Magic on First Take spilling the beans
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
governator wrote:


How much paycut are we talking about?
You think Lowry-Siakam-Ibaka-Van Fleet-Gasol is better than LeBron-BI-Ball-Kuz-Hart?
I don't know much about Vogel and Nurse has been great so I'll leave it at that


A pay cut of about $50M. For a guy with injury issues that could be very meaningful. In regards to talent, LeBron is 35 and the rest of the roster is a bit of a question mark. If Kawhi were to sign with the Lakers he wouldnt know who he would be playing with when the season started other than LeBron. Couple that with a rookie FO trying to learn on the job, who was part of the team that put together last year's disastrous coterie of signings. He could cross his fingers and hope they learned their lesson, but as you can see there's an awful lot of risky variables here.


5 yr $190m vs 4 yr $141m, I guess for injury security the diff is like you say $50m but yearly it's $38m vs $ $35.25m
As far as rosters, subjective, I do see ours (with adding Kawhi) superior than current Raptors'
FO, Masai Ujiri's moves look great so far, no argument there
I hope you're wrong Ocho, Kawhi-LBJ duo would be great even if LBJ is declining. We'll see
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.


Yes, and as Ocho posted, our FO didn’t even consider going after him. That is who is running our favorite team folks, which is why there is little optimism for our future.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.


Yes, and as Ocho posted, our FO didn’t even consider going after him. That is who is running our favorite team folks, which is why there is little optimism for our future.


Yup you have to respect Ujiri. He went all in, with essentially no backup plan if KL leaves - except a full on rebuild of course.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.


Yes, and as Ocho posted, our FO didn’t even consider going after him. That is who is running our favorite team folks, which is why there is little optimism for our future.


Yup you have to respect Ujiri. He went all in, with essentially no backup plan if KL leaves - except a full on rebuild of course.


But that's the thing with Ujiri: his plan before the trade was a full rebuild because everyone knew DD/Lowry was going nowhere after getting sonned by lebronto.

It was a shrewd and calculated risk: especially since it cost only DD and poeltl. If kawhi leaves then they start a rebuild like planned originally. They get out of DD's contract and with lowry being an expiring this offseason gives them plenty of flexibility to execute one. Poeltl wasn't much of a loss since they had JV at the time and there was no way they could play together. If kawhi worked out even for 1 year, well we see the results currently.

Simply put, it was a well thought out move by Ujiri. Meanwhile our FO were doing things like selling low for capspace they still haven't used to this day. This is why in someways I'd rather Laker's strike out and maybe force Jeanie to truly bring in people who know how to run a basketball team. Pelinka and the rest of the FO haven't shown that level of shrewdness when it comes to making moves. A max FA might just end up delaying their inevitable firings before it's too late.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Ujiri

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Ujiri immigrated to the United States to play two years of basketball at Bismarck State College, then transferred to Montana State University Billings, though he left the latter school after one semester. He spent six years playing professionally in Europe.[2] After ending a professional playing career in 2002, Ujiri worked as a youth coach in Nigeria.[3] During an NBA summer league game in Boston, he met David Thorpe, who eventually introduced him to college coaches.[4] In 2002, Ujiri was accompanying a young Nigerian player to a draft tryout in Orlando when he impressed Magic scouting director Gary Brokaw, who then introduced Ujiri to coach Doc Rivers and GM John Gabriel. Ujiri then became an unpaid scout for the NBA's Orlando Magic, paying his own way when he had to and sharing rooms with scouts or players when he could.[1]

Jeff Weltman, then a young executive with the Denver Nuggets, introduced Ujiri to Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe, who then hired Ujiri on salary as an international scout. After four seasons there, he was hired away by Bryan Colangelo of the Toronto Raptors as their Director of Global Scouting. Ujiri became the Raptors' assistant general manager in 2008,[4] and returned to the Nuggets in 2010, when he accepted his position as executive vice president in charge of basketball operations.[2][5][6] On May 31, 2013, Ujiri signed a 5-year, $15 million deal to become GM of the Toronto Raptors.[7] In 2013, he was named the NBA Executive of the Year for his work with the Nuggets, the only non-American ever to win the award.[8] On September 2, 2016 the Toronto Raptors extended Ujiri's contract as the team's president.[9]




I have seen Pelinka touted as being someone special with knowing the CBA, but there are others in the league that can hang with him.

Raptors Promote Bobby Webster To General Manager

Quote:

Webster joined the Raptors front office in 2013 as vice president, basketball management & strategy, and helped construct a roster that won three consecutive Atlantic Division titles (2013-14, 2014-15 and 2015-16) and back-to-back 50-win seasons for the first time in franchise history. The Raptors have compiled a 204-124 (.622) regular season record since 2013 – the best in the Eastern Conference the past four years.

Webster was promoted to assistant general manager / vice president, basketball strategy in September 2016. He came to the Raptors after working for the NBA league office in New York for the previous seven seasons in the NBA's CBA group.




Who is Toronto Raptors General Manager Bobby Webster?

Quote:

Webster instead focused on schooling. He enrolled at the University of California, majored in economics, and completed his degree in just three years.

Although Webster moved on from having a basketball career, he somehow found himself in the NBA. At just 21, he moved to Orlando and interviewed with executives from the Magic. He landed an entry-level position with the team, until the NBA’s head office in New York realized his potential.

In 2007, Webster became the league’s associate director of salary cap management and helped with the old Collective Bargaining Agreement. Webster familiarized himself with the intricacies of how the association dealt with player salaries along with its complex policies and regulations.

“I’ve always believed that my time in New York helped mold my mind as I assisted organizations in building their teams” – Webster

At just 26, Webster became a principal architect of the new CBA thanks to the 2011 NBA lockout. Once the strike ended, he became a hot commodity.

Several team execs looked to him to help them reconstruct their rosters. Among them was Ujiri, who was working with Denver. Webster helped the Nuggets and several other teams properly build a team.

When Ujiri took over the Raptors in 2013, he hired Webster to become the team’s new Vice President of Basketball Management and Strategy.




Nate Duncan Twitter

Quote:

Have heard Winger referred to as the man who knows the CBA best of anyone in the league



Pistons' Sachin Gupta creates a monster with 'Trade Machine'

Quote:

Pistons assistant general manager Sachin Gupta has plenty of experience with the Trade Machine — he created it in 2006 while working for ESPN. At the time, he had no idea that it would become as popular as it has.

“It was actually an idea that came from the NBA editor at ESPN, Chris Ramsey, the son of Dr. Jack Ramsey,” Gupta told The Detroit News. “He came to me with the idea and it was a side project from me; it didn’t come from my boss.

“It was a fun project that ended up being a big time-waster for a lot of (fans).”

Gupta, who has a bachelor’s degree in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering from MIT, said he spent a chunk of time trying to understand the CBA himself and devoted about a month writing the code for the Trade Machine. He said he used the actual CBA and some other resources, including Larry Coon’s CBA-FAQ, as baselines to understand the nuances.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That being said, I think we all knew a few things: his ego is huge, he was not going to be at the helm a long time, and he was not going to spend a ton of hours conducting business via his position (the guy has a ton of ventures going on). Magic was one of the three most powerful men in all of basketball (and he was able to sign the most powerful man and one of the best players in the game).


1. We did not all know those things about Magic. I have very clear memories of what people expected from Magic, because I was one of the people who was skeptical. I've been hearing a lot of revisionist history over the past couple months. I remember what many, if not most, people expected. Dr. Buss wanted Magic to run the Lakers, yada yada yada.

2. Magic is not, and has never been, one of the three most powerful men in basketball. He's probably not in the top 20, maybe not the top 50. Perhaps he thought he was powerful, but if so he got a rude lesson. He got slapped down pretty hard. Hell, if you believe his whiny story, he wasn't even one of the three most powerful people in the Lakers front office.

3. Magic is a self promoter. His product is himself. He and his allies will tell you all about what a brilliant businessman he is, but you never hear much in the way of details about the brilliant things he does. This is because his strength is his name, not his business acumen. Magic and Isiah Thomas are basically the same thing, except that Isiah was a lot more arrogant. Isiah tried to actually operate businesses, instead of just investing and selling his name. Magic was a lot smarter, but then he let his ego take control when Jeanie Buss asked him to help purge her brother. Suddenly, he had to produce results under media scrutiny. We know how that turned out.


Don't let your hatred of the man cloud your judgement.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That being said, I think we all knew a few things: his ego is huge, he was not going to be at the helm a long time, and he was not going to spend a ton of hours conducting business via his position (the guy has a ton of ventures going on). Magic was one of the three most powerful men in all of basketball (and he was able to sign the most powerful man and one of the best players in the game).


1. We did not all know those things about Magic. I have very clear memories of what people expected from Magic, because I was one of the people who was skeptical. I've been hearing a lot of revisionist history over the past couple months. I remember what many, if not most, people expected. Dr. Buss wanted Magic to run the Lakers, yada yada yada.

2. Magic is not, and has never been, one of the three most powerful men in basketball. He's probably not in the top 20, maybe not the top 50. Perhaps he thought he was powerful, but if so he got a rude lesson. He got slapped down pretty hard. Hell, if you believe his whiny story, he wasn't even one of the three most powerful people in the Lakers front office.

3. Magic is a self promoter. His product is himself. He and his allies will tell you all about what a brilliant businessman he is, but you never hear much in the way of details about the brilliant things he does. This is because his strength is his name, not his business acumen. Magic and Isiah Thomas are basically the same thing, except that Isiah was a lot more arrogant. Isiah tried to actually operate businesses, instead of just investing and selling his name. Magic was a lot smarter, but then he let his ego take control when Jeanie Buss asked him to help purge her brother. Suddenly, he had to produce results under media scrutiny. We know how that turned out.


Don't let your hatred of the man cloud your judgement.


That works both ways, you know.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That being said, I think we all knew a few things: his ego is huge, he was not going to be at the helm a long time, and he was not going to spend a ton of hours conducting business via his position (the guy has a ton of ventures going on). Magic was one of the three most powerful men in all of basketball (and he was able to sign the most powerful man and one of the best players in the game).


1. We did not all know those things about Magic. I have very clear memories of what people expected from Magic, because I was one of the people who was skeptical. I've been hearing a lot of revisionist history over the past couple months. I remember what many, if not most, people expected. Dr. Buss wanted Magic to run the Lakers, yada yada yada.

2. Magic is not, and has never been, one of the three most powerful men in basketball. He's probably not in the top 20, maybe not the top 50. Perhaps he thought he was powerful, but if so he got a rude lesson. He got slapped down pretty hard. Hell, if you believe his whiny story, he wasn't even one of the three most powerful people in the Lakers front office.

3. Magic is a self promoter. His product is himself. He and his allies will tell you all about what a brilliant businessman he is, but you never hear much in the way of details about the brilliant things he does. This is because his strength is his name, not his business acumen. Magic and Isiah Thomas are basically the same thing, except that Isiah was a lot more arrogant. Isiah tried to actually operate businesses, instead of just investing and selling his name. Magic was a lot smarter, but then he let his ego take control when Jeanie Buss asked him to help purge her brother. Suddenly, he had to produce results under media scrutiny. We know how that turned out.


Don't let your hatred of the man cloud your judgement.


Truth hurts
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.


Yes, and as Ocho posted, our FO didn’t even consider going after him. That is who is running our favorite team folks, which is why there is little optimism for our future.


Pretty sure your favorite team is supposed to be the clippers right about now.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject:

LBJ And Ball Talks about Magic

Kinda show how screwed up it was for Magic to step away all of the sudden.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
LBJ And Ball Talks about Magic

Kinda show how screwed up it was for Magic to step away all of the sudden.


Clearly they're both racists.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
LBJ And Ball Talks about Magic

Kinda show how screwed up it was for Magic to step away all of the sudden.


Dude...and that's about as nice as LeBron can be about it...Magic has entered the 'get off my lawn' years.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Magic has entered the 'get off my lawn' years.



Magic is a guy who is all smiles when things are going well, and a backstabbing "get off my lawn" type when they aren't. He's been that way since he entered the league, but no one notice in his early days because not too much went wrong.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DLaker wrote:
LBJ And Ball Talks about Magic

Kinda show how screwed up it was for Magic to step away all of the sudden.


Clearly they're both racists.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
lakers0505 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
ocho wrote:

Ujiri has been building contenders in the East for years despite being in a market nobody wants to play in. He's elite at what he does but he's not close friends with Jeanie so I'm sure they didn't even consider pursuing him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Toronto won the chip.


Yup, the man has done a great job in Toronto. Which must be crazy for me to admit since apparently I'm a racist.


Yes, and as Ocho posted, our FO didn’t even consider going after him. That is who is running our favorite team folks, which is why there is little optimism for our future.


Yup you have to respect Ujiri. He went all in, with essentially no backup plan if KL leaves - except a full on rebuild of course.


But that's the thing with Ujiri: his plan before the trade was a full rebuild because everyone knew DD/Lowry was going nowhere after getting sonned by lebronto.

It was a shrewd and calculated risk: especially since it cost only DD and poeltl. If kawhi leaves then they start a rebuild like planned originally. They get out of DD's contract and with lowry being an expiring this offseason gives them plenty of flexibility to execute one. Poeltl wasn't much of a loss since they had JV at the time and there was no way they could play together. If kawhi worked out even for 1 year, well we see the results currently.

Simply put, it was a well thought out move by Ujiri. Meanwhile our FO were doing things like selling low for capspace they still haven't used to this day. This is why in someways I'd rather Laker's strike out and maybe force Jeanie to truly bring in people who know how to run a basketball team. Pelinka and the rest of the FO haven't shown that level of shrewdness when it comes to making moves. A max FA might just end up delaying their inevitable firings before it's too late.


The other thing that Ujiri did that was pretty gutsy IMO was firing Dwayne Casey, who had a good record, and promoting Nick Nurse rather than going after a bigger name. To me, it suggests that Ujiri had a style of play he wanted and thought that Nurse could implement it.

Along with the Kawhi trade and finding other complementary players, these moves suggest that Ujiri had a view of what kind of offense and defense could be successful, the kind of coach that could implement it and the players that could run it. He then went out an acquired the necessary pieces. Seems a little more sophisticated than the sign two stars strategy.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DLaker wrote:
LBJ And Ball Talks about Magic

Kinda show how screwed up it was for Magic to step away all of the sudden.


Clearly they're both racists.

Bazinga!
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:55 am    Post subject:

Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel


Jesus Christ, the hammers come down from multiple places. If Magic thought ESPN would get on his side, lol, ESPN get on 'juicy story' side always. Even if this story is exaggerated, there's prob some truth to it. Magic doesn't look good, Pelinka doesn't look good and sounds like Magic/Rob had the green light to do everything including hiring/firing personnels... I mean, we need a new FO. New owner is debatable
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel


So that's the piece on Magic we knew was coming out

My conclusion is very simple: Jeanie sucks. She is the problem, she is the root. If Magic and Rob are bad, she put them there, based on emotion and "Laker connection".
She's not made for this job.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:40 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel


So that's the piece on Magic we knew was coming out

My conclusion is very simple: Jeanie sucks. She is the problem, she is the root. If Magic and Rob are bad, she put them there, based on emotion and "Laker connection".
She's not made for this job.


Yup. Remember that she didn't actually fire Magic, so him being gone can't be credited to her at all. Rob clearly should be gone as well. Before that, Jim and Mitch were pretty bad as well.

She's only opening these jobs for people she knows. She's getting key advice from Kurt and Linda Rambis, who have no business making front office decisions. Kurt is an awful head coach with no front office experience. I don't know what Linda's qualifications are.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject:

Japago wrote:
danzag wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel


So that's the piece on Magic we knew was coming out

My conclusion is very simple: Jeanie sucks. She is the problem, she is the root. If Magic and Rob are bad, she put them there, based on emotion and "Laker connection".
She's not made for this job.


Yup. Remember that she didn't actually fire Magic, so him being gone can't be credited to her at all. Rob clearly should be gone as well. Before that, Jim and Mitch were pretty bad as well.

She's only opening these jobs for people she knows. She's getting key advice from Kurt and Linda Rambis, who have no business making front office decisions. Kurt is an awful head coach with no front office experience. I don't know what Linda's qualifications are.


Linda's qualification on the basketball side are: none.
She's never played or worked with basketball in any capacity.

She's there because she's Jeanie's best friend.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject:

Maybe the 3rd Buss kid will be a charm.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:58 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Japago wrote:
danzag wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Great. The knives are coming out. Current and former Lakers employees talk about the Lakers front office.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26821790/lakers-20-failed-reboot-nba-crown-jewel


So that's the piece on Magic we knew was coming out

My conclusion is very simple: Jeanie sucks. She is the problem, she is the root. If Magic and Rob are bad, she put them there, based on emotion and "Laker connection".
She's not made for this job.


Yup. Remember that she didn't actually fire Magic, so him being gone can't be credited to her at all. Rob clearly should be gone as well. Before that, Jim and Mitch were pretty bad as well.

She's only opening these jobs for people she knows. She's getting key advice from Kurt and Linda Rambis, who have no business making front office decisions. Kurt is an awful head coach with no front office experience. I don't know what Linda's qualifications are.


Linda's qualification on the basketball side are: none.
She's never played or worked with basketball in any capacity.

She's there because she's Jeanie's best friend.


I crave stability at this point. The Lakers could hire a front office with zero rings, but have had consistently solid teams.

I believe the Lakers would have an advantage with their market and brand if they were at least ran solidly. But, they just haven't been able to get out of their own way.

It's really frustrating.
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject:

So Magic the Bully and Rob the liar
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