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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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 Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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I would say he was in the running for a top 5 defensive player standing..
I remember him being one of the few players to actually make Kobe uncomfortable on offense.. |
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Kobesystem
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Joined: 29 Dec 2018
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
*looks around the room*
Ricky Rubio is good
*quietly leaves the room* |
He is but nothing special. |
Rubio was definitely nice back in the day....
However, he plays pg in the halfcourt extremely well during the Minn days. Lonzo does not..... |
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LAL1947
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Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This.  I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobesystem wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
*looks around the room*
Ricky Rubio is good
*quietly leaves the room* |
He is but nothing special. |
Rubio was definitely nice back in the day....
However, he plays pg in the halfcourt extremely well during the Minn days. Lonzo does not..... |
By his second year?
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
I do not know what Lonzo will become for sure....my projection is probably a little lower than most on LG. I do believe if Lonzo was from Kalamazoo and played for Michigan State....his support among Laker fans would be a fraction of what it currently is today, but if that was his background, he would not have been drafted by the Lakers. I do not say that based on what I think of him, but no player on the Lakers has been given so much rope and blind faith. It is what it is...he is not the first guy that fans wear their hometown glasses when evaluating, nor will he be the last. |
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HellCrowe
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Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 304
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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It depends what we do with our draft pick. If it’s Darius Garland or another PG, I can see us saying bye to Lonzo. Maybe even pitch him to Chicago for their 7th and a player. Trade that for a player we need now.
Other than wowing on defense and play making, he’s had to take a major back seat to Ingram who I feel has the most potential of our young core and not to mention Lebron. If we get Kyrie that’s a done deal. Lonzo I feel has the potential as a playmaker that plays defense. However, look at the star PGs, they are great offensive threats. They hardly play great iso defense and learn team defense. If we need a defensive specialist we can get that somewhere else. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21455
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
Depends on what we get. Trading him for a Mozgov type would be bad. |
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HellCrowe
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Also forgot to mention we get rid of Magic’s mouth piece... Lavar. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | lonzobryant wrote: | | You guys are scared to trade him because of the mistake we made with D'Angelo. And I've learned that this board values defense over everything. I like Lonzo but he's Ricky Rubio at best. |
I do not know what Lonzo will become for sure....my projection is probably a little lower than most on LG. I do believe if Lonzo was from Kalamazoo and played for Michigan State....his support among Laker fans would be a fraction of what it currently is today, but if that was his background, he would not have been drafted by the Lakers. I do not say that based on what I think of him, but no player on the Lakers has been given so much rope and blind faith. It is what it is...he is not the first guy that fans wear their hometown glasses when evaluating, nor will he be the last. |
Come on man. You’re entitled to your opinion but don’t try and act like you’re objective and everybody else has blind faith. You don’t appreciate what he brings to the game, others do. He has contributed more to winning when he’s healthy than any other young guy on the roster. It’s not close, the team has been drastically worse when he’s out. Don’t convince yourself that it’s all bias, it’s not. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11753
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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After seeing how Kawhi changed the Bucks/Raptors series by being able to shut down Giannis one on one, I see the value in a defensive specialist. With that being said, I would only Lonzo for AD with the current available tradeable players on the market.
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HellCrowe
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | After seeing how Kawhi changed the Bucks/Raptors series by being able to shut down Giannis one on one, I see the value in a defensive specialist. With that being said, I would only Lonzo for AD with the current available tradeable players on the market. |
Kawhi is a top 5 player. He is the Toronto Raptors, offense and defense. He has turned it up another notch because he needs to be respected on both sides of the ball. Lonzo is a bigger guard who lacks footwork in the paint including a whack jump sho. I don’t think he’ll ever be able to use his size as an advantage. Defend yes. Offense... |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Unless we are to receive something super in return, it would not only be a mistake trading him, it would be flat out stupid. I've continued to reflect upon the Zubac trade so I won't put stupidity passed whose running things now.
Ball shot 41% from the three in his lone season at UCLA. He was a young kid coming in. The mistake would be not truly seeing what you've got in him before you pull the trigger. He has a real profound impact on games just DG.
Give him time to grow into his man body, so as to perhaps be able to stay on the court, and shoot better because of naturally added strength. If the Lakers feel that his development curve will take a bit longer than they want to allow because of the presence of James, then trade him. But no doubt they'll probably get far less now than he would fetch later as he matures. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
I agree, the most important part for Lonzo is staying healthy which will entail him hitting the weights and cleaning up his diet. Adding more core strength will help his finishing at the rim but he also needs heavy work on his footwork in the paint.
Only part of his shooting that worries me is his FTs. His shooting from other parts of the court showed improvement last season and I think he will get to an avg 3pt % this coming season.
He still has prime Jason Kidd potential. Hopefully Kidd will help Lonzo get there |
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calistrtballr
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 6352
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Not trading him or bi |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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YSong
Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | After seeing how Kawhi changed the Bucks/Raptors series by being able to shut down Giannis one on one, I see the value in a defensive specialist. With that being said, I would only Lonzo for AD with the current available tradeable players on the market. |
Difference is Kawhi also scoring 30/5/5 lol |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| HellCrowe wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | After seeing how Kawhi changed the Bucks/Raptors series by being able to shut down Giannis one on one, I see the value in a defensive specialist. With that being said, I would only Lonzo for AD with the current available tradeable players on the market. |
Kawhi is a top 5 player. He is the Toronto Raptors, offense and defense. He has turned it up another notch because he needs to be respected on both sides of the ball. Lonzo is a bigger guard who lacks footwork in the paint including a whack jump sho. I don’t think he’ll ever be able to use his size as an advantage. Defend yes. Offense... |
^^I personally can't stand the posts like the one above.
Just because he's an above average defender doesn't make him Kawhi.
Just because he's a good passer and not a very good shooter doesn't make him Draymond Green
Just because he's good in transition (and not much else) doesn't make him Jason Kidd.
The fact is, what he's shown in the first two years projects him to be a very good role player. Kawhi, nor Dray, nor Kidd were or are very good role players. They're bonafide stars who are elite on BOTH sides of the court.
Instead of seeing something in Lonzo that isn't there (now), let's start with hoping he becomes peak Ricky Rubio.
Last edited by The God Particle on Fri May 24, 2019 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The God Particle
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Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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No, his weaknesses didn't improve in year two.
He still can't drive. He still doesn't have a good enough half-court handle. He still has no shake. Still can't break down a defense, and because he doesn't have that skill (that most PGs do), he's still a very poor shot creator.
Still has no mid range game. And I'm not talking about mid-range jumpers. I'm taking floaters, shooting moving east, west, north or south. If he isn't getting to the basket (rare), he's taking a three...
Speaking of getting to the basket, still not very good with seeking, absorbing, or finishing with ANY type of contact. He's getting to the line 1 time a game. Think about that.... our starting PG who played 30 minutes a game, on average, was fouled in the act of shooting ONCE EVERY OTHER GAME!!!! Not once a game... once EVERY OTHER GAME.
Those things didn't improve from year 1 to 2.
If someone is going to say that his shooting %s improved marginally from year 1 to year 2....well then sure, ok, they did.
This is going to be a critical summer (if healthy) for Lonzo. He's got glaring weakness outside of shooting, and won't ever be what we all hope he becomes until he improves those. |
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Richcbt
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Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | The opinions expressed here are incredibly short sighted and lack the ability to perceive lessons learned from teams like Indiana and OKC.
Lonzo was beginning to improve his offensive flaws before his injury, and like Ingram and Kuzma, he needs time to gain his man strength which will stabilize his body, just like it did for Shaun Livingston. Unfortunately for Livingston, he was projected to be a star, but was so scrawny, he tore up his knee and the best part of his basketball future.
Anyone who ever paid attention to a child's growth can relate. It's summer time. Lonzo has no injuries. What do basketball players do when they get time? Those who are driven work to get better. Is he making rap videos all summer? With 5 healthy months to work on weaknesses including improving shooting, scoring opportunities and abilities, why should we not expect to see a better, more effective player next season? Do doubters know something the rest of us don't?
Someone mentioned Harden, the guy whose career is known for being worthless on D. In his one Final's appearance in OKC, he shot poorly and ownership didn't want to pay $4 mil in luxury tax for that guy. So he was traded for scraps, the most famous of which was Jeremy Lamb. Coincidentally, now that he has matured and gotten stronger, he's playing better D. Also, shaming/comparing a 2nd yr player for not getting to the ft line the way the seasoned vet does, who happens to be the best in the game at it, is just a cheap way to entertain yourself and those who buy into that reasoning. Keep laughing.
Kawhi and Giannis were defensive players who were undervalued at the draft but needed time to work, gain strength, and figure things out.
Indiana didn't have time to watch Kawhi grow because they were a pg away from competing with Miami. They made the "wise" choice to cut bait asap and trade the soon to be super star for George Hill. They lost to Lebron in 7, then their core, including PG13, split up. But at least they almost got there.
Sure, AD is a big name, but again we've learned nothing from history. Lebron is aging, AD wins nothing by himself and also has injury issues. But hey, we have assets to trade and have to make something happen, and it has to be right now. How does that work out historically? |
Thank you for expressing so well my opinions on Lonzo. He's a beast defensively, and if he stayed healthy would have a good chance to make All-NBA first defensive team as early as next year. You can bet he's working his butt off all summer on his shooting, as well as free throw shooting. I'd love to see him drive to the hoop more, and saw glimpses of him starting to do that last year. A little floater shot would be an awesome weapon for him, because he has great speed, as well as good hops, but just doesn't seem to hang in the air like the good closers do around the hoop. |
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ReaListik
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 6553
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | We cannot continue to play 4-on-5 offensively, and who in their right minds wants him at the FT line late in a close game?
I think he has great vision on both ends of the court and All-D potential . . . but his poor shooting and inability to finish may ultimately relegate him to being a 2nd unit player. |
Also can’t stay healthy
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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No, his weaknesses didn't improve in year two.
He still can't drive. He still doesn't have a good enough half-court handle. He still has no shake. Still can't break down a defense, and because he doesn't have that skill (that most PGs do), he's still a very poor shot creator.
Still has no mid range game. And I'm not talking about mid-range jumpers. I'm taking floaters, shooting moving east, west, north or south. If he isn't getting to the basket (rare), he's taking a three...
Speaking of getting to the basket, still not very good with seeking, absorbing, or finishing with ANY type of contact. He's getting to the line 1 time a game. Think about that.... our starting PG who played 30 minutes a game, on average, was fouled in the act of shooting ONCE EVERY OTHER GAME!!!! Not once a game... once EVERY OTHER GAME.
Those things didn't improve from year 1 to 2.
If someone is going to say that his shooting %s improved marginally from year 1 to year 2....well then sure, ok, they did.
This is going to be a critical summer (if healthy) for Lonzo. He's got glaring weakness outside of shooting, and won't ever be what we all hope he becomes until he improves those. |
Feel better now? |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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No, his weaknesses didn't improve in year two.
He still can't drive. He still doesn't have a good enough half-court handle. He still has no shake. Still can't break down a defense, and because he doesn't have that skill (that most PGs do), he's still a very poor shot creator.
Still has no mid range game. And I'm not talking about mid-range jumpers. I'm taking floaters, shooting moving east, west, north or south. If he isn't getting to the basket (rare), he's taking a three...
Speaking of getting to the basket, still not very good with seeking, absorbing, or finishing with ANY type of contact. He's getting to the line 1 time a game. Think about that.... our starting PG who played 30 minutes a game, on average, was fouled in the act of shooting ONCE EVERY OTHER GAME!!!! Not once a game... once EVERY OTHER GAME.
Those things didn't improve from year 1 to 2.
If someone is going to say that his shooting %s improved marginally from year 1 to year 2....well then sure, ok, they did.
This is going to be a critical summer (if healthy) for Lonzo. He's got glaring weakness outside of shooting, and won't ever be what we all hope he becomes until he improves those. |
Feel better now? |
As a matter of fact I do. Not sure how you knew I woke up feeling a little feverish, but thanks for asking. |
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LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's see how he does with his first full summer to train? |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: |
LONZO HAS TO GET BETTER - and it's not a "natural progression" get better. He has to work his ass off or he's going to join the long list of players whose physical tools couldn't overcome a lack of skill and subsequently foundered in the NBA. |
This. I think we should give him the time to work his ass off though... before giving up on him. He's still only two years in the league. |
His weaknesses all improved in year two(aside from FT%) and are things that players generally naturally improve throughout their careers. He doesn’t need some outlier growth like people insinuate. He just needs to stay healthy more than anything. |
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No, his weaknesses didn't improve in year two.
He still can't drive. He still doesn't have a good enough half-court handle. He still has no shake. Still can't break down a defense, and because he doesn't have that skill (that most PGs do), he's still a very poor shot creator.
Still has no mid range game. And I'm not talking about mid-range jumpers. I'm taking floaters, shooting moving east, west, north or south. If he isn't getting to the basket (rare), he's taking a three...
Speaking of getting to the basket, still not very good with seeking, absorbing, or finishing with ANY type of contact. He's getting to the line 1 time a game. Think about that.... our starting PG who played 30 minutes a game, on average, was fouled in the act of shooting ONCE EVERY OTHER GAME!!!! Not once a game... once EVERY OTHER GAME.
Those things didn't improve from year 1 to 2.
If someone is going to say that his shooting %s improved marginally from year 1 to year 2....well then sure, ok, they did.
This is going to be a critical summer (if healthy) for Lonzo. He's got glaring weakness outside of shooting, and won't ever be what we all hope he becomes until he improves those. |
Feel better now? |
As a matter of fact I do. Not sure how you knew I woke up feeling a little feverish, but thanks for asking. |
Hopefully we can get a late 2nd rounder for him? But with all those flaws, can we? |
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