Official: KD with Achilles Injury
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trablos
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
That seems about right. But KD wanted to play. You can’t control for everything. It’s an unfortunate thing no doubt, just dont get the need for the blame game even tho I get it on the internet thats what we do.


Blame game is played all the time when front offices take risks and they backfire. Don't know why this should be any different. Magic got torched to no end for taking a risk and striking out in free agency and trades.

Sure KD wanted to play. Klay wanted to play game 3. But GS brass wouldn't let him. So the whole, "they couldn't control KD" narrative is BS. They literally held out a guy who wanted to play 2 games prior.

The narrative is certainly changing. For the first time in a while, GS has not looked like the best team in a finals matchup and were a hair away from getting knocked off. Dubs fans were desperate for help and knew KD instantly changes the flow of the series and now that the unfortunate happened, are going back and blaming the FO as if they knew this would happen all along.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject:

Prior to tip-off, ESPN’s Doris Burke reported that Kerr told her the team has no long-term concerns for Durant or fears of an Achilles injury. He only said Durant could possibly “tweak” the calf injury.

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/steve-kerr-told-kevin-durant-could-only-tweak-injury/499615
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject:

I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Increase in pace + defense + running actions that require bursts in first steps or change in direction.

While pace was high in the past, the game has never been more athletically demanding as it's been now, especially for larger players being so mobile.

Kobe went down like 2 or 3 times that game. It was clearly overexertion from his absurd MPG. He likely had some calf strain he was playing through, diagnosed or not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


I think the speed of the game has a lot to do with it as well as over working the body.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Prior to tip-off, ESPN’s Doris Burke reported that Kerr told her the team has no long-term concerns for Durant or fears of an Achilles injury. He only said Durant could possibly “tweak” the calf injury.

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/steve-kerr-told-kevin-durant-could-only-tweak-injury/499615

Very damning.

I'm not a doctor, so I have zero professional expertise, but the whole idea of " you can't get 'more' hurt" seems like bullsh!t.

Some injuries are safer than others, but others aren't.

At the very least your body is always more susceptible to more injuries when playing while injured because it is over-compensating.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject:

Players are much more athletic these days. Also we have 7 footers playing like point guards these days.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:28 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
kikanga wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
That seems about right. But KD wanted to play. You can’t control for everything. It’s an unfortunate thing no doubt, just dont get the need for the blame game even tho I get it on the internet thats what we do.


Blame game is played all the time when front offices take risks and they backfire. Don't know why this should be any different. Magic got torched to no end for taking a risk and striking out in free agency and trades.

Sure KD wanted to play. Klay wanted to play game 3. But GS brass wouldn't let him. So the whole, "they couldn't control KD" narrative is BS. They literally held out a guy who wanted to play 2 games prior.

The narrative is certainly changing. For the first time in a while, GS has not looked like the best team in a finals matchup and were a hair away from getting knocked off. Dubs fans were desperate for help and knew KD instantly changes the flow of the series and now that the unfortunate happened, are going back and blaming the FO as if they knew this would happen all along.


If someone wants to say Durant is to blame. Sure, that's fair. But this is a blame pie situation. Multiple responsible parties. And if anyone argues the FO is blameless, they are being asinine.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Increase in pace + defense + running actions that require bursts in first steps or change in direction.

While pace was high in the past, the game has never been more athletically demanding as it's been now, especially for larger players being so mobile.

Kobe went down like 2 or 3 times that game. It was clearly overexertion from his absurd MPG. He likely had some calf strain he was playing through, diagnosed or not.


He couldn’t even backpedal on defense prior to the injury,
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


All those players including Wesley Matthews and Elton Brand tore their achilles wearing Nikes.

Just Saying.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s


but you didn't have to cover the 3pt line every possession and make half as many rotations/closeouts
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s


but you didn't have to cover the 3pt line every possession and make half as many rotations/closeouts


The game is not that much more demanding today. I would say the propensity for tendon tears recently is because of what the article states: usage of corticosteroids, or anabolic steroids, or fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The NBA PED testing is a joke but also these guys are given corticosteroids for inflammation or fluoroquinolones for respiratory or urinary tract infections. These weren't as common in the league 20-25 years ago.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s


but you didn't have to cover the 3pt line every possession and make half as many rotations/closeouts


The game is not that much more demanding today. I would say the propensity for tendon tears recently is because of what the article states: usage of corticosteroids, or anabolic steroids, or fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The NBA PED testing is a joke but also these guys are given corticosteroids for inflammation or fluoroquinolones for respiratory or urinary tract infections. These weren't as common in the league 20-25 years ago.


This.

Corticosteroids thin tissue and inhibit the inflammatory response which is the initiation of a 7 part wound repair sequence that involves the immune system.

Do that repeatedly and the wear and tear adds up.

Healing takes time for cellular regeneration and replication and a (bleep) ton of Vitmain C, Silica, Proline, and Mitochondrial Nutrients...cant repair tissue without them.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject:

Call me old school, and I understand this might be an unpopular opinion, but this sissy bs that kd had all these influencing factors pushing him to play including the team not having held him out against his will like they did with klay, to me is reflective of a culture that enables a lack of personal accountability and lack of personal independence. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink. At the end of the day, no matter how many influencing factors there *potentially* were influencing kd to play hurt, he made his own choice, which ultimately means the person at fault is ultimately himself. Unless he was put out on that court against his will and either physically forced, coerced or otherwise threatened, I think as far as blame goes, it starts and ends with kd.

This is not to say there isn't an issue that needs to be addressed regarding how injured players are managed in order to be more sensitive and accommodating to the players, however I believe this issue is not one in reference to who should be held responsible for a player whom decides to play knowingly hurt, but a separate issue regarding a players responsibility to himself, career, and health.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:20 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s


but you didn't have to cover the 3pt line every possession and make half as many rotations/closeouts


The game is not that much more demanding today. I would say the propensity for tendon tears recently is because of what the article states: usage of corticosteroids, or anabolic steroids, or fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The NBA PED testing is a joke but also these guys are given corticosteroids for inflammation or fluoroquinolones for respiratory or urinary tract infections. These weren't as common in the league 20-25 years ago.


This.

Corticosteroids thin tissue and inhibit the inflammatory response which is the initiation of a 7 part wound repair sequence that involves the immune system.

Do that repeatedly and the wear and tear adds up.

Healing takes time for cellular regeneration and replication and a (bleep) ton of Vitmain C, Silica, Proline, and Mitochondrial Nutrients...cant repair tissue without them.


Unintended consequences.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject:

I think the increase of injuries is because at a very young age these guys choose one sport and only play and train for that one sport, thus creating a constant wear and tear on the same muscles and joints year round and year after year.

When I was young we played 3 different sports a year each demanding a different use of muscles and joints. I dont think these guys cross train as much thus we see the break down of muscles, tendons and joints more often
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I recall the argument for how players today benefit from modern medicine, than players in the past, but how can that explain so many achilles tears? Bryant (2013), Gay (2017), Cousins (2018), Durant (2019), etc., and not to mention football players. The players in the past played at a faster pace as well (hence the astronomical rebound numbers)

Where is the advanced statistic to prevent this, like a pitch count in baseball? We can call it a twitch count, how often a player makes a quick twitch move.


PED usage: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408535_4

The pace of the game was faster in the 80s


but you didn't have to cover the 3pt line every possession and make half as many rotations/closeouts


The game is not that much more demanding today. I would say the propensity for tendon tears recently is because of what the article states: usage of corticosteroids, or anabolic steroids, or fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The NBA PED testing is a joke but also these guys are given corticosteroids for inflammation or fluoroquinolones for respiratory or urinary tract infections. These weren't as common in the league 20-25 years ago.


This.

Corticosteroids thin tissue and inhibit the inflammatory response which is the initiation of a 7 part wound repair sequence that involves the immune system.

Do that repeatedly and the wear and tear adds up.

Healing takes time for cellular regeneration and replication and a (bleep) ton of Vitmain C, Silica, Proline, and Mitochondrial Nutrients...cant repair tissue without them.


Thanks for a good breakdown on the negatives of these drugs. What are the positives that players are looking for by taking them?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:52 am    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
I think the increase of injuries is because at a very young age these guys choose one sport and only play and train for that one sport, thus creating a constant wear and tear on the same muscles and joints year round and year after year.

When I was young we played 3 different sports a year each demanding a different use of muscles and joints. I dont think these guys cross train as much thus we see the break down of muscles, tendons and joints more often


This is an interesting take. I was just listening to a podcast with author David Epstein who wrote a book - Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World - and he goes over this specifically. That early specialization in one sport can actually be a hindrance, and that a child can reap far more athletic benefits from playing multiple sports and then specializing in one later one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject:

Could style of play - e.g., so many isolation plays that require a explosive first step - be the cause of what we're seeing with these achilles injuries?

I didn't really see too much b-ball from 20+ years ago but wasn't there a lot more movement and team ball so one guy wasn't having to issue in the same manner that Kobe and KD did when they blew their achilles? Plus back then it was more of a big man's league and they move quite differently than wings.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject:

Michael Thompson is a big proponent of multiple sport play. Heard him once or twice mention he wouldn't touch basketball in the off season except for a few things to work on and would play other things.

As for the prepomdemce of injuries, it isnt a sports thing, it's s generational thing. Awhile back I read an article stating that army basic was setting a ton of injuries in 18 and 19 year olds that you would commonly associate with people in their 40s. The major drop in testosterone levels between generations almost certainly plays a factor as well. Despite all this technical knowledge of diet and exercise today it can't stop factors (only hope to stem) that are affecting all people.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject:

Sojo wrote:
Michael Thompson is a big proponent of multiple sport play. Heard him once or twice mention he wouldn't touch basketball in the off season except for a few things to work on and would play other things.

As for the prepomdemce of injuries, it isnt a sports thing, it's s generational thing. Awhile back I read an article stating that army basic was setting a ton of injuries in 18 and 19 year olds that you would commonly associate with people in their 40s. The major drop in testosterone levels between generations almost certainly plays a factor as well. Despite all this technical knowledge of diet and exercise today it can't stop factors (only hope to stem) that are affecting all people.


The bolded is especially interesting and something I have not heard before. Can you elaborate?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject:

kobeandgary wrote:

Disagree, if Durant wants to play he absolutely should be allowed to play.


Really? Because that's not the approach the team took with Klay.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject:

LAII wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:

Disagree, if Durant wants to play he absolutely should be allowed to play.


Really? Because that's not the approach the team took with Klay.


Klay was still limping in the game he returned - 2nd half of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

Stephen A smith just said the Lakers could be the biggest beneficiaries of Durant going down. If you were thinking of teaming up with him...he’ll be out half of next season if not the whole season. He may never be the same. Why not consider Lebron, LA, palm trees and good weather instead!
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