I'm looking for anyone who doesn't want to trade Zo, Hart, Kuz, and BI.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
If the Lakers walk away from the negotiation table, what would NO do then besides be stuck? They would freak out as the deadline nears while we threaten to draft our own player at #4. NO has no leverage.


Not safe to assume there would not (or is not) a surprise team and trade out there. Pelicans have a damn good player they are needing to trade. I just disagree with trading away so much as the solution to James’ short timeline.

Just read an article this morning about the logic of the Nuggets trading for Davis and take the same chance that TOR/ OKC just took. At worst a one year title run. At best Davis considers re-signing with a team he might not have even given a free agent mtg.

Iirc it was Davis, Moore, Okafor for Morris, Porter Jr., Plummer, Beasley,Barton, 2021 1st. Outlines compelling reasons for both teams. Including a formation of a Big Three of Jokic, Murray and Davis. With Davis as the old man.

My point being that Pels will have offers. Just depends on which they consider best and what teams (especially the Lakers) will consider smart or acceptable for their team.
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BlackStarMamba
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:34 pm    Post subject:

Lakers sure do like to get rid of talent

Julius Randle 24, and DLo 22 averaged 21 pts per game on their teams.

all of the scoring leaders in the top 50, 25 years old or under, everyone is on their original team except Dwinwiddie, Zach Lavine, Randle, DLO.

The are 22 players in the top 50 scoring that are under 25

#50 scoring leader in the nba average 16 pts per game

if we trade Kuz and Ingram that would be 4 players from one team (that YOU drafted and developed per say) in the top 50 scoring that you traded away.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject:

BlackStarMamba wrote:
Lakers sure do like to get rid of talent

Julius Randle 24, and DLo 22 averaged 21 pts per game on their teams.

all of the scoring leaders in the top 50, 25 years old or under, everyone is on their original team except Dwinwiddie, Zach Lavine, Randle, DLO.

The are 22 players in the top 50 scoring that are under 25

#50 scoring leader in the nba average 16 pts per game

if we trade Kuz and Ingram that would be 4 players from one team (that YOU drafted and developed per say) in the top 50 scoring that you traded away.


Thomas Bryant was 2nd in the league in FG%

Don't forget him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject:

My issue goes back to judging players specifically drafted as part of a rebuilding multi year process then be surprised when they suddenly don’t “fit” the new win now plan.

The FO chose to draft the 19 year old one and done players. The expectations were development and growth into professional bodies, skills and mentality. They get three quarters of the way to the goal and then dramatically change the plan and complain they are not impacting enough compared to players with 2-3 years or more experience.

What would be the expectations of the quality of a meal if you were invited to your chefs house for a five course meal. You know it will take 3 hours for the meal to be prepared. You show up an hour early, expect to be served immediately because you need to leave soon and then complain about the undercooked meat and the Wendy’s ice cream cup the chef was forced to go buy instead of whatever dessert he had planned.

Sometimes life can be simple but we try to make it so complicated. This season has been fascinating to watch the dysfunction and illogical expectations. Frustrating but fascinating to see what happens next!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
BlackStarMamba wrote:
Lakers sure do like to get rid of talent

Julius Randle 24, and DLo 22 averaged 21 pts per game on their teams.

all of the scoring leaders in the top 50, 25 years old or under, everyone is on their original team except Dwinwiddie, Zach Lavine, Randle, DLO.

The are 22 players in the top 50 scoring that are under 25

#50 scoring leader in the nba average 16 pts per game

if we trade Kuz and Ingram that would be 4 players from one team (that YOU drafted and developed per say) in the top 50 scoring that you traded away.


Thomas Bryant was 2nd in the league in FG%

Don't forget him.


I get why we traded DLO and up to this year he did literally nothing to make us even contemplate regretting that move...and even then our return on him has been excellent (LBJ & Kuz).

Letting Jules and TB walk for nothing was what birdbrained loudmouths stuck on their own massive egos do right before they quit.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject:

Based on KD and Klay going down, I'm predicting an All-Star bid for BI next year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject:

Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in the league.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
If the Lakers walk away from the negotiation table, what would NO do then besides be stuck? They would freak out as the deadline nears while we threaten to draft our own player at #4. NO has no leverage.


....exactly!

Pelicans greed got them into a mess...and now they have a major problem!

No FO is going to gut their current team and trade away their future for a player telling everyone he is walking to LA after next season. That gives significant leverage to the Lakers and they would be stupid not to use it and roll the dice.

If I am the Lakers... I am offering the Pelicans Ingram, Hart, #4 overall, 2021 1st Rd pick and fillers.

I'm keeping Ball and Kuzma.

Lets see which team offers a better package for a one year rental.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in the league.


Contrary to popular pedagogy, top tier defense and efficient 2 point offense (especially point in the paint) actually CAN win in a 3 point happy league..
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Jocker wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in the league.


Contrary to popular pedagogy, top tier defense and efficient 2 point offense (especially point in the paint) actually CAN win in a 3 point happy league..


You still need spacing. And that team doesnt have a whole lot. Actually none.

We cant even say for sure the 2pt efficiency would be there without spacing.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in the league.


Contrary to popular pedagogy, top tier defense and efficient 2 point offense (especially point in the paint) actually CAN win in a 3 point happy league..


You still need spacing. And that team doesnt have a whole lot. Actually none.

We cant even say for sure the 2pt efficiency would be there without spacing.


They actually used to drive to the basket and get open shots before the three point line was added.

They used movement, screens and passing. Played as a team.

Spacing is more important for todays ISO basketball where one guy dominates the ball as the shooters sit around the perimeter waiting for a pass.

Lakers need shooters to fit the ISO guy. Unfortunately the offense becomes less efficient when he leaves the floor and the rest of the players need to adapt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject:

TRADE THEM ALL
geezus
no time to get attached here. get the guys you need to carry the woefully incompetant, but famous, lebron to the finals. this means stars NOW. which means bye bye to everyone because they aint that good. those of you that want to feel like a nice family and win 40 games....eh. gimme the mercenaries now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
If the Lakers walk away from the negotiation table, what would NO do then besides be stuck? They would freak out as the deadline nears while we threaten to draft our own player at #4. NO has no leverage.


Not safe to assume there would not (or is not) a surprise team and trade out there. Pelicans have a damn good player they are needing to trade. I just disagree with trading away so much as the solution to James’ short timeline.

Just read an article this morning about the logic of the Nuggets trading for Davis and take the same chance that TOR/ OKC just took. At worst a one year title run. At best Davis considers re-signing with a team he might not have even given a free agent mtg.

Iirc it was Davis, Moore, Okafor for Morris, Porter Jr., Plummer, Beasley,Barton, 2021 1st. Outlines compelling reasons for both teams. Including a formation of a Big Three of Jokic, Murray and Davis. With Davis as the old man.

My point being that Pels will have offers. Just depends on which they consider best and what teams (especially the Lakers) will consider smart or acceptable for their team.


let them and hope its the celtics..does anyone gamble here?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
TRADE THEM ALL
geezus
no time to get attached here. get the guys you need to carry the woefully incompetant, but famous, lebron to the finals. this means stars NOW. which means bye bye to everyone because they aint that good. those of you that want to feel like a nice family and win 40 games....eh. gimme the mercenaries now.


HI MAGIC! YOU STILL SELLING THEM VCR TAPES OF HOW TO PLAY BASKETBALL.?..cause you SUCKED as a POB.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
If the Lakers walk away from the negotiation table, what would NO do then besides be stuck? They would freak out as the deadline nears while we threaten to draft our own player at #4. NO has no leverage.


....exactly!

Pelicans greed got them into a mess...and now they have a major problem!

No FO is going to gut their current team and trade away their future for a player telling everyone he is walking to LA after next season. That gives significant leverage to the Lakers and they would be stupid not to use it and roll the dice.

If I am the Lakers... I am offering the Pelicans Ingram, Hart, #4 overall, 2021 1st Rd pick and fillers.

I'm keeping Ball and Kuzma.

Lets see which team offers a better package for a one year rental.


I LIKE THIS BUT IF I GIVE THEM MY 2021 THEY NOT GETTIN THAT #4..WORKED HARD FOR THAT #4 LOL
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in the league.


Contrary to popular pedagogy, top tier defense and efficient 2 point offense (especially point in the paint) actually CAN win in a 3 point happy league..


You still need spacing. And that team doesnt have a whole lot. Actually none.

We cant even say for sure the 2pt efficiency would be there without spacing.


They actually used to drive to the basket and get open shots before the three point line was added.

They used movement, screens and passing. Played as a team.

Spacing is more important for todays ISO basketball where one guy dominates the ball as the shooters sit around the perimeter waiting for a pass.

Lakers need shooters to fit the ISO guy. Unfortunately the offense becomes less efficient when he leaves the floor and the rest of the players need to adapt


That was also when zone defense was prohibited I believe. Anyway, I'm just saying you can't get a bunch of 2pt players, put them together, and expect they'll be able to produce as efficiently as they did when they were on teams that offered them spacing.

Maybe it could work, I'm not saying it definitely can't, but I don't believe it can and I think there's a pretty valid argument that it couldn't.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:48 am    Post subject:

Keep the hope alive
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject:

Lakers should be patient! It’s no easy to stock up those young talents. We shouldn’t give too much for any player, especially when we still have room to land a max player.

LBJ, max, Ingram, Kuzma, Ball should be good enough to compete, if not dominate, with right coaches. And we could try the #4 for a very good 6th man. Young player Siakam is really a factor in the Raptors’ champion run. We should be patient
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject:

You need depth to win. The Raptors needed Vanvleet/Ibaka; Mavs had JJ Barea/Jason Terry play out of their minds that one year; Lakers had D-Fish/Horry/B-Shaw/Odom, etc.; Warriors had Igoudala and Livingston.

We're going to lose a ton of depth if we trade 3 of the core and the #4. Maybe Bonga/Wagner will work out and maybe we can sign some 1 year vets who can contribute but Lebron/AD can't play 40 minutes/game.

The way I see it: we only have to be good enough to beat Houston/Nuggets/Blazers. We've beaten those teams last season without another max free agent. If we add a Tobias Harris/Khris Middleton and keep the #4, the current team can win the West as constituted (as long as Lonzo/BI) stays healthy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in a 3 point shooting league.


Edited for emphasis
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
If the Lakers walk away from the negotiation table, what would NO do then besides be stuck? They would freak out as the deadline nears while we threaten to draft our own player at #4. NO has no leverage.


....exactly!

Pelicans greed got them into a mess...and now they have a major problem!

No FO is going to gut their current team and trade away their future for a player telling everyone he is walking to LA after next season. That gives significant leverage to the Lakers and they would be stupid not to use it and roll the dice.

If I am the Lakers... I am offering the Pelicans Ingram, Hart, #4 overall, 2021 1st Rd pick and fillers.

I'm keeping Ball and Kuzma.

Lets see which team offers a better package for a one year rental.



Why offer that much when we are essentially competing against ourselves??
Davis is a proven star and Kuz Ingram and ball are potentially good but I still don't think Davis alone can out produce the 3 of those guys.
I'm not reading for Davis and gutting my roster, with the injuries to the warriors we can compete in the west with our own young guys while adding a guy like Garland or culver with the number 4 pick. Stand pat plus some team will still make a move for Davis even if he says he won't resign with them it worked out for okc and paul and Leonard and Toronto.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
TRADE THEM ALL
geezus
no time to get attached here. get the guys you need to carry the woefully incompetant, but famous, lebron to the finals. this means stars NOW. which means bye bye to everyone because they aint that good. those of you that want to feel like a nice family and win 40 games....eh. gimme the mercenaries now.


And win 40 games and feel like a dysfunctional family
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
Toronto winning should preach patience:

Lonzo < Lowry
Butler > Green
LBJ = Kawhi
Ingram = Siakam
McGee/Lopez < Gasol/Ibaka

(+#4, Kuzma, Hart)

Not that far off if they just continue to build as opposed to gutting the team for a “name brand” superstar...


Best 2pt shooting team in a 3 point shooting league.


Edited for emphasis


I wasn’t commenting on rostering win/loss vis a vis a championship, just asset management. Best 2 point shooting team at least is in the playoff discussion- the Lakers were not.

It is indeed a 3 point shooting league to compete for a championship, but my point was that the Lakers first needed to develop a legitimate competitive roster (developing depth and defense) and then make incremental moves rather than gutting the team for superstars and rounded out with mismatched ring chasers.

Much like Houston, that philosophy MIGHT get one championship then it it blows up due to either player age or player salary demands...Seems to me the window is much longer/real with a “develop + add” philosophy like the Warriors were able to do..

Now, whether or not the Lakers currently have pieces that are worth building upon is different argument..
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject:

^ The problem with your roster is that other than McGee, everyone else is likely holding their position so how do you ever get to a point where you improve the shooting?

The issue with your argument is that it takes a very simplistic and binary player vs player approach which doesnt work in a team game.

Lebron with spacers > Lebron with lane cloggers

So maybe Lebron = Kawhi but you give Kawhi a better complementary team that maximizes his skills and Kawhi > Lebron if you give Lebron lane cloggers and ISo players.
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