Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Actually pace does matter, as you have to maximize the players on your roster. Playing the right pace also helps improve your efficiency.
For us to maximize our offensive efficiency with the players we have, we need to keep playing fast.
Playing with a purpose is far more important than keeping up with some sort of analytic driven pace. Part of the reason why the NBA is now a glorified AAU League is because Pace really is code for "Run and Chuck". _________________ “There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee
Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Obviously the comment touched some nerves with a couple of us “old guys”.
Don't stop at the 80s. Remember the 72 Lakers avg over 120 pts a night. Those NBA dinosaurs West, Goodrich and Happy Hairston could run a fast break.
My initial comment was the Lakers emphasis will not be to push the pace as it was a couple years ago with a young roster built to run and a HC teaching it. Not sure how that translated into the Pistons or extreme slow down style of play .
Now the Lakers are not built push the pace as other teams. Of course they will run when possible. We will still get the James and Davis monster trailing dunks. But this is a team better suited to take advantage of half court mid-matches then trying to run. Predict pace in low teens. Agree the key will be efficiency and the ability to enthusiastically defend.
Really happy with his press conference. He showed big amount of confidence and his answers related to Lakers organization are encouraging as well. The fact that he was consulted about the players and that he has support from FO to play PF position shows how good relation is between him and FO.
Really happy with his press conference. He showed big amount of confidence and his answers related to Lakers organization are encouraging as well. The fact that he was consulted about the players and that he has support from FO to play PF position shows how good relation is between him and FO.
I also liked that he knew the roster only has 14 players on it currently and not 15. It's a small detail, but it shows to me he's tuned into the roster and wasn't just rattling off the stock answer of 15 players on a roster by default.
Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Obviously the comment touched some nerves with a couple of us “old guys”.
Don't stop at the 80s. Remember the 72 Lakers avg over 120 pts a night. Those NBA dinosaurs West, Goodrich and Happy Hairston could run a fast break.
My initial comment was the Lakers emphasis will not be to push the pace as it was a couple years ago with a young roster built to run and a HC teaching it. Not sure how that translated into the Pistons or extreme slow down style of play .
Now the Lakers are not built push the pace as other teams. Of course they will run when possible. We will still get the James and Davis monster trailing dunks. But this is a team better suited to take advantage of half court mid-matches then trying to run. Predict pace in low teens. Agree the key will be efficiency and the ability to enthusiastically defend.
As much as I hate to give them props, the early/mid-80s Celtics were a perfect example of what this Lakers team should be. They ran the FB when it was there, but mostly killed teams with a highly efficient half court offense. It was front court heavy, with a unicorn point forward, an impossible-to-guard PF and a gimpy old C who put up 18/10 like clockwork. They kept turnovers low by having a slower pace than most teams, but executed well and they also MURDERED teams at the FT line. When teams packed the paint (out of necessity), the smalls would drain wide open jumpers and the only things that stopped them were injuries and a Lakers team that featured 2 of the GOATs at their positions. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:11 am Post subject:
Received a PM a week back (my bad, new job+traveling, etc) and I think it was from this thread so I'll just put a response to it.
This is about AD vs Giannis and my preference for AD.
It is a wings/perimeter game. This actually a running argument on twitter right now, but I don't even want to ruin my TL with bad thought processes to people I think aren't as open minded.
A few things. A separation of skill vs. archetype. Giannis was bred as a point forward since Greece, even without a jumpshot. But he doesn't really have an advanced handle for a wing. He doesn't necessarily make advanced reads constantly, because he opts for an easier escape pass with his playmaking. Everything is one pass away.
But if you step back, who is the most wing-like center in the league? I'd argue it's AD. Like Giannis, both guys flash the in-out dribble, crossover, and sometimes both in combination when attacking defenders off the dribble. The difference here is the perception in archetype. AD does it in close quarters mostly, when he's Iso'd 17' and in. Giannis, gets it at the top of the key. So, who is the wing? To me, it's both. The difference is just the operating space.
Then there's shooting. To me, the answer is obvious between AD in Giannis there.
Defense? AD is the better interior defender and Giannis is REALLY close. But Giannis is a tier better perimeter defender. Doesn't mean AD is bad, he's still above average defensively, but Giannis just defends PGs and wings better.
To me, the real difference here is how they were raised in the NBA. Coaches don't usually take guards with growth spurts and leave them at wing/guard unless they don't have the size. See Kevin Durant. But the advantages are inherent with putting guard skills with 5 size in the front line. It's the modern NBA. Put up as many guard skills as possible.
It's also why Giannis has operated more as a 4/5 during the playoffs. He's playing up a position, because his playmaking and shooting aren't enough to compensate for adding another guard onto the floor.
Frankly, I think Giannis is an elite player. But in regards to specific skills, he's overrated. Overrated as a ball-handler because it's just a tick above average for a wing, but it's still a crossover into a straight line drive or an in-out dribble into a straight line drive. That's why BOS is able to stop him. He has no counter for that until he puts his back to the basket when there's a wall at the rim. Then he doesn't have the respect/gravity of an outside shooter, certainly not to ADs level.
Giannis is the cheat code, where he doesn't have to opt for a 2nd change of direction usually, because of his stride length and explosiveness to the hoop. Against BOS, that space to explode to the hoop is eliminated, and non-elite athletes like Al Horford that absorb chest bumps well and move well laterally, neutralize Giannis' game.
Giannis is a power attacker to the hoop. But his secondary and other tertiary skills aren't enough to gain the respect of defenses where he can open up his attack game.
AD, is an elite finisher. He's more of a finesse attacker off the drive. He's a better shooter. Better assortment of complementary skills to go open up what he does best, finishing at the rim. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Received a PM a week back (my bad, new job+traveling, etc) and I think it was from this thread so I'll just put a response to it.
This is about AD vs Giannis and my preference for AD.
It is a wings/perimeter game. This actually a running argument on twitter right now, but I don't even want to ruin my TL with bad thought processes to people I think aren't as open minded.
A few things. A separation of skill vs. archetype. Giannis was bred as a point forward since Greece, even without a jumpshot. But he doesn't really have an advanced handle for a wing. He doesn't necessarily make advanced reads constantly, because he opts for an easier escape pass with his playmaking. Everything is one pass away.
But if you step back, who is the most wing-like center in the league? I'd argue it's AD. Like Giannis, both guys flash the in-out dribble, crossover, and sometimes both in combination when attacking defenders off the dribble. The difference here is the perception in archetype. AD does it in close quarters mostly, when he's Iso'd 17' and in. Giannis, gets it at the top of the key. So, who is the wing? To me, it's both. The difference is just the operating space.
Then there's shooting. To me, the answer is obvious between AD in Giannis there.
Defense? AD is the better interior defender and Giannis is REALLY close. But Giannis is a tier better perimeter defender. Doesn't mean AD is bad, he's still above average defensively, but Giannis just defends PGs and wings better.
To me, the real difference here is how they were raised in the NBA. Coaches don't usually take guards with growth spurts and leave them at wing/guard unless they don't have the size. See Kevin Durant. But the advantages are inherent with putting guard skills with 5 size in the front line. It's the modern NBA. Put up as many guard skills as possible.
It's also why Giannis has operated more as a 4/5 during the playoffs. He's playing up a position, because his playmaking and shooting aren't enough to compensate for adding another guard onto the floor.
Frankly, I think Giannis is an elite player. But in regards to specific skills, he's overrated. Overrated as a ball-handler because it's just a tick above average for a wing, but it's still a crossover into a straight line drive or an in-out dribble into a straight line drive. That's why BOS is able to stop him. He has no counter for that until he puts his back to the basket when there's a wall at the rim. Then he doesn't have the respect/gravity of an outside shooter, certainly not to ADs level.
Giannis is the cheat code, where he doesn't have to opt for a 2nd change of direction usually, because of his side length and explosiveness to the hoop. Against BOS, that space to explode to the hoop is eliminated, and non-elite athletes like Al Horford that absorb chest bumps well and move well laterally, neutralize Giannis' game.
Giannis is a power attacker to the hoop. But his secondary and other tertiary skills aren't enough to gain the respect of defenses where he can open up his attack game.
AD, is an elite finisher. He's more of a finesse attacker off the drive. He's a better shooter. Better assortment of complementary skills to go open up what he does best, finishing at the rim.
whoa, nice read. Can you do one on Ben Simmons vs Randle (or even Zion)?
whoa, nice read. Can you do one on Ben Simmons vs Randle (or even Zion)?
Care to be more specific? I don't want to write an article on here, haha.
these 3 next LeBron-ish, one has the playmaking but can't shoot, one can post and bully ball his way to the hoop and one is a rookie that is as athletic as LeBron. Is Ben Simmons really that much better than Randle
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:35 am Post subject:
governator wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
whoa, nice read. Can you do one on Ben Simmons vs Randle (or even Zion)?
Care to be more specific? I don't want to write an article on here, haha.
these 3 next LeBron-ish, one has the playmaking but can't shoot, one can post and bully ball his way to the hoop and one is a rookie that is as athletic as LeBron. Is Ben Simmons really that much better than Randle
Simmons is a tier or two better ball-handler, passer, and defender than Randle. He can't shoot and yet, is still an effective point guard until it's playoff time.
Zion, is almost like combining Simmons in Randle's body and adding a 40" vert. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Obviously the comment touched some nerves with a couple of us “old guys”.
Don't stop at the 80s. Remember the 72 Lakers avg over 120 pts a night. Those NBA dinosaurs West, Goodrich and Happy Hairston could run a fast break.
My initial comment was the Lakers emphasis will not be to push the pace as it was a couple years ago with a young roster built to run and a HC teaching it. Not sure how that translated into the Pistons or extreme slow down style of play .
Now the Lakers are not built push the pace as other teams. Of course they will run when possible. We will still get the James and Davis monster trailing dunks. But this is a team better suited to take advantage of half court mid-matches then trying to run. Predict pace in low teens. Agree the key will be efficiency and the ability to enthusiastically defend.
I consider myself one if those old guys too. Here is my theory through I think these Lakers are going to redefine the basketball game. And it’s not going to be a fast break nor half court. It’s Going to in between.
The logic of the fast court has gained popularity for example you get a great point t guard like curry to advance the ball quickly. Combine that with heat 3 pint shoots like Thompson and instead of getting a layup you get an open 3. This has lead the league to devalue slow big men. Sorry Dwight.
However this Laker team consist of a bigger size Lebron who can also pass and make decisions. And Davis who is a big guy that can also pass well but at the same time can handle the ball and make decisions well.
This is why I believe they going to put Lebron at point guard. As he comes down the court Davis will wait for him near the top of 3 point line and set a screen. Most likely the defense will try to trap Lebron leaving 2 people double team him at the top of the key while Davis will roll to the basket and will receive. A pass from Lebron quickly if that is possible. What this essentially is a quasi 4 on 3 as Davis rolls toward the. Asked. As this point Davis becomes like the point guard and will decide what he should do score pass or other. And
with Lebro. At point guard they can run this play quite early. So it won’t slow the game too much. This it’s like inbetween the fast pace game and slow half court. And this won’t leave the defense more liable unlike a fast break that fails.
Note this is difference from pick and rolls in the past. Generally the person receiving the pass is someone like Lopez or Gasol who for the most part is going to try to score. In this case it’s Davis who has guard skills and becomes like the new point guard. The trying to trap Lebron is more difficult than a smaller point guard that generally is the passer
On the Giannis note, I don’t think the Bucks lose if it was AD isn’t of Giannis. Leonard wouldn’t be able to stop him like he limited Giannis due to his lack of jumpshot and change of direction skills that Mike keenly noted. _________________ Formerly OC Lakerfan
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
slavavov wrote:
FanOfFour wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
Judah wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Actually pace does matter, as you have to maximize the players on your roster. Playing the right pace also helps improve your efficiency.
For us to maximize our offensive efficiency with the players we have, we need to keep playing fast.
Playing with a purpose is far more important than keeping up with some sort of analytic driven pace. Part of the reason why the NBA is now a glorified AAU League is because Pace really is code for "Run and Chuck".
I agree with your first sentence, but not the second one.
The casual fan may think that the NBA has become a glorified AAU league, but when you take a closer look, it ain't true. There's plenty of structure to a strong transition game. You need spacing and timing to run a good fast break, and if it isn't there you need to instantly look for your secondary break, which could involve screen-rolls, utilizing the trailer or other options.
I think the secondary break could be huge for us. Someone else also mentioned the early-to mid 80s Celtics as a model for this team. From watching them on ESPN Classic, they definitely liked to run, but had a really strong halfcourt game too.
The Raptors were 15th in pace but 4th in fast break points per game. Maybe that's another model for us to follow. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Is he really playing the 4 all year? McGee is pretty quick but I’m afraid we won’t be able to run when we have 2 seven footers and LeBron walking up the court all the time
Where do you get the impression the Lakers want to run anymore?
Not how the team is constructed anymore. Have to get the defensive stops first anyways.
Seems like you older guys still don't understand that the game has evolved and the days are over where teams walk the ball up every trip down. Every team plays with pace. It's a more efficient way to play. Aside from signing Boogie, I don't know what makes you think they're about to be Larry Brown's Pistons or something.
Seems like you don't have a clue how disrespectful AND wrong you are.
LOL especially because us "older guys" witnessed the fast breaking 80's which didn't depend on 3 point shooting and massive amounts of free throws to pad scoring.
The Lakers pace isn't that important next season. Not nearly as important as their offensive and defensive efficiency. Rank highly in those 2 categories and it doesn't matter what your pace is.
Actually pace does matter, as you have to maximize the players on your roster. Playing the right pace also helps improve your efficiency.
For us to maximize our offensive efficiency with the players we have, we need to keep playing fast.
Playing with a purpose is far more important than keeping up with some sort of analytic driven pace. Part of the reason why the NBA is now a glorified AAU League is because Pace really is code for "Run and Chuck".
Yeah, the game has evolved alright...it's become a lot softer. In the 80's every team had two or three guys with a Russell Westbrook mentality. There were some mean, nasty players back then that would have floored these softies we have today. When I see a player from this generation flopping or complaining to a ref for for getting a love tap, I immediately lose respect for him.
I don’t think people understand how good AD is he gets 50 with ease. And he’s capable of dominating the perimeter and inside.
This is how I find myself feeling. I don't know how many full games I've actually watched AD play. I know he's a stud and I've seen the stats. But I don't think I'll understand how good he is until I see it every game next season.
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