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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
How many big guys in today's league lead teams to the playoffs with the help AD had? |
Playoffs? That’s a high mark for him. I’m talking about a track record that shows you can rarely win half your games, much less 35 of them. I think the following bigs could have routinely won half their games with the supporting casts he had:
Embid
Jokic
KAT
Porzingis
Giannis
Aldridge
And I don’t there are many great bigs today, and I think Davis is better than some of the guys listed above. I think Davis is great, but the chatter I’m responding to is top 5-10 great. If you are that great you shouldn’t need a ton of help to win half your games, 35 games, etc. |
KAT, Porzingis, and Aldridge wouldn’t have won half the games on those teams. That’s laughable. KAT got to the playoffs once as the second best player and has been on bad teams besides that. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
How many big guys in today's league lead teams to the playoffs with the help AD had? |
Playoffs? That’s a high mark for him. I’m talking about a track record that shows you can rarely win half your games, much less 35 of them. I think the following bigs could have routinely won half their games with the supporting casts he had:
Embid
Jokic
KAT
Porzingis
Giannis
Aldridge
And I don’t there are many great bigs today, and I think Davis is better than some of the guys listed above. I think Davis is great, but the chatter I’m responding to is top 5-10 great. If you are that great you shouldn’t need a ton of help to win half your games, 35 games, etc. |
KAT, Porzingis, and Aldridge wouldn’t have won half the games on those teams. That’s laughable. KAT got to the playoffs once as the second best player and has been on bad teams besides that. |
I removed Porzingis. He can’t stay healthy.
KAT was at 36 wins this season and his team wasn’t great. Aldridge has rarely had losing seasons like that. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
How many big guys in today's league lead teams to the playoffs with the help AD had? |
Playoffs? That’s a high mark for him. I’m talking about a track record that shows you can rarely win half your games, much less 35 of them. I think the following bigs could have routinely won half their games with the supporting casts he had:
Embid
Jokic
KAT
Porzingis
Giannis
Aldridge
And I don’t there are many great bigs today, and I think Davis is better than some of the guys listed above. I think Davis is great, but the chatter I’m responding to is top 5-10 great. If you are that great you shouldn’t need a ton of help to win half your games, 35 games, etc. |
KAT, Porzingis, and Aldridge wouldn’t have won half the games on those teams. That’s laughable. KAT got to the playoffs once as the second best player and has been on bad teams besides that. |
I removed Porzingis. He can’t stay healthy.
KAT was at 36 wins this season and his team wasn’t great. Aldridge has rarely had losing seasons like that. |
Aldridge has been on good teams for the majority of his career. KAT is one of the most overrated players in the league. It confuses me. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Aldridge has been on good teams for the majority of his career. KAT is one of the most overrated players in the league. It confuses me. |
If you are a top 5 player, how good of a team do you need to be on to win 35 games? |
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LVLAKERFAN Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5347 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Aldridge has been on good teams for the majority of his career. KAT is one of the most overrated players in the league. It confuses me. |
If you are a top 5 player, how good of a team do you need to be on to win 35 games? |
Depends on how healthy everyone is, how healthy the top 5 player is, coaching, chemistry, conference, so many factors.
I think Davis is gonna break thru to another level this year. _________________ SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Aldridge has been on good teams for the majority of his career. KAT is one of the most overrated players in the league. It confuses me. |
If you are a top 5 player, how good of a team do you need to be on to win 35 games? |
Not very good most of the time. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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it is odd. But the Pels were tied for 4th in the West in 17-18; and they swept one of this years WCF teams.. that's a pretty great year. (and it wasn't because of Demarcus) |
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LonzoLegend2 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2017 Posts: 680
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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If AD spurns us will he sit stop LG's John Wick Hit List ahead of PG, KL, and Aldridge? |
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Nnamdi21 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 3715
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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maybe AD will be our Kevin Love |
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Pureshot77 Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2008 Posts: 898
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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LonzoLegend2 wrote: | If AD spurns us will he sit stop LG's John Wick Hit List ahead of PG, KL, and Aldridge? |
How is it that D. Howard is not on this list? |
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george w kush Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2009 Posts: 1167
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
My prediction is that Lebron will be Lebron, and AD will be AD, and which of them is #1 will be in the eye of the beholder, similar to Durant and Curry on the Warriors. |
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Big Shot Bob Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Apr 2015 Posts: 648
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
LeBron’s dream at this point is that he can take 15 games off, average 22-6-6 on 32mpg and let AD, Cousins and Kuzma combine for 60 and 25. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: |
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35 win is a function of the team, even Kobe and LeBron has missed the playoff in their career not because they weren't top2 or top3 players but their team sucks/injured. AD is the best bigman next to Embiid and Jokic,and when healthy AD is better than the other 2, DPOY level, great face up/back to basket, athletic, guard dribbling and wet jumpers. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | it is odd. But the Pels were tied for 4th in the West in 17-18; and they swept one of this years WCF teams.. that's a pretty great year. (and it wasn't because of Demarcus) |
And it definitely wasn’t because of Rondo. Jrue and AD were in top form with Mirotic being the X factor. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:36 am Post subject: |
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george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
AD hasn’t been successful as the #1, it will have to be Lebron. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
AD hasn’t been successful as the #1, it will have to be Lebron. |
You saying AD wasn't the #1 guy on the Pels in 2017-18? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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FanOfFour Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1761
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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FanOfFour wrote: |
It's because people are going off of what they seem to remember those teams were comprised of instead of what actually happened that season. See the rosters below. Only players listed are ones who freakin' played more than half the season. If you can't play half the season, your impact is negligible towards making the playoffs. So no Boogie is listed.
Player, Games Played, Scoring Average
Let's start with 2016:
Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7
2017:
Solomon Hill 80 7.0
Anthony Davis 75 28.0
E'Twaun Moore 73 9.6
Jrue Holiday 67 15.4
Dante Cunningham 66 6.6
Tim Frazier 65 7.1
Buddy Hield 57 8.6
Langston Galloway 55 8.6
Terrence Jones 51 11.5
2019:
Julius Randle 73 21.4
Darius Miller 69 8.2
Jrue Holiday 67 21.2
Cheick Diallo 64 6.0
Frank Jackson 61 8.1
Ian Clark 60 6.7
Jahlil Okafor 59 8.2
Anthony Davis 56 25.9
E'Twaun Moore 53 11.9
Tim Frazier 47 5.0
Kenrich Williams 46 6.1
Solomon Hill 44 4.3
These are playoff team rosters? In the WEST? C'mon now, be realistic. If you want to complain about missing games, that's fine. We can all agree on that. But AD played 75 games in two successive seasons prior to last season, when we know dang well he wasn't injured for 26 games. After he made his trade demand he played 22mpg vs 36mpg and sat so the Pelicans could protect their trade asset. |
I see the folks doubting AD's ability to "lead" a team to the playoffs are back in full force. Since this was ignored by the folks prior, I'll re-post it here. Go ahead and check these rosters/games played/scoring stats and let us all know which of these 3 iterations of the Pelicans AD should've led to the playoffs. Or any other "top 5" player. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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FanOfFour wrote: | FanOfFour wrote: |
It's because people are going off of what they seem to remember those teams were comprised of instead of what actually happened that season. See the rosters below. Only players listed are ones who freakin' played more than half the season. If you can't play half the season, your impact is negligible towards making the playoffs. So no Boogie is listed.
Player, Games Played, Scoring Average
Let's start with 2016:
Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7
2017:
Solomon Hill 80 7.0
Anthony Davis 75 28.0
E'Twaun Moore 73 9.6
Jrue Holiday 67 15.4
Dante Cunningham 66 6.6
Tim Frazier 65 7.1
Buddy Hield 57 8.6
Langston Galloway 55 8.6
Terrence Jones 51 11.5
2019:
Julius Randle 73 21.4
Darius Miller 69 8.2
Jrue Holiday 67 21.2
Cheick Diallo 64 6.0
Frank Jackson 61 8.1
Ian Clark 60 6.7
Jahlil Okafor 59 8.2
Anthony Davis 56 25.9
E'Twaun Moore 53 11.9
Tim Frazier 47 5.0
Kenrich Williams 46 6.1
Solomon Hill 44 4.3
These are playoff team rosters? In the WEST? C'mon now, be realistic. If you want to complain about missing games, that's fine. We can all agree on that. But AD played 75 games in two successive seasons prior to last season, when we know dang well he wasn't injured for 26 games. After he made his trade demand he played 22mpg vs 36mpg and sat so the Pelicans could protect their trade asset. |
I see the folks doubting AD's ability to "lead" a team to the playoffs are back in full force. Since this was ignored by the folks prior, I'll re-post it here. Go ahead and check these rosters/games played/scoring stats and let us all know which of these 3 iterations of the Pelicans AD should've led to the playoffs. Or any other "top 5" player. |
#1 - A top 5 player should be able to win 35 games with all of those squads. How much help does one need to win 35 games?
#2 - For comparison, since you only highlighted those who played half the season, Harden lost Howard for half the season and still got Houston the #2 seed. Beverly and both PFs missed big time too. This roster is just as bad:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2015.html
When Howard left the FA signings were Anderson and Gordon from NO. 55 wins with Harden:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2017.html
Harden had Asik his first season, with Lin and Parsons. 45 wins.
And you likely don’t even think Harden has been top 5 most years.
The above teams aren’t that bad, when it comes to making the playoffs or winning close to half of your games.
Last edited by Dreamshake on Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Beir32 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I don't really give a rat's ass if Kuz takes an unprecedented step forward coupled with DMC getting all the way back to Sacramento form, thus relegating Anthony Davis to fourth option. If he helps the team make a championship run and comes up big at the right times then I'll be happy.
Im guessing Houston fans would gladly take a championship over Harden winning an MVP as well. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
AD hasn’t been successful as the #1, it will have to be Lebron. |
You saying AD wasn't the #1 guy on the Pels in 2017-18? |
You consider one playoff series win successful? Jrue was really good that season, AD was good and Mirotic was the X factor. He needs someone to get him going, that is why Lebron is critical. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Last edited by venturalakersfan on Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
I worry about AD's durability if his usage gets too high. It's a balancing act. But I'm all for ramping up his usage as the season progresses and we get closer to playoffs. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | george w kush wrote: | I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career. |
AD hasn’t been successful as the #1, it will have to be Lebron. |
You saying AD wasn't the #1 guy on the Pels in 2017-18? |
You consider one playoff series win successful? Jrue was really good that season, AD was good and Mirotic was the X factor. He needs someone to get him going, that is why Lebron is critical. |
I definitely agree that Jrue and Mirotic provided great help, as did Boogie before he went down. But just to clarify, do you consider AD the #1 guy for that squad? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Nnamdi21 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 3715
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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FanOfFour wrote: | FanOfFour wrote: |
It's because people are going off of what they seem to remember those teams were comprised of instead of what actually happened that season. See the rosters below. Only players listed are ones who freakin' played more than half the season. If you can't play half the season, your impact is negligible towards making the playoffs. So no Boogie is listed.
Player, Games Played, Scoring Average
Let's start with 2016:
Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7
2017:
Solomon Hill 80 7.0
Anthony Davis 75 28.0
E'Twaun Moore 73 9.6
Jrue Holiday 67 15.4
Dante Cunningham 66 6.6
Tim Frazier 65 7.1
Buddy Hield 57 8.6
Langston Galloway 55 8.6
Terrence Jones 51 11.5
2019:
Julius Randle 73 21.4
Darius Miller 69 8.2
Jrue Holiday 67 21.2
Cheick Diallo 64 6.0
Frank Jackson 61 8.1
Ian Clark 60 6.7
Jahlil Okafor 59 8.2
Anthony Davis 56 25.9
E'Twaun Moore 53 11.9
Tim Frazier 47 5.0
Kenrich Williams 46 6.1
Solomon Hill 44 4.3
These are playoff team rosters? In the WEST? C'mon now, be realistic. If you want to complain about missing games, that's fine. We can all agree on that. But AD played 75 games in two successive seasons prior to last season, when we know dang well he wasn't injured for 26 games. After he made his trade demand he played 22mpg vs 36mpg and sat so the Pelicans could protect their trade asset. |
I see the folks doubting AD's ability to "lead" a team to the playoffs are back in full force. Since this was ignored by the folks prior, I'll re-post it here. Go ahead and check these rosters/games played/scoring stats and let us all know which of these 3 iterations of the Pelicans AD should've led to the playoffs. Or any other "top 5" player. |
those are elite squads and Alvin Gentry is known defensive guru. |
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