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Halflife
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:58 pm    Post subject:

gentry is not a good coach
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject:

FanOfFour wrote:

Let's start with 2016:

Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7


I had to highlight this season because I am familiar with Anderson and Gordon, players that Harden had no problem winning games with in the 2017 season.

- In 2016, Davis played 61 games. They were 24-37 with him.

- While NO had injuries to Anderson, Gordon and Jrue, when all 3 played alongside Davis they still only won 38% of their games (13-21 record). Small sample size, but the team had a losing record for each of these supporting players. These are not bad players.

- The very next season, Anderson and Gordon won 69% of games playing alongside Harden, when they were his best teammates after Howard left. There was no one else on the team as good as Jrue IMO, and Capela played in less games than Asik (won won 55% of his games in his lone season with Harden).

Davis had enough help that season to win more than 30 games. But he too was injury prone and when he did play the team still lost the majority of their games with him. That's not a top 5-10 player impact on winning. He's never had the type of help to win a title but to barely make the playoffs or routinely win half of your games...a top guy shouldn't need a stacked squad to do that. And yes, he was only 22 that season. Harden was only 23 in his first season in Houston, with Lin, Parsons and Asik. He still led them to 45 wins, and he only made All NBA 3rd team that year (ie not a top 5 player). If Davis is that good (ie top 5) then he shouldn't need a ton of help to win half his games, etc.

He's a better version of Pau Gasol.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:23 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
FanOfFour wrote:

Let's start with 2016:

Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7


I had to highlight this season because I am familiar with Anderson and Gordon, players that Harden had no problem winning games with in the 2017 season.

- In 2016, Davis played 61 games. They were 24-37 with him.

- While NO had injuries to Anderson, Gordon and Jrue, when all 3 played alongside Davis they still only won 38% of their games (13-21 record). Small sample size, but the team had a losing record for each of these supporting players. These are not bad players.

- The very next season, Anderson and Gordon won 69% of games playing alongside Harden, when they were his best teammates after Howard left. There was no one else on the team as good as Jrue IMO, and Capela played in less games than Asik (won won 55% of his games in his lone season with Harden).

Davis had enough help that season to win more than 30 games. But he too was injury prone and when he did play the team still lost the majority of their games with him. That's not a top 5-10 player impact on winning. He's never had the type of help to win a title but to barely make the playoffs or routinely win half of your games...a top guy shouldn't need a stacked squad to do that. And yes, he was only 22 that season. Harden was only 23 in his first season in Houston, with Lin, Parsons and Asik. He still led them to 45 wins, and he only made All NBA 3rd team that year (ie not a top 5 player). If Davis is that good (ie top 5) then he shouldn't need a ton of help to win half his games, etc.

He's a better version of Pau Gasol.


How do you explain 2018 playoffs where Pelicans swept Blazers? Mind you Pelicans just lost Boogie so basically Davis had to go against Lillard and McCollum by himself. Portland had better roster yet "better version Pau" beat them". How come mighty Harden couldn't beat Blazers back in 2014? He had D12.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:51 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
FanOfFour wrote:

Let's start with 2016:

Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7


I had to highlight this season because I am familiar with Anderson and Gordon, players that Harden had no problem winning games with in the 2017 season.

- In 2016, Davis played 61 games. They were 24-37 with him.

- While NO had injuries to Anderson, Gordon and Jrue, when all 3 played alongside Davis they still only won 38% of their games (13-21 record). Small sample size, but the team had a losing record for each of these supporting players. These are not bad players.

- The very next season, Anderson and Gordon won 69% of games playing alongside Harden, when they were his best teammates after Howard left. There was no one else on the team as good as Jrue IMO, and Capela played in less games than Asik (won won 55% of his games in his lone season with Harden).

Davis had enough help that season to win more than 30 games. But he too was injury prone and when he did play the team still lost the majority of their games with him. That's not a top 5-10 player impact on winning. He's never had the type of help to win a title but to barely make the playoffs or routinely win half of your games...a top guy shouldn't need a stacked squad to do that. And yes, he was only 22 that season. Harden was only 23 in his first season in Houston, with Lin, Parsons and Asik. He still led them to 45 wins, and he only made All NBA 3rd team that year (ie not a top 5 player). If Davis is that good (ie top 5) then he shouldn't need a ton of help to win half his games, etc.

He's a better version of Pau Gasol.


How do you explain 2018 playoffs where Pelicans swept Blazers? Mind you Pelicans just lost Boogie so basically Davis had to go against Lillard and McCollum by himself. Portland had better roster yet "better version Pau" beat them". How come mighty Harden couldn't beat Blazers back in 2014? He had D12.



Seems like some random delusional rockets fan has just been owned
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:26 am    Post subject:

That was 2 years ago where he looked absolutely dominant and had that little bit of Playoff success then last year I have no doubt he would have made the Playoffs as well if they weren't trying to move him and had him miss games then was forced to make him come back and play limited minutes to end the season.

He is only 26 and just barely beginning to enter his prime.. Honestly, I dont really care what he was doing 3+ years ago when he was missing much more games due to injury and still maturing. It should be pretty clear he's a more dominant player then Gasol though and that's saying quite a bit right there.

Harden is still a horrible comparison imo.. Any great ball dominant guard is going to be able to do more on his own then a big is going to do, especially in the current NBA. Also, Harden has never won on his own and imo never will playing his current style. He will keep making the Playoffs but there's always going to be better teams then his. I'm glad that's not the case here. Davis absolutely needs help like any other superstar does as far as actually winning a championship. There's nothing to be proud of about making the Playoffs every year but never actually winning the Championship. Like I said before, the Rockets are the new Phoenix Suns (not even that good anymore with the Westbrook switch imo). Great regular season team but nobody really expects them to win it all.

I think he is right in the mix of being a top 5 player without question though. We'll find out this season just how far up or down that ladder he should go. I completely get a Rockets fan hoping for the worst though since I would be doing the same with Westbrook and Harden sharing the court together
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
FanOfFour wrote:

Let's start with 2016:

Dante Cunningham 80 6.1
Alonzo Gee 73 4.5
Ömer Aşık 68 4.0
Ryan Anderson 66 17.0
Jrue Holiday 65 16.8
Anthony Davis 61 24.3
Toney Douglas 61 8.7
Alexis Ajinça 59 6.0
Luke Babbitt 47 7.0
Eric Gordon 45 16.7


I had to highlight this season because I am familiar with Anderson and Gordon, players that Harden had no problem winning games with in the 2017 season.

- In 2016, Davis played 61 games. They were 24-37 with him.

- While NO had injuries to Anderson, Gordon and Jrue, when all 3 played alongside Davis they still only won 38% of their games (13-21 record). Small sample size, but the team had a losing record for each of these supporting players. These are not bad players.

- The very next season, Anderson and Gordon won 69% of games playing alongside Harden, when they were his best teammates after Howard left. There was no one else on the team as good as Jrue IMO, and Capela played in less games than Asik (won won 55% of his games in his lone season with Harden).

Davis had enough help that season to win more than 30 games. But he too was injury prone and when he did play the team still lost the majority of their games with him. That's not a top 5-10 player impact on winning. He's never had the type of help to win a title but to barely make the playoffs or routinely win half of your games...a top guy shouldn't need a stacked squad to do that. And yes, he was only 22 that season. Harden was only 23 in his first season in Houston, with Lin, Parsons and Asik. He still led them to 45 wins, and he only made All NBA 3rd team that year (ie not a top 5 player). If Davis is that good (ie top 5) then he shouldn't need a ton of help to win half his games, etc.

He's a better version of Pau Gasol.


How do you explain 2018 playoffs where Pelicans swept Blazers? Mind you Pelicans just lost Boogie so basically Davis had to go against Lillard and McCollum by himself. Portland had better roster yet "better version Pau" beat them". How come mighty Harden couldn't beat Blazers back in 2014? He had D12.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
gentry is not a good coach


I still can’t believe that Griffin didn’t fire him.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
george w kush wrote:
I'm predicting this upcoming season LeBron will let AD take over as the #1 and he will dominate the NBA. Not only would it help AD's career/marketing opportunities, but him having a great season would greatly increase the odds of resigning him, and LeBron wouldn't have to expend so much energy on offense and preserve his body to extend his playing career.


AD hasn’t been successful as the #1, it will have to be Lebron.


You saying AD wasn't the #1 guy on the Pels in 2017-18?


You consider one playoff series win successful? Jrue was really good that season, AD was good and Mirotic was the X factor. He needs someone to get him going, that is why Lebron is critical.


I definitely agree that Jrue and Mirotic provided great help, as did Boogie before he went down. But just to clarify, do you consider AD the #1 guy for that squad?


No, he needed someone to feed him. They were successful when he missed games, Mirotic was able to replace what he brought.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:


You saying AD wasn't the #1 guy on the Pels in 2017-18?


You consider one playoff series win successful? Jrue was really good that season, AD was good and Mirotic was the X factor. He needs someone to get him going, that is why Lebron is critical.


I definitely agree that Jrue and Mirotic provided great help, as did Boogie before he went down. But just to clarify, do you consider AD the #1 guy for that squad?


No, he needed someone to feed him. They were successful when he missed games, Mirotic was able to replace what he brought.


Thanks for the clarification. So I take it you consider Jrue the real #1 guy for that Pels team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

I’m not sure that team had a real #1.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:34 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I’m not sure that team had a real #1.


I'll have to disagree with you on that one. AD was the man for that team imo.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:36 am    Post subject:

When they needed a score they went with Holiday, not AD. He was more flexible with the ball.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:
How do you explain 2018 playoffs where Pelicans swept Blazers?


I explain it as having 2 years of 7 of winning more than 35 games. That was one of those years. The next season the team is back to losing most games even with him in the lineup.

What holds more weight, 2 of 7 or 5 of 7?

Palin wrote:
How come mighty Harden couldn't beat Blazers back in 2014? He had D12.


Harden underwhelmed and Aldridge went nuts, outplaying Howard. The next year they went to the WCFs. The next year Davis was right back in the lottery. Harden was not in the lotto. He’s advanced far numerous times. And you still likely don’t think he’s top 5. But a guy who can’t routinely win 35 games is?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject:

Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


If the team isn’t bound then why should the player be?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


If the team isn’t bound then why should the player be?

Yep it’s ok for a team to ship out a player for their own benefit but when a player wants it it’s bad. Let’s go cry to media now that players have power. Not shocked by a a guy who named his son Nick Kerr....

Btw anyone realize PG has done this twice yet not one peep about it but AD is a bad guy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


If the team isn’t bound then why should the player be?


I don’t necessarily disagree with getting rid of contracts entirely evens the playing field.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


If the team isn’t bound then why should the player be?

Yep it’s ok for a team to ship out a player for their own benefit but when a player wants it it’s bad. Let’s go cry to media now that players have power. Not shocked by a a guy who named his son Nick Kerr....

Btw anyone realize PG has done this twice yet not one peep about it but AD is a bad guy


Not quite the same though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
PayasoLoco wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


If the team isn’t bound then why should the player be?

Yep it’s ok for a team to ship out a player for their own benefit but when a player wants it it’s bad. Let’s go cry to media now that players have power. Not shocked by a a guy who named his son Nick Kerr....

Btw anyone realize PG has done this twice yet not one peep about it but AD is a bad guy


Not quite the same though.

How is Paul George asking both Indiana and OKC to trade him any different than AD asking for a trade?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


Hypocritical to single out AD and not have one word to say about PG who just did the exact same thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


Hypocritical to single out AD and not have one word to say about PG who just did the exact same thing.


If I'm the League, isn't worse that a guy who just finished year 1 of a 4 year deal wants out and gets it?

Meanwhile AD spent 7 years on the Pels and told them b/f the trade deadline so they could field offers for him?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


Hypocritical to single out AD and not have one word to say about PG who just did the exact same thing.


But but he didn't request a trade to the Lakers. Lakers is the magic word here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject:

think it's near impossible to rank the top 8 outside of the clear top 2.
it's basically regular season worth, juxtaposed with being 'exposed' in the playoffs, juxtaposed with 2 way worth............
You have perennial MVP candidates that are consensus not top 4, lol. Few called Westbrook a top 5 player when he won MVP - maybe because it's obvious that he's not an elite player come playoff action. Paul George, 3rd best regular season; consensus not a top 6 player.
Hard to pin down the rankings. Even Kawhi took the regular season very lightly, his team would have won 35-40 games if he was on the Pelicans....
Steph, Harden, Westbrook, George -- all could be outplayed by AD in a playoff series. Regular season, the ball dominant guards are important engines and facilitators. Playoffs, the 2 way guy who doesn't rely on streaky 3point shooting, is probably just as good.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Still think a KL/AD duo would have been scarier to me than KL/PG duo.

Thank goodness we got AD.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Steve Kerr thinks how AD got to the Lakers is bad for the league. I don’t disagree.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27250922/kerr-forced-trade-davis-bad-league

Quote:
"I'm talking more about the Anthony Davis situation," Kerr told The Warriors Insider Podcast. "Where a guy is perfectly healthy and has a couple years left on his deal and says, 'I want to leave.' That's a real problem that the league has to address and that the players have to be careful with.

"When you sign on that dotted line, you owe your effort and your play to that team, to that city, to the fans. And then it's completely your right to leave as a free agent. But if you sign the contract, then you should be bound to that contract."


He sounds triggered. Wish that world class morality had come into play before his organization ruined KDs career.
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