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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:27 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | ksmgf wrote: | GTL wrote: | LandsbergerRules wrote: | Averaging almost 30 and 12 for his career in the postseason. (bleep) monster. |
And the f'n guy can score from anywhere! He can play on the perimeter, in the post, back to the basket, left and right wing, long range, doesn't matter! His defense is impeccable. He's a shot calling shot blocker. His efforts are leading him to the prize. A+++++ player. |
I still don't understand why so many people think Giannis is the better player. AD>Giannis |
I found Rich Paul’s Burner guys! 😝 |
It's not so outrageous that it would pinpoint a burner account. LOL! Some people do prefer AD over Freak. Our team for example would be worse if you replace AD with Freak. The brute of Lebron mixed with the finesse of AD is perfect. Too much would be dependent on Bron in the crunch if Freak is his running mate. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:30 am Post subject: |
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I like how AD yelled, "I'm that guy!" I love how he wants this. During the year, he can be complacent, prompting me to think Pau Gasol had more fire than him. This is the AD we want and need. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:30 am Post subject: |
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I like how AD yelled, "I'm that guy!" I love how he wants this. During the year, he can be complacent, prompting me to think Pau Gasol had more fire than him. This is the AD we want and need. |
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Kobetan Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2020 Posts: 2941
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Runway8 wrote: | I like how AD yelled, "I'm that guy!" I love how he wants this. During the year, he can be complacent, prompting me to think Pau Gasol had more fire than him. This is the AD we want and need. |
Looking at the replays I thought he was yelling 'I'm like that!' haha |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Worth more than all the pieces of the trade we sent out, on the way to be our three-peat Kobe |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22244 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:48 am Post subject: |
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AD ON DA WAY |
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DrWolf Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 536 Location: At the basketball court next to yours, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Definitely added himself to the list of the best buzzer beaters on my last, 0.4 still ranks as the top though, at least for me. _________________ Indianapolis Colts
Los Angeles Dodgers
Los Angeles Kings
KOBE BRYANT
1978-2020
BLACK MAMBA RIP
2020 WORLD CHAMPION LAKERS!
2020 WORLD CHAMPION DODGERS! |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:59 am Post subject: |
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GTL wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | alleyoop wrote: | An interesting thought - if we win the chip and AD wins FMVP, where does he rank all-time? In particular compared to the likes of Garnett/Dirk/Barkley/Malone? |
I'd still put him behind all of those guys. We had 7 years to see Davis carry a team and he led them to a 251-323 record. You don't need great help to not lose that many games. Garnett/Dirk/Barkley/Malone are winning rings alongside LeBron too.
In the Pippen range maybe. He's still young so he can make his mark when LeBron is gone, and should have better help. That would really elevate him, especially if doing it in LA. But I don't think winning when most still consider LeBron the best player will boost him above those guys. |
With all due respect, but this is such a lame argument that can be applied for any great players playing together.
It also sometimes doesn't work out quite so well.
You still need chemistry and skill to go along with sheer luck to be 1 of 30 when all is said and done.
Also, Pippen is a better player then Garnett, Barkley and Malone. Change my mind. |
I bolded the main argument (which is why is was listed first) that you didn’t touch on. We have nearly a decade of evidence of Davis leading a team. It doesn’t compare in any way to what any of those guys did leading teams. He hasn’t proven he can do what they did. The part you highlighted is an assumption for sure, but we have seen nada to make one think either of those guys would have issues playing alongside LeBron. If the general thought was that Davis was the best player on this team then that would be different, but it’s still about LeBron. |
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LAPauer Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jul 2016 Posts: 165
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:27 am Post subject: |
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DrWolf wrote: | Definitely added himself to the list of the best buzzer beaters on my last, 0.4 still ranks as the top though, at least for me. |
Depends on the end of the run. If it ends in a chip, it will have been more consequential than .4, though .4 was a tougher and less likely shot. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Kobetan wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | I like how AD yelled, "I'm that guy!" I love how he wants this. During the year, he can be complacent, prompting me to think Pau Gasol had more fire than him. This is the AD we want and need. |
Looking at the replays I thought he was yelling 'I'm like that!' haha |
Yeah, I might have gotten the quote wrong, but regardless, it's that cocky swag. That gives me confidence that a ring on the horizon. But Miami or Boston feel like blue collar teams like the 2004 Pistons, so I'm knocking on wood. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39322
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Hey I would much rather have the inferior stat padder and compete for championships than have guys like Harden or Westbrick that win MVP's but never rings.
Karl Malone and Charles Barkley were awesome stat padders who played on great teams, but they just could not get the job done. Hopefully by the end of this season Davis wont be in that category. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:33 am Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | Hey I would much rather have the inferior stat padder and compete for championships than have guys like Harden or Westbrick that win MVP's but never rings.
Karl Malone and Charles Barkley were awesome stat padders who played on great teams, but they just could not get the job done. Hopefully by the end of this season Davis wont be in that category. |
C'mon, I know you didn't like the Dreamshake take, but these guys were not stat padders. LOL! They were simply the best on their team, in the league and all time. It was very difficult for any of them to move and team up with another super star in their primes under that CBA. |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:58 am Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | Hey I would much rather have the inferior stat padder and compete for championships than have guys like Harden or Westbrick that win MVP's but never rings.
Karl Malone and Charles Barkley were awesome stat padders who played on great teams, but they just could not get the job done. Hopefully by the end of this season Davis wont be in that category. |
😂 All of those guys would be title favorites alongside LeBron too, aside from Westbrook. Harden playing alongside LeBron’s gravity....good Lord!
I mean, y’all still think the guy I bolded would have a ring if he didn’t get hurt in 04, right? Now imagine if he forced his way to play alongside the best player in his prime. This is not a knock on Davis (I’m pro free agency). But I’m not gonna flame guys for staying loyal and coming up short when they are underdogs.
Davis hasn’t proven that he can carry the load as those other guys have. Right now he’s proving that it’s unfair to put him alongside one of the best ever to do just that. And he’s dominating in that manner. He’s still young and will likely have plenty of chances to get into discussions with those guys (referencing the bigs first mentioned).
Edit: FYI, Harden did compete for championships, once as a 3rd option and twice as the primary one (came closest to beating GS in two WCF’s trips). That’s not inferior stat padding. He wasn’t good enough to carry his team past better teams, including one historically great one.
Last edited by Dreamshake on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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j-dawg Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 12177
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | GTL wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | alleyoop wrote: | An interesting thought - if we win the chip and AD wins FMVP, where does he rank all-time? In particular compared to the likes of Garnett/Dirk/Barkley/Malone? |
I'd still put him behind all of those guys. We had 7 years to see Davis carry a team and he led them to a 251-323 record. You don't need great help to not lose that many games. Garnett/Dirk/Barkley/Malone are winning rings alongside LeBron too.
In the Pippen range maybe. He's still young so he can make his mark when LeBron is gone, and should have better help. That would really elevate him, especially if doing it in LA. But I don't think winning when most still consider LeBron the best player will boost him above those guys. |
With all due respect, but this is such a lame argument that can be applied for any great players playing together.
It also sometimes doesn't work out quite so well.
You still need chemistry and skill to go along with sheer luck to be 1 of 30 when all is said and done.
Also, Pippen is a better player then Garnett, Barkley and Malone. Change my mind. |
I bolded the main argument (which is why is was listed first) that you didn’t touch on. We have nearly a decade of evidence of Davis leading a team. It doesn’t compare in any way to what any of those guys did leading teams. He hasn’t proven he can do what they did. The part you highlighted is an assumption for sure, but we have seen nada to make one think either of those guys would have issues playing alongside LeBron. If the general thought was that Davis was the best player on this team then that would be different, but it’s still about LeBron. |
The same argument can be used for Garnett
Quote: |
Kevin Garnett Playoff record in his first 7 seasons:
95-96: No Playoffs (Gugliotta & Laettner)
96-97: 0-3 Playoff record (Guliotta & Marbury)
97-98: 2-3 Playoff Record (Gugliotta & Marbury)
98-99: 1-3 playoff record (T. Brandon & Marbury)
99-00: 1-3 playoff record (Brandon & W. Sczerbiak)
00-01: 1-3 playoff record (Brandon, Sczerbiak, & C. Billups)
01-02: 0-3 playoff record (Brandon, Sczerbiak, & C. Billups)
Playoff record:
5-18
.217 winning percentage
# of former, present, and future All Star players on his team: 6
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Quote: |
Anthony Davis Playoff record in his first 7 seasons:
12-13: no playoffs (none)
13-14: no playoffs (J. Holiday)
14-15: 0-4 playoff record (Holiday)
15-16: no playoffs (Holiday)
16-17: no playoffs (D. Cousins, Holiday)
17-18: 5-4 playoff record (R. Rondo, Cousins, Holiday)
18-19: no playoffs (Holiday)
Playoff record:
5-8
.384 winning percentage
# of former, present, and future All Star players on his team: 4
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Interesting Facts
- Davis and Garnett have both gotten out of the 1st round of the playoffs as the #1 scorer on their teams ONCE each. During those seasons, they each played with 3 other former, present or future All Star players on their teams
- Garnett has had at least 1 former, present or future All Star players on each of his teams every season. Davis had no former, present or future All Star players in his 1st year
- Garnett has played with 2 players who have made the All Star team with him simultaneously (S. Cassell & W. Sczerbiak) while Davis has made it simultaneously with only 1 (D. Cousins)
I'm not even saying that Davis is better than Garnett now. I am just saying that arguments used against Davis can easily be used against Garnett as well. And in this particular argument, Davis has actually done better with less help around him when you count the past, future and present All Stars that he has played with in any given season!
Last edited by j-dawg on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Why the heck are we talking about AD's legacy right now? We are in the midst of a championship run. Let the chips fall where they may later. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:15 am Post subject: |
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More goodies:
Quote: | Anthony Slater
@anthonyVslater
Some Anthony Davis playoff stats
*+131, highest plus/minus of all playoff players
*25-of-43 on mid range jumpers from 16+ feet
*65 restricted area makes in 12 games
*Averaging 29 points on 57% FG
*102.3 defensive rating when he’s on the floor |
_________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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Dreamshake Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 13709
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:17 am Post subject: |
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j-dawg
The same argument can’t be used for Garnett. Garnett was routinely in the playoffs, not the lotto. He wasn’t routinely losing most of his games, even when he had inferior talent. His ability to play as opposed to Davis staying hurt had a lot to do with that though.
Davis will get a bump when y’all win for sure, but I don’t think he will get placed above those dudes winning as LeBron’s star support. For comparisons:
- I don’t think Wade is rated as high if he didn’t win as the main guy in 06
- Worthy won as a great 2nd option. Finals MVP too right? Is he ever ranked above the best SFs ever? |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Why the heck are we talking about AD's legacy right now? We are in the midst of a championship run. Let the chips fall where they may later. |
I’m more concerned about why I have to hear about Kevin Garnett in an AD thread. 😝 _________________ “You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:34 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Why the heck are we talking about AD's legacy right now? We are in the midst of a championship run. Let the chips fall where they may later. |
I’m more concerned about why I have to hear about Kevin Garnett in an AD thread. 😝 |
I dont mind
At least we've moved on from the "he's soft" narrative. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
Last edited by epic_ on Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17065
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | j-dawg
The same argument can’t be used for Garnett. Garnett was routinely in the playoffs, not the lotto. He wasn’t routinely losing most of his games, even when he had inferior talent. His ability to play as opposed to Davis staying hurt had a lot to do with that though.
Davis will get a bump when y’all win for sure, but I don’t think he will get placed above those dudes winning as LeBron’s star support. For comparisons:
- I don’t think Wade is rated as high if he didn’t win as the main guy in 06
- Worthy won as a great 2nd option. Finals MVP too right? Is he ever ranked above the best SFs ever? |
How many PF's have been "the main guys" on champions?
- Dirk, undoubtedly.
- Duncan, though he had probably the best supporting cast, starting with DRob, and always lost to strong Lakers teams (except for 02-03 when we were just ragged after 3-peating), and was the de facto center on the last 3.
- Elvin Hayes (like Duncan, was the de facto center)
- Bob Petit
That's a short list.
*McHale (not the main guy)
*KG (not the main guy)
*Malone (no championships)
*DeBusschere (not the main guy)
*Bosh (not the main guy)
*Barkley (no championships)
It's rare for a PF to be the leader of a title team. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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j-dawg Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 12177
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Dreamshake wrote: | j-dawg
The same argument can’t be used for Garnett. Garnett was routinely in the playoffs, not the lotto. He wasn’t routinely losing most of his games, even when he had inferior talent. His ability to play as opposed to Davis staying hurt had a lot to do with that though.
Davis will get a bump when y’all win for sure, but I don’t think he will get placed above those dudes winning as LeBron’s star support. For comparisons:
- I don’t think Wade is rated as high if he didn’t win as the main guy in 06
- Worthy won as a great 2nd option. Finals MVP too right? Is he ever ranked above the best SFs ever? |
I disagree with the argument, even though I think Garnett should be rated higher than Davis right now
I do agree that KG has been healthier than Davis in their first 7 seasons. Because Garnett has been on the floor more than Davis, it is natural that he has a higher regular season winning percentage. It should also be higher because he has played with more Former/present/future All Stars on his teams. But then we get to talking about the playoffs...
Since you put an emphasis on discounting players winning with other Stars (because you use LeBron as an argument against Davis’ success this year), how many championships as KG won as the #1 option on his team?
How many championships have Malone and Barkley won not just in the first 7 years of their career, but for their entire careers?
Heck...
How many times has KG gotten out of the first round of the playoffs as the #1 option on his team? Not just the first 7 years, but for his entire career?
Hint: it’s all the same as Davis, who is still 27 and entering his prime and playing with an actual Future HOF player for the first time in his career |
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Jordan-esque Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 10262
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Jordan-esque wrote: | https://twitter.com/its_chri5tian/status/1307887722187509762?s=21 |
Real question: what was going through everyone's heads when he shot it? He was gonna make or miss? It happened to half to decide?
Second question: how loud did you scream? _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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lar9149 Star Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 2342
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Don’t know anyone has mentioned it.
But was very Impressed with AD defense on Murray. There just aren’t big men that can guard a smaller guy Like this.
If the Lakers play the Celtics and Tatum goes off, we may need this. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39322
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
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j-dawg wrote: | Dreamshake wrote: | j-dawg
The same argument can’t be used for Garnett. Garnett was routinely in the playoffs, not the lotto. He wasn’t routinely losing most of his games, even when he had inferior talent. His ability to play as opposed to Davis staying hurt had a lot to do with that though.
Davis will get a bump when y’all win for sure, but I don’t think he will get placed above those dudes winning as LeBron’s star support. For comparisons:
- I don’t think Wade is rated as high if he didn’t win as the main guy in 06
- Worthy won as a great 2nd option. Finals MVP too right? Is he ever ranked above the best SFs ever? |
I disagree with the argument, even though I think Garnett should be rated higher than Davis right now
I do agree that KG has been healthier than Davis in their first 7 seasons. Because Garnett has been on the floor more than Davis, it is natural that he has a higher regular season winning percentage. It should also be higher because he has played with more Former/present/future All Stars on his teams. But then we get to talking about the playoffs...
Since you put an emphasis on discounting players winning with other Stars (because you use LeBron as an argument against Davis’ success this year), how many championships as KG won as the #1 option on his team?
How many championships have Malone and Barkley won not just in the first 7 years of their career, but for their entire careers?
Heck...
How many times has KG gotten out of the first round of the playoffs as the #1 option on his team? Not just the first 7 years, but for his entire career?
Hint: it’s all the same as Davis, who is still 27 and entering his prime and playing with an actual Future HOF player for the first time in his career |
Don't forget to remind him that was in an era where big men were favored. Dshake seems to ignore that winning is the most important thing, not who puts up the best stats. You can go 0-82 for 7 seasons for all I care, if you follow it up with some championships. No one cares about season records where teams didn't win the championships.
You know why people hate the Lakers so much... because we have 6 or 7 terrible seasons then we win more championships. Without the championships we would be an after thought like his Rockets. |
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