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al242
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
defense wrote:
It's laker tradition to call our stars soft i see

Has anyone called Kobe or Lebron soft? It seems like it's mostly restricted to skilled bigs like KAJ, Vlade, Pau, and I guess somehow Anthony Davis.


I often call Lebron soft, Kobe on the other hand is a straight assassin.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.


Laker fans called Duncan soft for years. It isn’t an insult, it is just a term for how some choose to play.


Stop making (bleep) up. Lakers fans did not call Duncan soft. How do you get away with these pure lies for all these years?? What kind of dirt do you have on DB that he lets you keep trolling on here?


Says the guy who joined in 2017.


Your best insult is mocking at another poster's join date to a Lakers forum? Grow up.


The point obviously zoomed over your head
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


No
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject:

Some of us play ball right? When you guard a big guy that plays in the post you are constantly pushing him out of the paint or pushing against him when he posts. Sure you can occasionally front, but then your screwed on the boards.

Ever have a big guy walk you under the basket EVERYTIME on a rebound?

No juice left of the offensive end if you're dealing with that the entire game.

#oldguybballknowledge
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:14 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


Not a fan of Tatum. He's so overhyped. And he's very inconsistent.
The thing about the AD trade. I supported it in the moment because I assumed we were getting a big 3. And letting go of that salary gave us the cap space to sign another max player.
Knowing what I know now. That the max cap space money would go to overpaying KCP and signing role players. I wish we kept Ingram in the AD trade if possible.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


Not a fan of Tatum. He's so overhyped. And he's very inconsistent.
The thing about the AD trade. I supported it in the moment because I assumed we were getting a big 3. And letting go of that salary gave us the cap space to sign another max player.
Knowing what I know now. That the max cap space money would go to overpaying KCP and signing role players. I wish we kept Ingram in the AD trade if possible.


Tatum = poor man's Kuzma
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I’d argue guys like Duncan, Dirk, KG had long careers bc they were able to preserve their bodies not banging 36mpg against centers.

Coming to this late, but do you moonlight as a sports physician?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:13 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.


Understood. But it's not unprecedented. I think AD would like to bottle up that 8-10mpg at center when he will throttle it up when it matters. I understand if he doesn't want to start the game banging with Jokic or Embiid.

If that's what AD wants, we better make sure that's what we give.

Ideally you'd want a nominal center who can space the floor better than JAV/Dwight, but that's all we have now. Boogie in theory could have been that but that's possible anymore.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
kikanga wrote:
governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


Not a fan of Tatum. He's so overhyped. And he's very inconsistent.
The thing about the AD trade. I supported it in the moment because I assumed we were getting a big 3. And letting go of that salary gave us the cap space to sign another max player.
Knowing what I know now. That the max cap space money would go to overpaying KCP and signing role players. I wish we kept Ingram in the AD trade if possible.


Tatum = poor man's Kuzma


Tatum = Magic’s folly
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.


Understood. But it's not unprecedented. I think AD would like to bottle up that 8-10mpg at center when he will throttle it up when it matters. I understand if he doesn't want to start the game banging with Jokic or Embiid.

If that's what AD wants, we better make sure that's what we give.

Ideally you'd want a nominal center who can space the floor better than JAV/Dwight, but that's all we have now. Boogie in theory could have been that but that's possible anymore.

Once he's a $35M+ centerpiece on a capped out team (at least until Lebron leaves), the options seem to be 1) AD playing more C alongside hybrid forwards like Lebron and Kuz, 2) playing AD alongside rim running Cs like McGee and Howard, or 3) finding a floor-spacing C who can also bang against the jumbo post bigs who still get big minutes.

The 2nd option is the cheapest as roll bigs have become devalued and fairly fungible, but it's also going to gum up an offense centered around Lebron/AD because non-spacing, non-passing true Cs like McGee and Howard are going to stand around in no-man's land unguarded, thumbs up their butts, and the occasional cool Lebron to AD to McGee alley-oop won't be able to paper over the deleterious effect having McGee or Howard out there with AD will be. The goal should be to open up the floor for AD/Lebron PnR/PnP action, not using AD as a floor-spacer for limited lob dunkers like McGee.

The 3rd option is usually the most expensive, but there are value plays out there like Lopez last summer (thanks Magic) and Boogie this summer. That's where Noah, as decrepit as he is, was at least flashing some extended range last season and has always been a plus passer and decisionmaker, especially on short rolls. Maybe Marc Gasol wants to finish up his career in LA? But generally the guys that fit this mold for value are aging, coming off of injury, are young guys who fall in the draft for some reason (a reason not to let Aric Holman go), or are Brook Lopez on a team run by Magic Johnson.

This team needs good perimeter players and threw bodies at the problem this summer, but AD (and Kuz to a far lesser extent) gives the Lakers the roster flexibility to do just that. Going forward they need to put their limited financial resources towards quality over quantity in the backcourt, and expending any significant portion of that insignificant capital in order to find AD a frontcourt running mate is devaluing the roster every year before the season even starts. The whole point of committing your team's present and future to a big man like Davis is that he's one of the few bigs in the league who won't be played off the floor in a playoff series against Curry, Lillard, Harden, etc. Of course you want other cheap Cs on the roster, but a team with AD needs to play AD more than token minutes in the middle in both the regular season and playoffs to maximize your team's success.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

I think AD knows sort of like Pau, he is not built for being a full time 5. It is the same with Porzingis. They are many players in the league like that. They know if they play 5 all the time, it is an injury waiting to happen and lots of other issues they have to deal with longterm that is naked to us as a viewer from the outside. Banging down low and having to box out as well as deal with most of the power players, being a primary pick setter, all those sort of things, I think AD wants to be more of the guy they help reap the benefits of, rather than him doing that for others.

I am 100 percent sure AD would close games at the 5 if that is the plan and it should be part of the plan. So long as when playoffs come around and he plays all out and we can utilize his vast array of skills, I am more than ok with his attitude about wanting to play the 4. It is his prime. There is no doubt at some point in his career, in his 30s age wise, he will move full time to the 5. Why make him do it now, when he still has a speed and size advantage at the 4. I get it. I did not initially, but after watching a ton of videos of him this summer, I get it why he wants to be a 4.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.


Why does it matter if the 5 doesn't stretch the floor so long as AD can do that? As long as he's on the court you can figure out the spacing.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.


Why does it matter if the 5 doesn't stretch the floor so long as AD can do that? As long as he's on the court you can figure out the spacing.

I hate to quote myself, but:
Quote:
The goal should be to open up the floor for AD/Lebron PnR/PnP action, not to use AD as a floor-spacer for limited lob dunkers like McGee.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:33 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


No


Why not? Tatum isn’t exactly lighting the world up? One run of playoffs is not going to tell me otherwise.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
manlisten wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It’s funny how guys like KG, Dirk and Duncan for years didn’t want to play “center” and that was just fine with folks. But when AD says the same he’s soft.

He's not soft, he's just being a bit selfish. I don't blame him, he only gets one career and is up for a big payday next summer, but it again highlights the risk of sacrificing the franchise's future draft flexibility through 2025 to build around a center who doesn't want to play center.


I think it will be like Duncan/KG when they didn't want to be a starting center. They sure finished games at "center." It will happen but I don't see him being a starting "center" for a while. We will trot out our equivalent of Oberto/Nesterovic/Splitter (i.e. nominal starting centers) alongside AD.

Right, I just think it's an antiquated idea to give more than token minutes to a non-floor-spacing big next to AD. You're making your team worse to appease him and cover for poor roster construction/bad luck. For this season I guess it's fine, but I think the front office and coaches might want to see what they have in a AD/Kuz/Lebron frontcourt for more than token minutes before next summer.


Why does it matter if the 5 doesn't stretch the floor so long as AD can do that? As long as he's on the court you can figure out the spacing.

I hate to quote myself, but:
Quote:
The goal should be to open up the floor for AD/Lebron PnR/PnP action, not to use AD as a floor-spacer for limited lob dunkers like McGee.


I think you're looking at it too black and white. LeBron and AD aren't going to be hampered on offense by McGee's presence. Not to say that a stretch big next to them wouldn't be useful, just to say that McGee won't exactly be hurtful. You're also discounting the value of his rim protection.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

The only problem is that guys like JAV/Dwight will have to be in the dunker's spot on the baseline which means their defender will be at the rim against LBJ/AD too. If we had a stretch center, they could theoretically pull them further away from the rim.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject:

We have a stretch center, he's just going to spend most of his time at power forward. The Warriors won two championships with a frontcourt of Draymond and Zaza. The NBA game is not so dogmatic that you must have a stretch 5 in order to contend. I'm not sure where that idea even comes from since it's never actually come to fruition on the court.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
defense wrote:
It's laker tradition to call our stars soft i see

Has anyone called Kobe or Lebron soft? It seems like it's mostly restricted to skilled bigs like KAJ, Vlade, Pau, and I guess somehow Anthony Davis.


I often call Lebron soft, Kobe on the other hand is a straight assassin.



Kareem or Kobe soft!?!?!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:23 pm    Post subject:

He will play the 5 to close games for sure.

Bradley
LeBron
Green
Kuzma
AD


If the defense is holding up try Daniels at PG
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
kikanga wrote:
governator wrote:
Season need to start now! Preseason at least!
Just bored, hypothetical, had we drafted Tatum instead of Ball, would you guys give up Tatum and BI along with Hart and those picks for AD?


Not a fan of Tatum. He's so overhyped. And he's very inconsistent.
The thing about the AD trade. I supported it in the moment because I assumed we were getting a big 3. And letting go of that salary gave us the cap space to sign another max player.
Knowing what I know now. That the max cap space money would go to overpaying KCP and signing role players. I wish we kept Ingram in the AD trade if possible.


Tatum = poor man's Kuzma


Tatum = Magic’s folly


What the hell has Tatum done? I thought that only East Coast biased celtics lovers were on his overhype train.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I think AD knows sort of like Pau, he is not built for being a full time 5. It is the same with Porzingis. They are many players in the league like that. They know if they play 5 all the time, it is an injury waiting to happen and lots of other issues they have to deal with longterm that is naked to us as a viewer from the outside. Banging down low and having to box out as well as deal with most of the power players, being a primary pick setter, all those sort of things, I think AD wants to be more of the guy they help reap the benefits of, rather than him doing that for others.

I am 100 percent sure AD would close games at the 5 if that is the plan and it should be part of the plan. So long as when playoffs come around and he plays all out and we can utilize his vast array of skills, I am more than ok with his attitude about wanting to play the 4. It is his prime. There is no doubt at some point in his career, in his 30s age wise, he will move full time to the 5. Why make him do it now, when he still has a speed and size advantage at the 4. I get it. I did not initially, but after watching a ton of videos of him this summer, I get it why he wants to be a 4.

This is low key disrespectful to AD. I mean...I love Pau, but come on...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The only problem is that guys like JAV/Dwight will have to be in the dunker's spot on the baseline which means their defender will be at the rim against LBJ/AD too. If we had a stretch center, they could theoretically pull them further away from the rim.

This is correct. Howard and McGee have near nil offensive utility except as roll men, so when they're on the court with Lebron and AD their defender will be free to clog the paint. It's really simple stuff.
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