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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:30 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
This was your original retort to me bringing up DWS. Notice how you yourself say “challenging more shots is one thing that leads to fewer rebounds thus lowering win shares,” but the volume of attempts AD has more at attempted blocks closer to the rim, Giannis makes up in defending more shots on the perimeter. So your argument is flawed.

Not to mention minutes on the court is what impacts defensive win shares and as we see AD has more total minutes played (in fewer games) than Giannis does.

(MP/TMP*TDP*(1.08*LPPP-DRtg/100)/(0.32*LPPG*(TP/LP))

Where MP=Minutes Played, TMP=Team Minutes Played, TDP=Team Defensive Possession, LPPP=League Points Per Possession, DRtg=Defensive Rating, LPPG=League Points Per Game, TP=Team Pace, LP=League Pace

Defending shots is directly reflected by defensive win shares...the (bleep) you talking about?

I don’t know why you pushing back so much on this. It’s only my opinion that Giannis is DPoY over AD and the advanced metrics back it up. Still AD is definitely our own team’s DMVP and obviously I want him to win DPoY, but Giannis is balling right now, so AD’s gotta shift gears and go take it from dude.


I have confused DWS with DBPM, my bad.

Though you did mention AD has directly challenged more shots than Giannis, 244 to 171. Even accounting for the extra minutes Davis has played, AD still has a 231-171 advantage.

Some things to consider before dismissing Davis as DPoY over some team-dependent metrics...AD's Def Rating goes down when LeBron is on the bench. As you've pointed out, our offense sputters without Bron, which causes bad offensive possessions and easy opportunities in the form of transition/mismatches. AD has played 30% of his minutes without LeBron this year, and he obviously isn't the playmaker Giannis is.

Also, 33 of Giannis' 56 games played have been against teams currently under .500, compared to 27 of 52 for AD. So far, 7% more of Giannis' total games have been against easier opponents.

Now, Giannis is the MVP, and should be again this season. He is the best player for his team on both ends of the floor and this is extremely rare, but I hope the voters consider AD's individual efforts and metrics, rather than metrics that rely on 5-on-5 data.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:02 am    Post subject:

Seth Greenberg of ESPN was saying the other day that if you were starting a team today, Davis would be one of the top 3 players you’d choose from. That’s high praise coming from a coach. Unfortunately, it comes from a coach who passed on Steph Curry, at his Dell’s Alma Mater, because he said the guards he had were better. 😂🤣😂
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:50 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
This was your original retort to me bringing up DWS. Notice how you yourself say “challenging more shots is one thing that leads to fewer rebounds thus lowering win shares,” but the volume of attempts AD has more at attempted blocks closer to the rim, Giannis makes up in defending more shots on the perimeter. So your argument is flawed.

Not to mention minutes on the court is what impacts defensive win shares and as we see AD has more total minutes played (in fewer games) than Giannis does.

(MP/TMP*TDP*(1.08*LPPP-DRtg/100)/(0.32*LPPG*(TP/LP))

Where MP=Minutes Played, TMP=Team Minutes Played, TDP=Team Defensive Possession, LPPP=League Points Per Possession, DRtg=Defensive Rating, LPPG=League Points Per Game, TP=Team Pace, LP=League Pace

Defending shots is directly reflected by defensive win shares...the (bleep) you talking about?

I don’t know why you pushing back so much on this. It’s only my opinion that Giannis is DPoY over AD and the advanced metrics back it up. Still AD is definitely our own team’s DMVP and obviously I want him to win DPoY, but Giannis is balling right now, so AD’s gotta shift gears and go take it from dude.


I have confused DWS with DBPM, my bad.

Though you did mention AD has directly challenged more shots than Giannis, 244 to 171. Even accounting for the extra minutes Davis has played, AD still has a 231-171 advantage.

Some things to consider before dismissing Davis as DPoY over some team-dependent metrics...AD's Def Rating goes down when LeBron is on the bench. As you've pointed out, our offense sputters without Bron, which causes bad offensive possessions and easy opportunities in the form of transition/mismatches. AD has played 30% of his minutes without LeBron this year, and he obviously isn't the playmaker Giannis is.

Also, 33 of Giannis' 56 games played have been against teams currently under .500, compared to 27 of 52 for AD. So far, 7% more of Giannis' total games have been against easier opponents.

Now, Giannis is the MVP, and should be again this season. He is the best player for his team on both ends of the floor and this is extremely rare, but I hope the voters consider AD's individual efforts and metrics, rather than metrics that rely on 5-on-5 data.


But if you add up all the (bleep) attempts Giannis has defended vs AD, even I less total minutes on the court Giannis has defended 3277 shot attempts vs AD’s 3223 defended shot attempts.

Look, I’m with you in that AD is a beast defender and without him, our defense probably goes to (bleep). I want dude to win DPoY, but you can’t overlook what Giannis has done also on that end if the floor. He’s more than worthy of DPoY this year and as of right now, the metrics support him as the DPoY...although I will give you this, in terms if RAPTOR defensive ratings, those 2 are neck and neck with each other.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
But if you add up all the shot attempts Giannis has defended vs AD, even I less total minutes on the court Giannis has defended 3277 shot attempts vs AD’s 3223 defended shot attempts.

Look, I’m with you in that AD is a beast defender and without him, our defense probably goes to (bleep). I want dude to win DPoY, but you can’t overlook what Giannis has done also on that end if the floor. He’s more than worthy of DPoY this year and as of right now, the metrics support him as the DPoY...although I will give you this, in terms if RAPTOR defensive ratings, those 2 are neck and neck with each other.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/


I haven't looked too deep into RAPTOR, but I would favor granular data over 5-on-5 metrics such as Win Shares.

Giannis and his team have defended 3277 shot attempts to our 3223, and since Giannis has played fewer minutes, this indicates the Bucks play at a faster pace than the Lakers. (105 to 100.8)

If AD has challenged more shots directly than Giannis, despite the Lakers playing at a slower pace (thus fewer shots going up against the Lakers while AD is on the floor), this shows that AD is more an anchor on defense than Giannis. Yes, he has played more minutes, but the pace somewhat mitigates that.

AD has challenged ~40% more shots this season than Giannis, when adjusted for pace and minutes. Haven't looked into how well they play defense on the perimeter, but more data is needed than total shots while the two are on the floor.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:16 pm    Post subject:

Nice 2nd half AD!!!!
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levon
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Finally had a good game against the two other contenders. Can play even better.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:48 am    Post subject:

Load managing while playing like an MVP.
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lordtrapula
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject:

This game felt huge for AD's growth.

He was not good for 75% of the game but when it mattered most, he came through in the end.
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

Great game champ! Big time game
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BadGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Great game by AD, and he could be even better if he attacks decisively on the catch in the post against guys like Harrell (instead of waiting for the help defender to arrive and trying to make a tough pass cross-court over the defense).
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject:

great game brow. definitely wasnt soft out there.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Elite
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject:

That reverse slam is how you stick a dagger to those snakes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:53 pm    Post subject:

He seems to start out slow and warms up as the game progresses and by the 2nd half he's humming.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Clips got no one to defend AD.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Superstar.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Last 5 quarters from AD 👍
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hype
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Absolutely loved his last two games! All I was hoping to see was AD go harder on offense and not settle for the perimeter or fadeaways as much and he delivered. I'm cool with him not going in the paint as much again now until the Playoffs.

This team is so scary when both AD and Lebron are attacking and pretty much unbeatable if either one is hitting there outside shots.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject:

DPOY

https://twitter.com/JoeyARamirez/status/1237134155248332800?s=19
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deal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
Absolutely loved his last two games! All I was hoping to see was AD go harder on offense and not settle for the perimeter or fadeaways as much and he delivered. I'm cool with him not going in the paint as much again now until the Playoffs.

This team is so scary when both AD and Lebron are attacking and pretty much unbeatable if either one is hitting there outside shots.



TRUE !
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
DPOY

https://twitter.com/JoeyARamirez/status/1237134155248332800?s=19


I think Giannis will win it but AD is a great defensive player
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
32 wrote:
DPOY

https://twitter.com/JoeyARamirez/status/1237134155248332800?s=19


I think Giannis will win it but AD is a great defensive player


Wouldn't that be crazy if Giannis won MVP and DPOY?
I can't see that happening honestly.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:19 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
defense wrote:
32 wrote:
DPOY

https://twitter.com/JoeyARamirez/status/1237134155248332800?s=19


I think Giannis will win it but AD is a great defensive player


Wouldn't that be crazy if Giannis won MVP and DPOY?
I can't see that happening honestly.


Giannis will still likely win the MVP...DPOY is ADs though and everyone can save the % metrics.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:21 pm    Post subject:

Aggressive contact seeking AD is a beauty to watch
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
epic_ wrote:
defense wrote:
32 wrote:
DPOY

https://twitter.com/JoeyARamirez/status/1237134155248332800?s=19


I think Giannis will win it but AD is a great defensive player


Wouldn't that be crazy if Giannis won MVP and DPOY?
I can't see that happening honestly.


Giannis will still likely win the MVP...DPOY is ADs though and everyone can save the % metrics.


I actually hope none are Giannis'
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