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drae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I just do not get why we altered from a plan that won a ring, and upgraded our bench, and even found a Danny Green replacement in Wesley so cheaply.


If I recall correctly Vogel spends the beginning part of the year getting data on various lineups, and likes to change things after 5 game blocks. So being game 9 he'll probably have one more game, look at the data, then again might try something different.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
That's right, AD. Let our FO know they (bleep) up. You don't mess with a championship roster. As old saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broke. Now that they broke it, then they've gotta fix it.


Umm, we're 6-3 playing at like 60%. We're 9 games in...sheesh.


6-3 is irrelevant. Watch the games and look at what happened in the games. W-L doesn't always tell the whole story. I would actually be happier with 3-6 if our wins were against SA yesterday, against the Clippers and against Portland.

If you really want to look at W/L, then compared to last year we were 8-1 after 9 games. It's easy to make up excuses such as first game of season or the team is new and needs time to gel but then those excuses could be applied to all teams.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
That's right, AD. Let our FO know they (bleep) up. You don't mess with a championship roster. As old saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broke. Now that they broke it, then they've gotta fix it.


Umm, we're 6-3 playing at like 60%. We're 9 games in...sheesh.


6-3 is irrelevant. Watch the games and look at what happened in the games. W-L doesn't always tell the whole story. I would actually be happier with 3-6 if our wins were against SA yesterday, against the Clippers and against Portland.

If you really want to look at W/L, then compared to last year we were 8-1 after 9 games. It's easy to make up excuses such as first game of season or the team is new and needs time to gel but then those excuses could be applied to all teams.


Nah, you are missing the whole point. They are not playing at all at full speed right now. Everyone admitted such, including Vogel. Y'all need to calm down and enjoy the process.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:32 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers came out of the gates last year b/c:

1. LBJ had the longest rest of his career due to injury.
2. AD also missed a lot of the 2nd half of the season as the Pels sat him out to prevent injury.
3. LBJ/AD wanted to send a message to the NBA and they did.
4. Lakers weren't coming off of a grueling Finals run and less than 2.5 months off to start the season.

Relax.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
That's right, AD. Let our FO know they (bleep) up. You don't mess with a championship roster. As old saying goes, don't fix it if it ain't broke. Now that they broke it, then they've gotta fix it.


Umm, we're 6-3 playing at like 60%. We're 9 games in...sheesh.


6-3 is irrelevant. Watch the games and look at what happened in the games. W-L doesn't always tell the whole story. I would actually be happier with 3-6 if our wins were against SA yesterday, against the Clippers and against Portland.

If you really want to look at W/L, then compared to last year we were 8-1 after 9 games. It's easy to make up excuses such as first game of season or the team is new and needs time to gel but then those excuses could be applied to all teams.


Nah, you are missing the whole point. They are not playing at all at full speed right now. Everyone admitted such, including Vogel. Y'all need to calm down and enjoy the process.


We're assuming other teams are playing at 100% then? From watching the games, the problem with our defense isn't a lack of effort but rather talent. The effort is there. It's just that you could only try so much with what you have. Our lack of rim protection isn't a lack of effort and it is a huge problem that teams are beginning to exploit.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:37 pm    Post subject:

I've watched every game this season. We are playing nowhere close to what we did the first 20 games last year, and of course the playoffs. It was totally expected at least from my end. Look at the Heat. They're doing far worse.

if anything, finally watching LBJ play up close, it's to never rely on regular season performance for his team, especially given his age. We will start peaking when it's time. Right now, I give them a LOT of latitude to figure things out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject:

AD is playing very uninspired basketball.

Effort has been subpar and his defense (for his standards) has been horrible.

Losing Dwight and JaVale will prove costly for this team.

For a player with AD's injury history, it was such a luxury having Dwight and JaVale take the load off of AD's shoulders by banging at the 5.

Gasol alone is not the answer at the 5.

Becomes more and more obvious as the season goes on.

And we really havent even faced any teams with dominate bigs yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:53 pm    Post subject:

RashardA wrote:
AD is playing very uninspired basketball.

Effort has been subpar and his defense (for his standards) has been horrible.

Losing Dwight and JaVale will prove costly for this team.

For a player with AD's injury history, it was such a luxury having Dwight and JaVale take the load off of AD's shoulders by banging at the 5.

Gasol alone is not the answer at the 5.

Becomes more and more obvious as the season goes on.

And we really havent even faced any teams with dominate bigs yet.
.

People are honestly expecting max effort after the shortest layoff in sports history?

I expected AD and Lebron to straight up sit out games at this point.

We’re installing a new fence. We’re still 6-3. Chill.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Part of me wishes that the regular season is played behind closed doors, and fans only get to see the playoffs. This would greatly reduce the anxiety.

The Laker organisation has won my trust with last year's championship - they are in for the marathon and not the sprint. There can only be one champion and there are so many factors affecting this (health, talent, LUCK, etc..), but I believe Rob and the team will put us at the best vantage point to repeat.
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RashardA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
RashardA wrote:
AD is playing very uninspired basketball.

Effort has been subpar and his defense (for his standards) has been horrible.

Losing Dwight and JaVale will prove costly for this team.

For a player with AD's injury history, it was such a luxury having Dwight and JaVale take the load off of AD's shoulders by banging at the 5.

Gasol alone is not the answer at the 5.

Becomes more and more obvious as the season goes on.

And we really havent even faced any teams with dominate bigs yet.
.

People are honestly expecting max effort after the shortest layoff in sports history?

I expected AD and Lebron to straight up sit out games at this point.

We’re installing a new fence. We’re still 6-3. Chill.


Let's be clear here, no one is panicking.

Im merely pointing out what im seeing.

And yes, we are 6-3.

All 6 wins coming vs. bottom feeders.

Dallas with no Kristaps, Minny with no KAT, Spurs with no LMA and Memphis without their two best players.

Not really much to take from that if you ask me.

The competition will definitely get harder.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Really need to stop using the "shortest layoff in sports history" excuse.

Teams also had the "longest break before the playoffs in sports history" and also the "shortest end of the season playoff run in sports history"

Not arguing that last season wasn't incredibly odd in the formatting. Playing 60, taking off four months, coming back for 10 useless games then a 20 game playoff run.

The Lakers and Heat had 2 1/2 months to rest after that 30 game bubble sprint. They had time to rest, recover from minor injuries (no surgeries to my understanding?) and get in some workouts over that 70 days. Not sure how they got "out of shape" in that time?

It is about motivation and desire. Last season they wanted to prove a point. They proved one hell of a big one winning a Championship.

So far this season they are talking about desire, but are they proving anything? No worries, they are 6-3. But are they the "same" players we saw last year? It will be cool when those guys show up for this season.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Really need to stop using the "shortest layoff in sports history" excuse.

Teams also had the "longest break before the playoffs in sports history" and also the "shortest end of the season playoff run in sports history"

Not arguing that last season wasn't incredibly odd in the formatting. Playing 60, taking off four months, coming back for 10 useless games then a 20 game playoff run.

The Lakers and Heat had 2 1/2 months to rest after that 30 game bubble sprint. They had time to rest, recover from minor injuries (no surgeries to my understanding?) and get in some workouts over that 70 days. Not sure how they got "out of shape" in that time?

It is about motivation and desire. Last season they wanted to prove a point. They proved one hell of a big one winning a Championship.

So far this season they are talking about desire, but are they proving anything? No worries, they are 6-3. But are they the "same" players we saw last year? It will be cool when those guys show up for this season.


I'm sorry but this is ludicrous.

Heat are 11th in the East at 3-4.

Bucks, the vaunted #1 seed are 5-3 and in 6th in the East.

The Celtics have the same record as the Lakers and are 4th.

Nuggets, the WCF team, they're 12th in the West at 3-5.

Clearly, the Bubble playoffs are having an effect on the teams that played way until the end.

The short turnaround greatly affected the deep playoff teams. Normally players have months to rest and then ramp up training. Lakers/Heat didn't have that. Except Lakers are still 3rd in the West playing at around 60% effort.
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pokoy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject:

I agree with wolf in that the concern is we took a championship winning identity and changed it completely. We bullied teams with our size last year, we will not be doing the same this season. Not saying we can’t win the championship, just saying this isn’t how we won in the last year. (EDIT - in the regular season)

That said, remember 2001. We started off 8-11. I believe the Shaq and Kobe rift started this season as well. We lost glen rice and started Rick Fox and started playing Derek Fisher more minutes than Ron Harper. Note that the previous year, we figured out our “death lineup” included Fox and Fisher in. We got everyone healthy by the playoffs, figured out our chemistry, and won the chip easily.

Our death lineup last season was AD, Bron, and three wings (including KCP and Caruso). As long as we make it to the playoffs, we should still have that core together for another run. My main concern is health and peaking at the right time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
RashardA wrote:
AD is playing very uninspired basketball.

Effort has been subpar and his defense (for his standards) has been horrible.

Losing Dwight and JaVale will prove costly for this team.

For a player with AD's injury history, it was such a luxury having Dwight and JaVale take the load off of AD's shoulders by banging at the 5.

Gasol alone is not the answer at the 5.

Becomes more and more obvious as the season goes on.

And we really havent even faced any teams with dominate bigs yet.
.

People are honestly expecting max effort after the shortest layoff in sports history?

I expected AD and Lebron to straight up sit out games at this point.

We’re installing a new fence. We’re still 6-3. Chill.

I don’t understand this. Why are people excusing AD? He’s 27 years old just a few years into his prime. I expect LeBron to coast who’s nearby 10 years older but even he’s showed more urgency on both ends, so much so that he’s currently leading the MVP race. That should be AD. But, for whatever reason he got his first win, got paid and is playing uninspired ball. His legacy is not solidified yet. I get it the first two weeks but now he needs to show more urgency. I hope fans continue to call him out for his disinterest on defense. We need him to be at least average to good.
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drae
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject:

pokoy wrote:
I agree with wolf in that the concern is we took a championship winning identity and changed it completely. We bullied teams with our size last year, we will not be doing the same this season. Not saying we can’t win the championship, just saying this isn’t how we won in the last year. (EDIT - in the regular season)

That said, remember 2001. We started off 8-11. I believe the Shaq and Kobe rift started this season as well. We lost glen rice and started Rick Fox and started playing Derek Fisher more minutes than Ron Harper. Note that the previous year, we figured out our “death lineup” included Fox and Fisher in. We got everyone healthy by the playoffs, figured out our chemistry, and won the chip easily.

Our death lineup last season was AD, Bron, and three wings (including KCP and Caruso). As long as we make it to the playoffs, we should still have that core together for another run. My main concern is health and peaking at the right time.


100% this

Also the above reactions is why I generally avoid this site after losses. Too much over-reaction
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject:

pokoy wrote:
I agree with wolf in that the concern is we took a championship winning identity and changed it completely. We bullied teams with our size last year, we will not be doing the same this season. Not saying we can’t win the championship, just saying this isn’t how we won in the last year. (EDIT - in the regular season)

That said, remember 2001. We started off 8-11. I believe the Shaq and Kobe rift started this season as well. We lost glen rice and started Rick Fox and started playing Derek Fisher more minutes than Ron Harper. Note that the previous year, we figured out our “death lineup” included Fox and Fisher in. We got everyone healthy by the playoffs, figured out our chemistry, and won the chip easily.

Our death lineup last season was AD, Bron, and three wings (including KCP and Caruso). As long as we make it to the playoffs, we should still have that core together for another run. My main concern is health and peaking at the right time.


You don’t burn out the team using the death lineup as a starting lineup over the course of a long regular season. It should be used modestly and in games that really count.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
pokoy wrote:
I agree with wolf in that the concern is we took a championship winning identity and changed it completely. We bullied teams with our size last year, we will not be doing the same this season. Not saying we can’t win the championship, just saying this isn’t how we won in the last year. (EDIT - in the regular season)

That said, remember 2001. We started off 8-11. I believe the Shaq and Kobe rift started this season as well. We lost glen rice and started Rick Fox and started playing Derek Fisher more minutes than Ron Harper. Note that the previous year, we figured out our “death lineup” included Fox and Fisher in. We got everyone healthy by the playoffs, figured out our chemistry, and won the chip easily.

Our death lineup last season was AD, Bron, and three wings (including KCP and Caruso). As long as we make it to the playoffs, we should still have that core together for another run. My main concern is health and peaking at the right time.


You don’t burn out the team using the death lineup as a starting lineup over the course of a long regular season. It should be used modestly and in games that really count.


Right I agree. I think that’s what Rob was going for when he signed Trez and Dennis thinking that they could carry us through the regular season, but it’s backfiring a bit because we aren’t wearing teams out as much now that we are no longer the physical bullies we were last season.

But still, like I said, it doesn’t mean we can’t win the chip, and that there aren’t any concerns. It’s mostly, just get to the playoffs healthy and in a good rhythm. I’m trusting the coaching staff to figure out how to make this roster work for the rest of the season though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject:

27 years old entering his prime, sitting games out, and lazily coasting while Lebron at 36 going strong and playing with more effort. SMH
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:59 pm    Post subject:

Just wanna be clear that while I am not sure why we are playing on a way that does not maximize our strengths, I do fully believe we have the talent to win, and agree the return lineups should be kept fresh for later in the season.

I just don’t want use to lose our identity by playoffs - it’s an AD/Bron centric team with excellent 2-way role players, a team that plays big and physical and defends its ass off.

Maybe I’m silly to think a team that has Dennis and Trez is still a 2 star team with that model, but I believe it can still be. We don’t have to change identities, because we still do have AD (well not tonight), Bron and a lot of two way wings/guards

2-way wings/big guards
KCP
Wesley
THT possible

2-way guards
Dennis
Caruso

Stretch 4s
Kieff
Kuz

Talents there to play exactly how we won.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:49 am    Post subject:

ramirezmu8 wrote:
27 years old entering his prime, sitting games out, and lazily coasting while Lebron at 36 going strong and playing with more effort. SMH


Not gonna lie, this irked me too. Maybe he is legit hurt because his overall effort has been ass this year.

He should be hungry for an MVP this year and taking the reigns from Bron.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:35 am    Post subject:

Davis seems content to have won 1 ring. He's playing like someone who feels he no longer has to play hard every night. I've always been against load management and half assing games.

I was also against breaking our defense tested team for this offensively strong but unproven bunch of guys. We will see how it all turns out.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:40 am    Post subject:

ramirezmu8 wrote:
27 years old entering his prime, sitting games out, and lazily coasting while Lebron at 36 going strong and playing with more effort. SMH


With the reduced time off between seasons I have no problem working a little load management in when it's an viable option. Second night of a back to back against a lower tier team is the perfect opportunity to rest one of our key pieces. I'm sure LBJ will take the opportunity as well at some point. As Chick used to say, "No harm, no foul."
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject:

With Davis it's not about tired legs, it's about risk of injury given his play-style/body-type. It's absolutely critical we have a fully-healthy Davis come playoffs and these early-season games will be forgotten by then.
That said I also think he's inexperienced and doesn't quite know how to achieve a balance between coasting and giving it his all; not unexpected given that this is his first championship unlike Lebron who has been doing this (managing his body for long playoff runs) for a decade and the difference is clear to see.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject:

It just doesn’t look good for him to “ look” as if he is not playing with the intensity levels we know he can play at. Then call out the team for playing “(bleep) defense” . Only to take the next night off for abductor tightness (sprained thigh?) as a precaution?

Bottom line, Davis is not playing like the MVP candidate we all expected and frankly should expect from himself. Why? More importantly how does that change the next 10 game block?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject:

double post?

Last edited by Four Decade Bandwagon on Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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