Official ANTHONY DAVIS Thread (2/15: calf strain, will be re-evaluated in 2-3 wks)
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:43 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
https://twitter.com/pickuphoop/status/1361485583315591171?s=21

Glad to see he is ok and walking fine.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:51 pm    Post subject:

shoulder doc wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
With any injury there is a spectrum. That's why we are always guessing from afar without the medical chart.

Calf strain means achilles issue period. We can get into semantics of tendon, paratenon it's the achilles.

Best case, his MRI the tendon looks totally fine and he feels better in a couple of weeks and is back to normal. A bad scenario is degeneration of the tendon on MRI that can be 50/50 whether it responds to rest and rehab and that would be 2-3 months. Worse case is he does not get better and that tendon is a ticking time bomb ready to rupture.

What happened with KD likely is he had tendon degeneration, came back too soon and ruptured it right away. We will never know if he would have gotten better if they took more time off.


Thanks. How easy/hard is it to diagnose degeneration? In other words, is it something that is apparent from an MRI, or is it something that becomes apparent only when it causes significant problems?


Not sure if I clearly answered your question in my previous post. MRI technology is really good these days so you can usually see degeneration pretty clearly. That being said, we won't know in the public how the MRI really looks and have to keep our fingers crossed.


That's reassuring. From what you're saying, it sounds like degeneration would be the most likely path to a long-term problem. If it's there, the doctors should be able to detect it and act accordingly. I'd be a lot more worried if degeneration was something that was hard to detect.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
With any injury there is a spectrum. That's why we are always guessing from afar without the medical chart.

Calf strain means achilles issue period. We can get into semantics of tendon, paratenon it's the achilles.

Best case, his MRI the tendon looks totally fine and he feels better in a couple of weeks and is back to normal. A bad scenario is degeneration of the tendon on MRI that can be 50/50 whether it responds to rest and rehab and that would be 2-3 months. Worse case is he does not get better and that tendon is a ticking time bomb ready to rupture.

What happened with KD likely is he had tendon degeneration, came back too soon and ruptured it right away. We will never know if he would have gotten better if they took more time off.


Thanks. How easy/hard is it to diagnose degeneration? In other words, is it something that is apparent from an MRI, or is it something that becomes apparent only when it causes significant problems?


Not sure if I clearly answered your question in my previous post. MRI technology is really good these days so you can usually see degeneration pretty clearly. That being said, we won't know in the public how the MRI really looks and have to keep our fingers crossed.


That's reassuring. From what you're saying, it sounds like degeneration would be the most likely path to a long-term problem. If it's there, the doctors should be able to detect it and act accordingly. I'd be a lot more worried if degeneration was something that was hard to detect.


Although nothing is 100% with imaging diagnosis so there's always uncertainty. The bigger concern is if he has degeneration and it doesn't respond to rest and rehab it becomes a long term issue. It's the specific anatomy of the achilles that makes it so tricky. The blood supply, the tremendous force on that tendon, the importance of that structure etc.
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lakerfansd
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Damn short turnaround from the offseason.


Was thinking same thing.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject:

I wonder if AD was tipped off about this (degeneration) long ago, hence his signing a long term with us...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Relieved it wasn't a tear, I can deal with a strain. Let him rest, recover and let's repeat.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject:

Give him as much rest as possible so that he's ready for the playoffs. If he isn't healthy by then I would shut him down for the season. Look at the KD and Klay injuries you don't want to lose him for next season as well if he does go down and reaggravate it.

Last edited by lakersken80 on Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject:

lakerfansd wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Damn short turnaround from the offseason.


Was thinking same thing.

Crazy thing is, the players wanted the short turnaround as well, in order to have a season, and get paid.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject:

I had a similar injury, and almost the same movement caused it too. When your ankle dorsiflexes past your active range of motion...you can strain your Achilles and/or calf...which is what I did and seems like AD too. Took me about 3 months to return to normal.

For rehab I worked a lot on strengthening my feet and ankles. Started with balancing on one foot for time and then progressed eventually to lots of exercises while barefoot, which included tons of loaded carries(walking with weights), jump rope, and short hurdle jumps. The idea is to strengthen the stabilizing muscles in your feet and ankles.

I was told a lot of athletes don’t train the eccentric and isometric phases of exercises. Lots of guys can explode but if your limbs aren’t strong enough to brake and redirect force...injuries occur. I spent lots of time with lower body exercises lowering weight slowly and doing static holds too.

Look at ADs back foot as he pushes off the ground with his negative step when he faced up Jokic... his heel was super close to the floor which is a sign of excessive dorsiflexion. Happened to me and had to strengthen my feet to withstand explosive movements when pushing off by being able to keep my feet and ankles stable.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:30 pm    Post subject:

I strained the hell out of my calf like 5 years ago. It took like 6-8 months to be 100% clear of pain. It sucked. I was chasing a soccer ball, lol.

Even before covid, there were a rash of injuries, and calls to shorten the season. Then they rush to the new season. Stupid.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:35 pm    Post subject:

I strained my Achilles/Calf when I had a hurt knee, I was over compensating and more of the load went to different areas. They need to make sure he is 100 percent and his lower body is aligned properly
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 pm    Post subject:

Hammett wrote:
I strained the hell out of my calf like 5 years ago. It took like 6-8 months to be 100% clear of pain. It sucked. I was chasing a soccer ball, lol.

Even before covid, there were a rash of injuries, and calls to shorten the season. Then they rush to the new season. Stupid.

There are different grades of strains.
AD was walking fine today and in good spirits based on the Instagram video from Trezz, so I guess we can just hope for the best
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:58 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Hammett wrote:
I strained the hell out of my calf like 5 years ago. It took like 6-8 months to be 100% clear of pain. It sucked. I was chasing a soccer ball, lol.

Even before covid, there were a rash of injuries, and calls to shorten the season. Then they rush to the new season. Stupid.

There are different grades of strains.
AD was walking fine today and in good spirits based on the Instagram video from Trezz, so I guess we can just hope for the best


I don’t want to sound rude but come on, a athlete suffering a calf strain is a lot different then a normal person suffering a calf-strain these guys have a lot of resources to speed up the process, it’s completely different.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:27 pm    Post subject:

shoulder doc wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
Not sure if I clearly answered your question in my previous post. MRI technology is really good these days so you can usually see degeneration pretty clearly. That being said, we won't know in the public how the MRI really looks and have to keep our fingers crossed.


That's reassuring. From what you're saying, it sounds like degeneration would be the most likely path to a long-term problem. If it's there, the doctors should be able to detect it and act accordingly. I'd be a lot more worried if degeneration was something that was hard to detect.


Although nothing is 100% with imaging diagnosis so there's always uncertainty. The bigger concern is if he has degeneration and it doesn't respond to rest and rehab it becomes a long term issue. It's the specific anatomy of the achilles that makes it so tricky. The blood supply, the tremendous force on that tendon, the importance of that structure etc.


Sure, I appreciate that there are no guarantees when it comes to an Achilles issue. My concern would be that Davis would start playing again because he feels okay (as you say, pain and pain thresholds are individualized), not realizing that he has a degeneration issue. From what you are saying, that would appear to be unlikely, because degeneration will usually be detectable. Whether it responds to rest and rehab (if it exists) is a different issue. Knowing how competitive NBA players tend to be, and knowing how much a guy like Davis wants to be out on the court, my concern would be that he would force his way back into the lineup while unaware that he has a degeneration issue. From what you are saying, if there is a degeneration issue, Davis and the doctors are likely to know about it. Conversely, if he starts playing again, that signals to us that Davis and his doctors have looked at the MRIs and are not worried about degeneration.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:10 am    Post subject:

A month will go a long way in this. I do not believe a guy his age and with elite athleticism needs more than that. The thing is when he does return, it is critical they take it easy on him and load manage his minutes. No back to backs. Maybe a minutes ceiling of 28-30. Then pick it up gradually based on his response.

This happened because likely AD was stubborn and wanted to play through an injury. It is ok. Worst case was avoided. Our ring hopes for this season are not dashed. We just have to be careful upon his return and I am sure medical staff will be working real hard with him on his strength on his calf and those areas.

The worry is Bron. How much do we push him now. I really wish we do not go overboard with relying on him. This next month will maybe cost us a chance at the #1 seed in the playoffs if we do not push Bron, we just need to stay competitive and within the top 3 of the West, then make a strong push post-ASB.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:13 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Hammett wrote:
I strained the hell out of my calf like 5 years ago. It took like 6-8 months to be 100% clear of pain. It sucked. I was chasing a soccer ball, lol.

Even before covid, there were a rash of injuries, and calls to shorten the season. Then they rush to the new season. Stupid.

There are different grades of strains.
AD was walking fine today and in good spirits based on the Instagram video from Trezz, so I guess we can just hope for the best


I don’t want to sound rude but come on, a athlete suffering a calf strain is a lot different then a normal person suffering a calf-strain these guys have a lot of resources to speed up the process, it’s completely different.


Was thinking the same thing. AD recovering with the best doctors/trainers in the world should hopefully take less time than 40-50 year old dads can recover with average or below average doctors/trainers.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 am    Post subject:

I had almost same injury and I am 33. I recovered in 1,5 months with normal doctors. So in his case shouldn't be more than 1 month. Lakers facilities, best doctors in the world, whatever amount of money available. I am not afraid at all. Lets him play beginning of April and that's it. We don't need him for regular season anyway. There is more than enough players to manage regular.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject:

Technically, we don't really need AD until about a month before the playoffs. Playoff seating won't mean much due to not having crowds, and the Lakers play more focused on the road anyway. We are high enough in the standings that we won't have to worry about slipping too much.

Move Harrell to the 4 and tell Rob to earn his paycheck and get a damned center on this team. AD will come back fresh for the playoffs, with that 1 month to get back into rhythm.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:49 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
shoulder doc wrote:
Not sure if I clearly answered your question in my previous post. MRI technology is really good these days so you can usually see degeneration pretty clearly. That being said, we won't know in the public how the MRI really looks and have to keep our fingers crossed.


That's reassuring. From what you're saying, it sounds like degeneration would be the most likely path to a long-term problem. If it's there, the doctors should be able to detect it and act accordingly. I'd be a lot more worried if degeneration was something that was hard to detect.


Although nothing is 100% with imaging diagnosis so there's always uncertainty. The bigger concern is if he has degeneration and it doesn't respond to rest and rehab it becomes a long term issue. It's the specific anatomy of the achilles that makes it so tricky. The blood supply, the tremendous force on that tendon, the importance of that structure etc.


Sure, I appreciate that there are no guarantees when it comes to an Achilles issue. My concern would be that Davis would start playing again because he feels okay (as you say, pain and pain thresholds are individualized), not realizing that he has a degeneration issue. From what you are saying, that would appear to be unlikely, because degeneration will usually be detectable. Whether it responds to rest and rehab (if it exists) is a different issue. Knowing how competitive NBA players tend to be, and knowing how much a guy like Davis wants to be out on the court, my concern would be that he would force his way back into the lineup while unaware that he has a degeneration issue. From what you are saying, if there is a degeneration issue, Davis and the doctors are likely to know about it. Conversely, if he starts playing again, that signals to us that Davis and his doctors have looked at the MRIs and are not worried about degeneration.


One of my favorite movie scenes is the doctor one in Catch me if you can.
Regarding the above statement: I concur!

They are likely to know what's really going on as they have the real complete picture that we are speculating on: direct physical exam, AD feedback, US, MRI images. Although as a physician, I always have some background baseline worry about patients. In this particular case, they should be cautious and would expect another MRI prior to him returning to the court.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:00 am    Post subject:

These are good points being made about how AD has basically unlimited resources in terms of medical staff, equipment, etc to help with his recovery.

However, respectfully to other posters, there is a different level of body stress that is needed to be an NBA player, a top 5 one at that. What the patient has to put his/her body through is a very important factor in when you're considered recovery. So take a common operation like a rotator cuff repair: the time for recovery is very different from a desk job to a construction worker.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Vogel just said during the post game that AD will be out 4 weeks after he got re-evaluated upon his return to L.A.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:30 pm    Post subject:

In case this hasn’t been said here yet.


TDRock wrote:
FOUR WEEKS TO AD

We’re gonna need some of y’all to suit up

Per McTen

Frank Vogel says Anthony Davis was re-evaluated by team doctors tonight and he will be out four weeks. The Lakers want to give him time to fully recover.

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1362641499490451458?s=21

That four-week period is an estimation, according to a team spokesperson, and includes the time it would be necessary for AD to rehab and recover as well as ramp up in practices and workouts in order to return to game action

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1362642870952284162?s=21
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject:

Yep, I said a month would be about what I expect before that announcement. It is not an actual tear, it is a calf strain.

What is more important is when AD does come back, he be on a program for minutes, no B2Bs and a lot of precaution with him.

AD will dominate real quick when fresh, but the Lakers should not even consider playing him full schedule until they are very confident that he is not pain after games.

That (playing games without pain) is the key. The risk of a serious season ending injury is always going to be there for guys built like AD, KD, etc. There is no way you can ever play a guy like AD and not have any risk of a season ending injury.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:51 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Yep, I said a month would be about what I expect before that announcement. It is not an actual tear, it is a calf strain.

What is more important is when AD does come back, he be on a program for minutes, no B2Bs and a lot of precaution with him.

AD will dominate real quick when fresh, but the Lakers should not even consider playing him full schedule until they are very confident that he is not pain after games.

That (playing games without pain) is the key. The risk of a serious season ending injury is always going to be there for guys built like AD, KD, etc. There is no way you can ever play a guy like AD and not have any risk of a season ending injury.


It will also come down on team success. If we can hold the fort the more we can buy AD time to rest. Schro might miss multiple games. Next 7 games will be crucial if we dont have Schro for 3-5 games.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:49 am    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
In case this hasn’t been said here yet.


TDRock wrote:
FOUR WEEKS TO AD

We’re gonna need some of y’all to suit up

Per McTen

Frank Vogel says Anthony Davis was re-evaluated by team doctors tonight and he will be out four weeks. The Lakers want to give him time to fully recover.

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1362641499490451458?s=21

That four-week period is an estimation, according to a team spokesperson, and includes the time it would be necessary for AD to rehab and recover as well as ramp up in practices and workouts in order to return to game action

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1362642870952284162?s=21


The correct decision
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