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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2563
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: |
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cal1piggy wrote: | CandyCanes wrote: |
<snip>
THT for KCP, who says no? |
insanity |
Make it Vinsanity from 2000 and you've got yourself a deal |
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fansincemagic Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 11048
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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His fresh legs not getting burn in OT is telling. They finally subbed AB, but they have to live or die with this kid or deal him. |
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Laker4lifer4real Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2017 Posts: 3472
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:57 am Post subject: |
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fansincemagic wrote: | His fresh legs not getting burn in OT is telling. They finally subbed AB, but they have to live or die with this kid or deal him. |
Once he hit his first 3 vs Pistons he looked much more confident on his way to 12 points. When he plays with confidence he looks great. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:44 am Post subject: |
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This is why Kobe was such a badass.. Tapes of who.. his opponents.. since day one..
THT might have worked on some individual skills but he also needs to figure out how to break down defenses and his opponents weaknesses and tendencies etc.. He earned that responsibility when he signed the contract |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26087
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:04 am Post subject: |
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I think THT should be coming off the bench. He'd get more offensive opportunities and it should help out his playstyle a little more.
I think Monk is the better fit for the starting lineup unless THT starts using that "Kawhi" defense everyone thought he had going for him due to his hands and wingspan. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:01 am Post subject: |
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fansincemagic wrote: | His fresh legs not getting burn in OT is telling. They finally subbed AB, but they have to live or die with this kid or deal him. |
Deal him. He's the best means we have to improve this roster and IMO nobody is going to look back in 3-5 years regret it if we win a title. Now, can we win a title with said win now player? Thats a whole separate conversation. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26087
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:24 am Post subject: |
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No one you're trading THT for is gonna be more of a difference maker in terms of us winning a title or not as LeBron, AD and Westbrook are ultimately going to be.
Getting rid of THT right now would be the same old same old of "Give up on people cause they aren't an all-star before they're 21" mentality that we should have learned a lesson from with Russell, Lonzo, Randle and Ingram. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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hype Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4369 Location: Lake Nacimiento
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | No one you're trading THT for is gonna be more of a difference maker in terms of us winning a title or not as LeBron, AD and Westbrook are ultimately going to be.
Getting rid of THT right now would be the same old same old of "Give up on people cause they aren't an all-star before they're 21" mentality that we should have learned a lesson from with Russell, Lonzo, Randle and Ingram. |
yup, unless we got some steal of a deal i'd hate to trade him personally.. Him and Reaves are the only homegrown talents we have left that have legitimate talent. It would be nice to at least keep these two guys.. I think THT still has plenty of potential to grow into as well he's still VERY far from a finished product.
But once again if we get some insane return then of course you do it without thinking twice. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Homegrown is worth it if you're getting a Kobe, West, Magic.
Not if you're getting the next solid 2-way starter in a year and maybe a 2nd option in 2 more years. There is a ceiling to THT, he is not a franchise player.
If you can get a starting level player now, you have to do that. The Lakers window with the big 3 is now and next year. If they don't get a realiable 4th starter (right now they have zero reliable starters outside of the big 3) they may finish no higher than the 5th or 6th seed. There is still time to make a run and finish within the top 3. You have to give yourself a shot.
This team needs defensive players that can play extended minutes and knock down shots. Unless THT becomes one soon, I don't know how keeping him makes sense. Heck, in 2 years, he may warrant a big contract. Will the Lakers even want to pay a non-star that kind of money? The best move IMO is to get the talent in now that can help in the playoffs. |
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RashardA Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 1377 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Trade him. _________________ Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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joeblow Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008 Posts: 3075
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, I read the thread title as "TALEN HORTON-TUCKER still a baby, Lakers!". |
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bluehill Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 890
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Homegrown is worth it if you're getting a Kobe, West, Magic.
Not if you're getting the next solid 2-way starter in a year and maybe a 2nd option in 2 more years. There is a ceiling to THT, he is not a franchise player.
If you can get a starting level player now, you have to do that. The Lakers window with the big 3 is now and next year. If they don't get a realiable 4th starter (right now they have zero reliable starters outside of the big 3) they may finish no higher than the 5th or 6th seed. There is still time to make a run and finish within the top 3. You have to give yourself a shot.
This team needs defensive players that can play extended minutes and knock down shots. Unless THT becomes one soon, I don't know how keeping him makes sense. Heck, in 2 years, he may warrant a big contract. Will the Lakers even want to pay a non-star that kind of money? The best move IMO is to get the talent in now that can help in the playoffs. |
I've gone back and forth on whether to trade THT. I guess it depends on what you consider to be a "starting level player." Is that someone like a Nunn or Monk?
I guess I'm dreading a Zubac for Muscala trade, which seemed desperate, pointless and expensive at the time. |
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windycitycane Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Oct 2012 Posts: 12933
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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joeblow wrote: | Haha, I read the thread title as "TALEN HORTON-TUCKER still a baby, Lakers!". |
Exactly. At the time it was a positive. Now its a liability.
I had hopes. Tht is what we thought he was. A second rounder career bench guy. _________________ "I bought the Lakers so I could beat the Celtics" - Dr. Jerry Buss |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Is that someone like a Nunn or Monk? |
No. Monk makes the vet min, Nunn is a MMLE guy.
We need to look for that 10-15M a year guy. Same salary as THT. But further along in his career, kind of is who he is. A 3nD guy. I don't know who that is. We had a pretty solid one in KCP. We also had Danny. We need them.
Look at Ellington today. That is what KCP used to give us. No not every game the shooting was there, but the defense. Ellington's D today was awesome. But we rarely get that. We need that 1 role player who we can rely on as a starter to play big minutes with Westbrook. This allows us to change the defense on the team, and make us more able to fight through screens and be physical. When we do this, then we can start to take advantage of having AD at the 4 and 2 shotblockers.
Tonight we saw that. But the odds are slim Ellington will play D like this again on a consistent basis. We need a guy like that. If it costs THT, I'll pack his bags for him. I like THT. However this is a 2 year window. All out got to try and win now. He's not giving the team anything like KCP/Caruso. Elite man D? No. Some nice plays on D, but not elite coverages. Motor? No, average. Finishing at the rim? Average. Passing? Average to below average as a PG. PG? Nope. He's just in that talent phase. Huge waste to have him in this situation. |
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Laker's Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 12813
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure about the relative trade values, but the likes of Kelly Oubre or Robert Covington could make sense for what the Lakers need in a sort of price range. Maybe Jeremy Lamb interests Pelinka. |
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Laker4lifer4real Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2017 Posts: 3472
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Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | Is that someone like a Nunn or Monk? |
No. Monk makes the vet min, Nunn is a MMLE guy.
We need to look for that 10-15M a year guy. Same salary as THT. But further along in his career, kind of is who he is. A 3nD guy. I don't know who that is. We had a pretty solid one in KCP. We also had Danny. We need them.
Look at Ellington today. That is what KCP used to give us. No not every game the shooting was there, but the defense. Ellington's D today was awesome. But we rarely get that. We need that 1 role player who we can rely on as a starter to play big minutes with Westbrook. This allows us to change the defense on the team, and make us more able to fight through screens and be physical. When we do this, then we can start to take advantage of having AD at the 4 and 2 shotblockers.
Tonight we saw that. But the odds are slim Ellington will play D like this again on a consistent basis. We need a guy like that. If it costs THT, I'll pack his bags for him. I like THT. However this is a 2 year window. All out got to try and win now. He's not giving the team anything like KCP/Caruso. Elite man D? No. Some nice plays on D, but not elite coverages. Motor? No, average. Finishing at the rim? Average. Passing? Average to below average as a PG. PG? Nope. He's just in that talent phase. Huge waste to have him in this situation. |
Like a Trevor Ariza? This board needs to chill. AD and Lebron need to step up more and give THT some more time to develop. But THT needs to earn his minutes. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Laker4lifer4real wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | Is that someone like a Nunn or Monk? |
No. Monk makes the vet min, Nunn is a MMLE guy.
We need to look for that 10-15M a year guy. Same salary as THT. But further along in his career, kind of is who he is. A 3nD guy. I don't know who that is. We had a pretty solid one in KCP. We also had Danny. We need them.
Look at Ellington today. That is what KCP used to give us. No not every game the shooting was there, but the defense. Ellington's D today was awesome. But we rarely get that. We need that 1 role player who we can rely on as a starter to play big minutes with Westbrook. This allows us to change the defense on the team, and make us more able to fight through screens and be physical. When we do this, then we can start to take advantage of having AD at the 4 and 2 shotblockers.
Tonight we saw that. But the odds are slim Ellington will play D like this again on a consistent basis. We need a guy like that. If it costs THT, I'll pack his bags for him. I like THT. However this is a 2 year window. All out got to try and win now. He's not giving the team anything like KCP/Caruso. Elite man D? No. Some nice plays on D, but not elite coverages. Motor? No, average. Finishing at the rim? Average. Passing? Average to below average as a PG. PG? Nope. He's just in that talent phase. Huge waste to have him in this situation. |
Like a Trevor Ariza? This board needs to chill. AD and Lebron need to step up more and give THT some more time to develop. But THT needs to earn his minutes. |
Ariza was the sort of player we need. The 2009-2015 Trevor Ariza. It's 2022 soon. You need a player who still is in his athletic prime. Monk/Ellington/Reaves brought D yesterday, but I don't know if they can do it each game. We started THT and he was a dud. We need a starting level player next to the big 3. Or big 2 (Since Bron is missing most of the season at this point). The Lakers are playing musical chairs with the role guys. There's not one single role player we can trust that will bring it each night as a starter.
If trading THT gives us that kind of player back (A KCP/Danny Green level player) I pack his bags. There's no championship possibility past 2023. It's this season and next. That's it, and then likely a down period, again. Need to go all out. Rob already made a big mistake letting Carushow go, to keep THT. |
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lurklurk Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 621
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Monk’s blossoming playmaking skills and nunn’s eventual return will make THT expendable unless he greatly improves his defense. He needs to take on the challenge of stopping our opponent’s best perimeter player every game. |
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Laker4lifer4real Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2017 Posts: 3472
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:03 am Post subject: |
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lurklurk wrote: | Monk’s blossoming playmaking skills and nunn’s eventual return will make THT expendable unless he greatly improves his defense. He needs to take on the challenge of stopping our opponent’s best perimeter player every game. |
Not sure that is who he is. |
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ZeroDark30_ Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2019 Posts: 8656
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:36 am Post subject: |
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lurklurk wrote: | Monk’s blossoming playmaking skills and nunn’s eventual return will make THT expendable unless he greatly improves his defense. He needs to take on the challenge of stopping our opponent’s best perimeter player every game. |
Problem is, he has fouling issues. Don’t remember that being a problem last year but that could be because he trailed his assignment so much he wasn’t in the picture. Now, he’s sticking close and in foul trouble often. A good player would abuse him. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: |
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THT is not a playmaker, his reads & passes were really bad. Groom him to be DWade like, attacking scorer |
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Palin Star Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 1807
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | Is that someone like a Nunn or Monk? |
No. Monk makes the vet min, Nunn is a MMLE guy.
We need to look for that 10-15M a year guy. Same salary as THT. But further along in his career, kind of is who he is. A 3nD guy. I don't know who that is. We had a pretty solid one in KCP. We also had Danny. We need them.
Look at Ellington today. That is what KCP used to give us. No not every game the shooting was there, but the defense. Ellington's D today was awesome. But we rarely get that. We need that 1 role player who we can rely on as a starter to play big minutes with Westbrook. This allows us to change the defense on the team, and make us more able to fight through screens and be physical. When we do this, then we can start to take advantage of having AD at the 4 and 2 shotblockers.
Tonight we saw that. But the odds are slim Ellington will play D like this again on a consistent basis. We need a guy like that. If it costs THT, I'll pack his bags for him. I like THT. However this is a 2 year window. All out got to try and win now. He's not giving the team anything like KCP/Caruso. Elite man D? No. Some nice plays on D, but not elite coverages. Motor? No, average. Finishing at the rim? Average. Passing? Average to below average as a PG. PG? Nope. He's just in that talent phase. Huge waste to have him in this situation. |
what about TJ Warren? his salary fits with THT |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | THT is not a playmaker, his reads & passes were really bad. Groom him to be DWade like, attacking scorer |
That was my opinion of him too. He has the strength and is willing to sacrifice his body for the points..
Manu/Dwade etc
*bleep on a side note.. was watching some Carushow the other day and He just keeps getting better and He consistently looks for something to be doing or shouting out etc.. |
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RashardA Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 1377 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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He's so overrated by this fan base it's insane.
Trade. Him. _________________ Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16656
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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So……”the next” isn’t “the next”? |
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