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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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 Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | He's so overrated by this fan base it's insane.
Trade. Him. |
I do think he is overrated. I'm happy that he is overrated though because if we did trade him, franchises may look at him better than he actually is. I wouldn't trade him, unless we get someone good and young. He can't be traded until January though. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Any young sefalosha's out there? |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Any young sefalosha's out there? |
I would love to have Matisse Thybulle from Philly. |
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hydrohead
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Location: Space City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Any young sefalosha's out there? |
How about a young Trevor Ariza: Josh Jackson anyone?
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | Any young sefalosha's out there? |
How about a young Trevor Ariza: Josh Jackson anyone? |
Josh Jackson is not a young Trevor Ariza, he's just young. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. Considering his role/importance on the team, they can afford to keep developing him. We're not in desperate need of a 4th all-star talent on this team of stars. The smart thing to do would be to keep developing him and improving his game so that when our stars start to REALLY fall off which will be within the next two seasons he'll be making that leap. THAT is what you are preparing him for.
He doesn't have to be that this year and was never going to be. Stop jumping the gun on 20 year old players and then bashing them when they aren't an all-star yet then maybe you won't find yourself in these situations screaming "TRADE THEM" looking like ya'll learned NOTHING from Russell, Lonzo, Ingram and Randle.
Ya'll kept up your faith in Kuzma till he was 26. THT isn't even as old as Kuzma was when he entered the league. Be patient and focus on more important things.
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hype
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4372
Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. Considering his role/importance on the team, they can afford to keep developing him. We're not in desperate need of a 4th all-star talent on this team of stars. The smart thing to do would be to keep developing him and improving his game so that when our stars start to REALLY fall off which will be within the next two seasons he'll be making that leap. THAT is what you are preparing him for.
He doesn't have to be that this year and was never going to be. Stop jumping the gun on 20 year old players and then bashing them when they aren't an all-star yet then maybe you won't find yourself in these situations screaming "TRADE THEM" looking like ya'll learned NOTHING from Russell, Lonzo, Ingram and Randle.
Ya'll kept up your faith in Kuzma till he was 26. THT isn't even as old as Kuzma was when he entered the league. Be patient and focus on more important things. |
FACTS, well said. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Location: Boulder ;)
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:30 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. |
My expectation for him was what Vogel said pre-season. THT needs to be our best defender and go out and play with a mindset that he will be compliment to the big 3.
While there have been some flashes of D, for the most part, THT looks like the same player as past. I agree it would take to maybe age 23-24 for THT to become that good. Problem? He's no longer being paid like a rookie. He's being paid slightly more than the MLE. This isn't like the Kuzma situation. Kuz was paid vet min like money for 4 years. I had patience.
THT's contract cost the Lakers Caruso, as the Lakers had bird rights for both, but only chose to fully go after one of them. If THT is all about the future, that is fine. However we lost a very good role player, and THT was paid the same (annual) salary that Caruso makes in Chicago. I'm not expecting a star, but I was hoping his 3 point shot and his defense would have gotten better to the point where he can start.
He's best probably being an off the bench player who can create a little for you.
But right now, players like Monk and Ellington are vet min players and bringing more value to the team than THT, who is making 10M a year. We paid him MLE money, and the vet min guys are outplaying him. That's not an expecation of being a star, I just want him to be worth the MLE level contract he was given.
I hope as the season progresses he gets better at a role off the bench. I don't see him being a starter next to Westbrook, at the 2. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:03 am Post subject: |
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He's played 10 games 
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | He's played 10 games |
LG is always feast or famine.
That said, I was hoping for better defense, he's giving up straight line drives way too often, but yes, it's still way too early. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. Considering his role/importance on the team, they can afford to keep developing him. We're not in desperate need of a 4th all-star talent on this team of stars. The smart thing to do would be to keep developing him and improving his game so that when our stars start to REALLY fall off which will be within the next two seasons he'll be making that leap. THAT is what you are preparing him for.
He doesn't have to be that this year and was never going to be. Stop jumping the gun on 20 year old players and then bashing them when they aren't an all-star yet then maybe you won't find yourself in these situations screaming "TRADE THEM" looking like ya'll learned NOTHING from Russell, Lonzo, Ingram and Randle.
Ya'll kept up your faith in Kuzma till he was 26. THT isn't even as old as Kuzma was when he entered the league. Be patient and focus on more important things. |
Its crystal ball. Is his ceiling worth waiting on or do you sell high. Assuming he’s coveted |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | He's played 10 games |
At least me, I'm not giving up on him being a good player. I already think he would be a good player in a re-build situation. But he needs that to become good. For us, we need a role player. It's painfully obvious we have enough isolation/shot creating guys. We don't need more. We need guys that will defend very well, shoot from outside, cut and finish inside. Stuff like that. THT can cut (but doesn't do it often) but he's neither a relialble shooter or a KCP/Caruso level defender.
So all I'm saying is that since he's making MLE money, we're not getting what we need from that money. And we're in a win now situation, where we badly need a 4th starting level player. Our current starters around the big 3 would not start on any contender. Especially our 2 guards. So if THT can fetch you a starting level 2 or 3, we need to consider it. Is this guy going to be James Harden level good? Is he going to be a star in 2 years? Maybe, but there won't be a title shot available then. I see this like with Randle. Randle showed me a lot of promise, but he was not going to do it in time for the Bron era (nor would he fit in with Bron). Unlike Randle, we should try and get something before we just end up losing him in FA or when his value lowers. Right now there's hype around THT. A season where he doesn't fit in, and if he shoots poorly from 3. Forget about it. You may not even get a 1st round pick for him in a year after a bad season off the bench. Right now you'd be selling high and get a better shot at a championship run.
Anyway, I don't think it will happen, as I think the Lakers are very high on him and probably think he can be a future asset, post-Bron. I'm not against that, I just don't see how he fits in next to the big 3 in the coming seasons unless he dramatically changes his game. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. Considering his role/importance on the team, they can afford to keep developing him. We're not in desperate need of a 4th all-star talent on this team of stars. The smart thing to do would be to keep developing him and improving his game so that when our stars start to REALLY fall off which will be within the next two seasons he'll be making that leap. THAT is what you are preparing him for.
He doesn't have to be that this year and was never going to be. Stop jumping the gun on 20 year old players and then bashing them when they aren't an all-star yet then maybe you won't find yourself in these situations screaming "TRADE THEM" looking like ya'll learned NOTHING from Russell, Lonzo, Ingram and Randle.
Ya'll kept up your faith in Kuzma till he was 26. THT isn't even as old as Kuzma was when he entered the league. Be patient and focus on more important things. |
Kuz has longer leash because he has that prototypical NBA body. a 6'8" athletic wing with long arms goes a long way in today's NBA. unfortunately THT does not have that luxury. so for him to stand out, he has to perform now. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | MJST wrote: | I don't know why people expected him to be some kind of all-star this year. He's still about a year or two away. Considering his role/importance on the team, they can afford to keep developing him. We're not in desperate need of a 4th all-star talent on this team of stars. The smart thing to do would be to keep developing him and improving his game so that when our stars start to REALLY fall off which will be within the next two seasons he'll be making that leap. THAT is what you are preparing him for.
He doesn't have to be that this year and was never going to be. Stop jumping the gun on 20 year old players and then bashing them when they aren't an all-star yet then maybe you won't find yourself in these situations screaming "TRADE THEM" looking like ya'll learned NOTHING from Russell, Lonzo, Ingram and Randle.
Ya'll kept up your faith in Kuzma till he was 26. THT isn't even as old as Kuzma was when he entered the league. Be patient and focus on more important things. |
Its crystal ball. Is his ceiling worth waiting on or do you sell high. Assuming he’s coveted |
His ceiling whatever it is is going to be worth it when he's 22 and LeBron is 38. You don't "sell high" on someone you're trying to groom to be a future piece going forward. Again, THT is not even the age Kuzma entered the league at and everyone was "Oh just wait he'll be an all-star" for about 5 seasons it felt like.
The problem with THT is that they expect him to be an all-star at this point and it's not feasible nor possible, NOR is it what this team of THREE stars needs from him. We won't need "more offensively" from THT till LeBron is about 37 or 38 years old. What THT gives us right now is his defensive upside, and his slashing/finishing ability. He has a very high work ethic and has been working on his three point shot so it's likely coming around. It's gonna take longer than a single off-season for that to happen.
Even then he shows flashes offensively of what he could be, and if he continues working as hard as he has been, I don't see any reason he couldn't reach that. The fans however set themselves up for disappointment when he isn't some hybrid of Kawhi and Kobe by 21 and scream to trade him, and once again haven't learned their lesson on every other young talent they gave up on at 20 while they focused on the 24 year old finished product that showed flashes.
It's one of the reasons however I want THT with the bench unit. The offense the bench is going to be running is one that goes with his current style of play and benefits him, it allows him to handle the ball and facilitate but also allows him to attack off ball. In the starting lineup his role as a facilitator isn't really needed and Monk is the better fit with Westbrook, Bron and AD.
But the bench with Nunn, Melo, Ellington and Dwight(or Deandre) is a better fit with THT's skillset and can allow him to get into a rhythm faster.
So if I'm Vogel I'm running this starting lineup
Russell Westbrook
Malik Monk
LeBron James
Anthony Davis
Dwight Howard
and this bench
Kendrick Nunn(whenever he comes back). Till he does, Reaves or Rondo fit here just fine.
Talen-Horton Tucker
Wayne Ellington
Carmelo Anthony
Deandre Jordan (though I wish they'd give Jay Huff a look)
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george w kush
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | He's so overrated by this fan base it's insane.
Trade. Him. |
Kind of reminds me of the Julius Randle arc. There are skills that show he might be able to become a better shooter and likely a much better defender. Fans are hoping that's true because it opens up the impact a TON. There's a lot to be optimistic about.
But our timing may not be right to wait for it. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Mamba Mentality
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Location: The Left Coast
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | He's so overrated by this fan base it's insane.
Trade. Him. |
Kind of reminds me of the Julius Randle arc. There are skills that show he might be able to become a better shooter and likely a much better defender. Fans are hoping that's true because it opens up the impact a TON. There's a lot to be optimistic about.
But our timing may not be right to wait for it. |
This.
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Laker4lifer4real
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Joined: 15 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about. |
This. we aren't 12-11 because of THT and his jumpshot. Lebron being out, AD being soft, Russ learning the offensive tempo without turning it over, Vogel's failing rotations, Ariza being out, all are way more a factor.
THT's 17,25,28 point game stretch shows what he can do, but that may not be what we need from him on this team. Carmelo is our shooter off the bench. Because of his reach Vogel wants him to be a defensive player, but he seems to be more ready offensively to me. It's like saying Anthony Edwards needs to be a defensive stopper. It's not who he naturally is. |
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george w kush
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about. |
I am not blaming THT for the loses but clearly Monk is the better player so why bother with THT? And with Lebron, we shouldn’t be going into 3x overtimes against bums like the Kings on home court. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about. |
I am not blaming THT for the loses but clearly Monk is the better player so why bother with THT? And with Lebron, we shouldn’t be going into 3x overtimes against bums like the Kings on home court. |
because
!) We have them both
2) They both fill specific things the team can utilize
3) Monk isn't guaranteed to stay after this season
4) You can have one starting and another coming off the bench, if we didn't have both of them Bazemore would be getting minutes.
5) THT ain't the reason we went into 3 OTs with the Kings.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about. |
I am not blaming THT for the loses but clearly Monk is the better player so why bother with THT? And with Lebron, we shouldn’t be going into 3x overtimes against bums like the Kings on home court. |
Agree on THT. Now I know he's only 20 so it's really to soon to judge his game...but as of now...he's not a good shooter...he can get to the rim but can't always finish...an average ball handler and defender. Maybe to soon to give up on and trade but if there's a player available that can produce in an area of need (and under 30)...maybe consider trading him. |
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george w kush
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Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 1169
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Why is he playing? He is no Jordan Poole. We’re losing games. Now is not the time to ‘develop’ him. Just give Monk all of his minutes and call it a day. He could use the extra time to develop a left hand.
We have him locked up another year anyway. |
We're losing games because LeBron hasn't been able to accomplish more than a 3 game stretch all season. Not because THT is still developing his jumpshot. There's more important things to worry about. |
I am not blaming THT for the loses but clearly Monk is the better player so why bother with THT? And with Lebron, we shouldn’t be going into 3x overtimes against bums like the Kings on home court. |
because
!) We have them both
2) They both fill specific things the team can utilize
3) Monk isn't guaranteed to stay after this season
4) You can have one starting and another coming off the bench, if we didn't have both of them Bazemore would be getting minutes.
5) THT ain't the reason we went into 3 OTs with the Kings. |
1-Monk and Ellington are better shooters with more experience. THT is 20 years old.
2-What need does THT fill? Can't shoot, has no left hand and terrible defense despite having a huge wingspan. Not saying he won't improve but we are in win now mode.
3-Monk not being guaranteed after this season and THT being guaranteed for another year is just more reason to play Monk.
4-You dont need to play Bazemore, just Monk and Ellington.
5-Yes he's not the reason, but considering we went into 3 OTs with a healthy big 3 and lost, you play your best guys and not 20 year olds. Even a guy like Reaves is more steady and reliable than THT. |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| a better question be what has he improved since rookie season? which part of his game? i see nothing. |
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