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dcastillo
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Joined: 20 May 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | | This kid could easily be a lottery pick next season if he decided to the skip the last draft. |
This. Thank goodness he came out a year earlier. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we should play him and see where that goes. We keep trying to trade for a point and not trying to give him a chance. Let's play him to see what he brings against elite talent. |
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matigol
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Ball handling skills are really great. His body and athleticism are similar to Deron Williams. Imagine if THT can improve his decision making and a more consistent shot. That would be Deron with defense
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Bear in mind, b/c he was a 2nd rounder, his payday comes a lot quicker than a traditional 1st rounder.
Oh and he's with Klutch...
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pio2u
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| matigol wrote: | | Ball handling skills are really great. His body and athleticism are similar to Deron Williams. Imagine if THT can improve his decision making and a more consistent shot. That would be Deron with defense |
ESPN had him listed in the late 1st round so he was a known talent. A foot injury set his stock and development back.
THT def needs to work on his FG's, FT's & conditioning; under Coach Handy's training we should see a marked improvement by next season. |
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3188
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| matigol wrote: | | Ball handling skills are really great. His body and athleticism are similar to Deron Williams. Imagine if THT can improve his decision making and a more consistent shot. That would be Deron with defense |
I like THT but I think you're severely underrating Deron Williams. They're not in the same tier.
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | I think we should play him and see where that goes. We keep trying to trade for a point and not trying to give him a chance. Let's play him to see what he brings against elite talent. |
Team first. If he's not dominating G-League talent, don't throw him in against NBA talent. Let him work on his game, develop his skills and build up his conditioning.
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poppies
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Joined: 08 Nov 2019
Posts: 808
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I think we should play him and see where that goes. We keep trying to trade for a point and not trying to give him a chance. Let's play him to see what he brings against elite talent. |
Team first. If he's not dominating G-League talent, don't throw him in against NBA talent. Let him work on his game, develop his skills and build up his conditioning. |
You triggered an interesting thought for me. Is it indeed the case that NBA guys will consistently dominate in the G-League? Might they flounder in a context that doesn't necessarily favor them? Conversely, might someone realistically do okay in the G-League in a particular context but then go on to do very well in the NBA? |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| poppies wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I think we should play him and see where that goes. We keep trying to trade for a point and not trying to give him a chance. Let's play him to see what he brings against elite talent. |
Team first. If he's not dominating G-League talent, don't throw him in against NBA talent. Let him work on his game, develop his skills and build up his conditioning. |
You triggered an interesting thought for me. Is it indeed the case that NBA guys will consistently dominate in the G-League? Might they flounder in a context that doesn't necessarily favor them? Conversely, might someone realistically do okay in the G-League in a particular context but then go on to do very well in the NBA? |
Sure - people grow and get better. Baseball is a perfect example. 18/19 year old kids put up modest numbers in the minors, but the team can see the mechanics/form/preparation that leads to future success. In that case, it's largely a case of teenagers maturing into their bodies.
In basketball, especially, you can tell when a kid is a "next level" guy. 17-year old Kobe Bryant DESTROYED the Long Beach Summer League. He was only an 8 ppg guy as a rookie, but you knew what was there.
I haven't seen that in THT. Sure, he can become a very good NBA player. His 17/6/5 are good numbers in the G League. His 39.8 FG%/28.1 3-PT% are not screaming "ready for the next level."
By next training camp, he could be ready for the rotation - but he's not ready now.
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Last edited by Dr. Laker on Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Also keep in mind that this isn't baseball. The GLeague isn't even close to the equivalent to AAA ball. Most kids who go into the GLeague either move on to overseas teams or to a life outside of pro sports. |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Also keep in mind that this isn't baseball. The GLeague isn't even close to the equivalent to AAA ball. Most kids who go into the GLeague either move on to overseas teams or to a life outside of pro sports. |
This. He's facing a lot of 6'8" centers and future mortgage loan agents/car salesmen/gym teachers in the G League.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Top G League Scorers Last 10 Years (2010-2019)
2018-2019 Jordan McRae (30.4 PPG)
2017-2018 Antonio Blakeney (32.0 PPG)
2016-2017 Quinn Cook (26.0 PPG)
2015-2016 Sean Kilpatrick (26.4 PPG)
2014-2015 Jabari Brown (24.4 PPG)
2013-2014 Pierre Jackson (29.1 PPG)
2012-2013 Justin Dentmon (22.9 PPG)
2011-2012 Blake Ahearn (23.8 PPG)
2010-2011 TreyJohnson (25.5 PPG)
Aside from Quinn Cook, not a legit NBA player among them, and even Cook is more of a 10th-15th man. Even looking through the last 10 years, the only players of note even in the TOP 10 of scoring (talking 100 players here) are Seth Curry ('14-16; 2nd), Kyle Anderson ('14-15; 8th), Robert Covington ('13-'14; 3rd), Troy Daniels ('13-'14; 8th) and Corey Joseph ('12-'13; 5th).
I also looked through the top 50 in scoring each year (among players who played more than 20 games, a total of 500 players) and the only players who stood out were Duncan Robinson ('18-'19), Kendrick Nunn ('18-'19) and Lonnie Walker IV ('18-'19).
THT isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this season. Instead, its guys like Frank Mason (1st), Gary Payton II (12th), Justin Anderson (14th) and Josh Jackson (16th).
I don't think stats, or random impressive stat lines, are really any kind of indicator. I'm not sure there is actually much to be had from watching G league play. It comes down to giving a player a shot in the NBA and then seeing what he does with it. Some players excel (Caruso) while others fade (Goudelock).
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | Top G League Scorers Last 10 Years (2010-2019)
2018-2019 Jordan McRae (30.4 PPG)
2017-2018 Antonio Blakeney (32.0 PPG)
2016-2017 Quinn Cook (26.0 PPG)
2015-2016 Sean Kilpatrick (26.4 PPG)
2014-2015 Jabari Brown (24.4 PPG)
2013-2014 Pierre Jackson (29.1 PPG)
2012-2013 Justin Dentmon (22.9 PPG)
2011-2012 Blake Ahearn (23.8 PPG)
2010-2011 TreyJohnson (25.5 PPG)
Aside from Quinn Cook, not a legit NBA player among them, and even Cook is more of a 10th-15th man. Even looking through the last 10 years, the only players of note even in the TOP 10 of scoring (talking 100 players here) are Seth Curry ('14-16; 2nd), Kyle Anderson ('14-15; 8th), Robert Covington ('13-'14; 3rd), Troy Daniels ('13-'14; 8th) and Corey Joseph ('12-'13; 5th).
I also looked through the top 50 in scoring each year (among players who played more than 20 games, a total of 500 players) and the only players who stood out were Duncan Robinson ('18-'19), Kendrick Nunn ('18-'19) and Lonnie Walker IV ('18-'19).
THT isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this season. Instead, its guys like Frank Mason (1st), Gary Payton II (12th), Justin Anderson (14th) and Josh Jackson (16th).
I don't think stats, or random impressive stat lines, are really any kind of indicator. I'm not sure there is actually much to be had from watching G league play. It comes down to giving a player a shot in the NBA and then seeing what he does with it. Some players excel (Caruso) while others fade (Goudelock). |
Great research!
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: |
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If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Top G League Scorers Last 10 Years (2010-2019)
2018-2019 Jordan McRae (30.4 PPG)
2017-2018 Antonio Blakeney (32.0 PPG)
2016-2017 Quinn Cook (26.0 PPG)
2015-2016 Sean Kilpatrick (26.4 PPG)
2014-2015 Jabari Brown (24.4 PPG)
2013-2014 Pierre Jackson (29.1 PPG)
2012-2013 Justin Dentmon (22.9 PPG)
2011-2012 Blake Ahearn (23.8 PPG)
2010-2011 TreyJohnson (25.5 PPG)
Aside from Quinn Cook, not a legit NBA player among them, and even Cook is more of a 10th-15th man. Even looking through the last 10 years, the only players of note even in the TOP 10 of scoring (talking 100 players here) are Seth Curry ('14-16; 2nd), Kyle Anderson ('14-15; 8th), Robert Covington ('13-'14; 3rd), Troy Daniels ('13-'14; 8th) and Corey Joseph ('12-'13; 5th).
I also looked through the top 50 in scoring each year (among players who played more than 20 games, a total of 500 players) and the only players who stood out were Duncan Robinson ('18-'19), Kendrick Nunn ('18-'19) and Lonnie Walker IV ('18-'19).
THT isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this season. Instead, its guys like Frank Mason (1st), Gary Payton II (12th), Justin Anderson (14th) and Josh Jackson (16th).
I don't think stats, or random impressive stat lines, are really any kind of indicator. I'm not sure there is actually much to be had from watching G league play. It comes down to giving a player a shot in the NBA and then seeing what he does with it. Some players excel (Caruso) while others fade (Goudelock). |
Great research! |
I agree. It's not just about scoring.
For me, it's about how he's getting those buckets.
And besides scoring, I'm interested in his all-around game and if he can develop those, especially defense, playmaking and even rebounding. |
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lukewaltonsdad
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 2983
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:38 am Post subject: |
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He has more than a chance to be successful in this league. He's legit.
I'm not saying star, but he will be a rotation player, IMO.
He probably needs another year of development, though.
The most important person in his life will be Phil Handy for the foreseeable future. |
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Eye test with THT. His handles suggest he will be an NBA rotation player.
Especially on a team where not many guys have average or above average handles.
Last edited by LakerSD on Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LakersPimp
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | Top G League Scorers Last 10 Years (2010-2019)
2018-2019 Jordan McRae (30.4 PPG)
2017-2018 Antonio Blakeney (32.0 PPG)
2016-2017 Quinn Cook (26.0 PPG)
2015-2016 Sean Kilpatrick (26.4 PPG)
2014-2015 Jabari Brown (24.4 PPG)
2013-2014 Pierre Jackson (29.1 PPG)
2012-2013 Justin Dentmon (22.9 PPG)
2011-2012 Blake Ahearn (23.8 PPG)
2010-2011 TreyJohnson (25.5 PPG)
Aside from Quinn Cook, not a legit NBA player among them, and even Cook is more of a 10th-15th man. Even looking through the last 10 years, the only players of note even in the TOP 10 of scoring (talking 100 players here) are Seth Curry ('14-16; 2nd), Kyle Anderson ('14-15; 8th), Robert Covington ('13-'14; 3rd), Troy Daniels ('13-'14; 8th) and Corey Joseph ('12-'13; 5th).
I also looked through the top 50 in scoring each year (among players who played more than 20 games, a total of 500 players) and the only players who stood out were Duncan Robinson ('18-'19), Kendrick Nunn ('18-'19) and Lonnie Walker IV ('18-'19).
THT isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this season. Instead, its guys like Frank Mason (1st), Gary Payton II (12th), Justin Anderson (14th) and Josh Jackson (16th).
I don't think stats, or random impressive stat lines, are really any kind of indicator. I'm not sure there is actually much to be had from watching G league play. It comes down to giving a player a shot in the NBA and then seeing what he does with it. Some players excel (Caruso) while others fade (Goudelock). |
Great research! |
The thing about the Gleague is that the players who put up great numbers...and make it to the league end up sitting behind players who are either making good money...or are drafted high. Its politics...Its rare when the stars align and someone is given the reigns to play like how nunn is doing now. He played well...but injuries and suspensions happened...and voila! Look at Jordan McRae right now for the the Wizards...putting up a lot of numbers...but he is/will be behind Beal...Wall...and others. So then he wouldn't be able to showcase his talent. |
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LakersForever123
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 2261
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Just a comparison:
Alex Caruso 18-19 gleague stats: 14 points a game on 41% fg, 27% 3 point shooting, 5 assist and 3 rebounds
THT stats: 17 points per game on 40% fg and and 28% 3 point shooting, 4.6 assist and 6.5 rebounds. THT has slightly better numbers overall.
-and AC is playing for the Lakers now. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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From what I've seen of the Gleague; the defense has less IQ, and is more laxed.. The offensive talent is good, but the defenders aren't on-beat or in the perfect spots to be super timely, and make a solid defensive play..it just looks like a league devoid of defensive talent.
Sometimes it looks like a high version, coached up rec league, with NBA athletes.... While on a lot of plays, it can mirror closely NBA defenses, to where I'd guess it's like high minor league baseball... cuz the athletes are great and well coached.
The main benefit is playing against NBA athletes.. the intensity is a tad under the Summer League... but I would say good performances in both spots is equivalent in meaning. |
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3188
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I understand the skepticism of G League performances. But just as an environment to evaluate and groom future big leaguers, it seems to be turning a corner in the past few years. Seems like almost half of Toronto's rotation was groomed in the G League. That's not something that would happen back in the Goudelock days. It's evolving.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league. |
everyone's excitement about THT isn't misguided... he's got a future in the league and the Lakers would never cut him, especially with him being Klutch. We traded one of our few assets for him, a 2nd.. now he's that trade asset. and he's looking good. Avery Bradley has never dribbled the ball like THT. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakersForever123 wrote: | Just a comparison:
Alex Caruso 18-19 gleague stats: 14 points a game on 41% fg, 27% 3 point shooting, 5 assist and 3 rebounds
THT stats: 17 points per game on 40% fg and and 28% 3 point shooting, 4.6 assist and 6.5 rebounds. THT has slightly better numbers overall.
-and AC is playing for the Lakers now. |
And Alex was 23-24 years old while THT is 19.
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | poppies wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I think we should play him and see where that goes. We keep trying to trade for a point and not trying to give him a chance. Let's play him to see what he brings against elite talent. |
Team first. If he's not dominating G-League talent, don't throw him in against NBA talent. Let him work on his game, develop his skills and build up his conditioning. |
You triggered an interesting thought for me. Is it indeed the case that NBA guys will consistently dominate in the G-League? Might they flounder in a context that doesn't necessarily favor them? Conversely, might someone realistically do okay in the G-League in a particular context but then go on to do very well in the NBA? |
Sure - people grow and get better. Baseball is a perfect example. 18/19 year old kids put up modest numbers in the minors, but the team can see the mechanics/form/preparation that leads to future success. In that case, it's largely a case of teenagers maturing into their bodies.
In basketball, especially, you can tell when a kid is a "next level" guy. 17-year old Kobe Bryant DESTROYED the Long Beach Summer League. He was only an 8 ppg guy as a rookie, but you knew what was there.
I haven't seen that in THT. Sure, he can become a very good NBA player. His 17/6/5 are good numbers in the G League. His 39.8 FG%/28.1 3-PT% are not screaming "ready for the next level."
By next training camp, he could be ready for the rotation - but he's not ready now. |
Kobe Bryant didn't really play his rookie year and summer league is below G League. When he got the opportunity to really play in the NBA, he showed out. Who is to say Kobe wouldn't have showed out his rookie year? I think we can be biased in terms of who want to develop on the g league and who we want to play as a rookie in the NBA. The placement of the draft, the money they get. Not that many players are ready to take the league by storm, especially if they are 1 and done in college. Also, just because a player dominates the G League, open gym, doesn't mean it's gonna translate in the league (Terrence Williams, Kendall Marshall), I'm not even sure how much developing the g league does, 1 needs the nba experience to really see. I'm not suggesting play him 40 minutes. He can play 2nd unit, 15 minutes, ease him, to get that experience.
Last edited by Outspoken on Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:05 am; edited 4 times in total |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| The Gleague is a good introduction to playing against NBA athletes. the Gleague is littered with players who have great athleticism but their skills aren't refined.. you'll find a lot of 6'9 Centers and 6'8 PFs with length and who can jump out of the gym... same thing with wings. they're still the best athlete's from college. and you gotta get used to that |
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