If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league.
everyone's excitement about THT isn't misguided... he's got a future in the league and the Lakers would never cut him, especially with him being Klutch. We traded one of our few assets for him, a 2nd.. now he's that trade asset. and he's looking good. Avery Bradley has never dribbled the ball like THT.
I'm glad to read this, because the more young players the Lakers have on 2nd round/late 1st rounders the better. If he is not cut, then that means the Lakers believe in him being a top 8 guy. You don't develop anyone on a contender if you don't think he is going to be at least that good.
His main attribute to me seems to be his size and length. He comes across like a power guard, who can use his length defensively. Now I don't know if he plays a lick of D, but with that kind of length, he should be able to contest shots ....
If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league.
everyone's excitement about THT isn't misguided... he's got a future in the league and the Lakers would never cut him, especially with him being Klutch. We traded one of our few assets for him, a 2nd.. now he's that trade asset. and he's looking good. Avery Bradley has never dribbled the ball like THT.
I'm glad to read this, because the more young players the Lakers have on 2nd round/late 1st rounders the better. If he is not cut, then that means the Lakers believe in him being a top 8 guy. You don't develop anyone on a contender if you don't think he is going to be at least that good.
His main attribute to me seems to be his size and length. He comes across like a power guard, who can use his length defensively. Now I don't know if he plays a lick of D, but with that kind of length, he should be able to contest shots ....
he's a power guard after he puts an elite ball handling move on you; people are comparing him to Deron Williams - THT's handle is rarely found for guys who are above 6'2, especially with a 7'1 wingspan. He's one of those guys with special off the dribble chops, it's just innate in him to be a NBA level creator...While a Caruso doesn't have that gift, THT is on the other end of the spectrum. THT also has had games where he looks like a legit PG, making all of the high level passes and on-time reads..
Talent wise off the dribble, you could say he's an unrefined, unathletic Donavan Mitchell --- you see him make all of the moves and beat guys, but just do it slower, and miss the pull-up jumpers.
2018-2019 Jordan McRae (30.4 PPG)
2017-2018 Antonio Blakeney (32.0 PPG)
2016-2017 Quinn Cook (26.0 PPG)
2015-2016 Sean Kilpatrick (26.4 PPG)
2014-2015 Jabari Brown (24.4 PPG)
2013-2014 Pierre Jackson (29.1 PPG)
2012-2013 Justin Dentmon (22.9 PPG)
2011-2012 Blake Ahearn (23.8 PPG)
2010-2011 TreyJohnson (25.5 PPG)
Aside from Quinn Cook, not a legit NBA player among them, and even Cook is more of a 10th-15th man. Even looking through the last 10 years, the only players of note even in the TOP 10 of scoring (talking 100 players here) are Seth Curry ('14-16; 2nd), Kyle Anderson ('14-15; 8th), Robert Covington ('13-'14; 3rd), Troy Daniels ('13-'14; 8th) and Corey Joseph ('12-'13; 5th).
I also looked through the top 50 in scoring each year (among players who played more than 20 games, a total of 500 players) and the only players who stood out were Duncan Robinson ('18-'19), Kendrick Nunn ('18-'19) and Lonnie Walker IV ('18-'19).
THT isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this season. Instead, its guys like Frank Mason (1st), Gary Payton II (12th), Justin Anderson (14th) and Josh Jackson (16th).
I don't think stats, or random impressive stat lines, are really any kind of indicator. I'm not sure there is actually much to be had from watching G league play. It comes down to giving a player a shot in the NBA and then seeing what he does with it. Some players excel (Caruso) while others fade (Goudelock).
Great post. This should put people's expectations in perspective. I keep saying THT is on a different timeline from our team, which is why we shouldn't be forcing minutes on him this season. He's getting a lot of playing time in the G-League and that's exactly what it's there for.
The question is whether 3 minutes of NBA garbage time is really worth an entire game in the GL. For a 19 year old player like THT, I think the repetition is more important. Taking the things he practiced and applying it in games night after night will aid his growth more than 2 min of garbage time every couple weeks and then dealing with disappointed fans when he doesn't showout in those 2 mins.
I peak into the south bay lakers thread once in a while and it seems our team is regularly giving up 130 point games and losing. Everyone's stats are so inflated because it's basically a pickup game with no defense. Fringe NBA players can put up big numbers there. Don't be fooled by the statlines.
this is the game where I was impressed about him playing PG. he played with NBA pace and made a lot of great passes. You can see the pace/throttle on his first cut through the lane and finish.
If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league.
everyone's excitement about THT isn't misguided... he's got a future in the league and the Lakers would never cut him, especially with him being Klutch. We traded one of our few assets for him, a 2nd.. now he's that trade asset. and he's looking good. Avery Bradley has never dribbled the ball like THT.
I'm glad to read this, because the more young players the Lakers have on 2nd round/late 1st rounders the better. If he is not cut, then that means the Lakers believe in him being a top 8 guy. You don't develop anyone on a contender if you don't think he is going to be at least that good.
His main attribute to me seems to be his size and length. He comes across like a power guard, who can use his length defensively. Now I don't know if he plays a lick of D, but with that kind of length, he should be able to contest shots ....
he's a power guard after he puts an elite ball handling move on you; people are comparing him to Deron Williams - THT's handle is rarely found for guys who are above 6'2, especially with a 7'1 wingspan. He's one of those guys with special off the dribble chops, it's just innate in him to be a NBA level creator...While a Caruso doesn't have that gift, THT is on the other end of the spectrum. THT also has had games where he looks like a legit PG, making all of the high level passes and on-time reads..
Talent wise off the dribble, you could say he's an unrefined, unathletic Donavan Mitchell --- you see him make all of the moves and beat guys, but just do it slower, and miss the pull-up jumpers.
Yeah Deron had that quick twitch movement to go with his strength. I don't really see that comparison. I think unathletic Mitchell is a closer comparison.
If I understand correctly, the Lakers may have to move THT or flat out waive him if they sign Darren Collison or Iguodala. So if his upside is not of a top 8 rotation guy, then likely they will move or waive him over a veteran player that has proven he can make a NBA 12 man roster. It will likely be between that, and cutting Cousins, or trading Quinn or Troy. Since the Lakers have had so much time together with this group, my guess they will move/waive THT if they want to get a free agent in unless they are very high on him.
Having watched him, he could become a bigger Avery Bradley on offense. There's nothing that particularly stands out about him as a guard in terms of his skills, outside of his size. That wingspan and size though, it's what makes me think perhaps he has a chance in the league.
everyone's excitement about THT isn't misguided... he's got a future in the league and the Lakers would never cut him, especially with him being Klutch. We traded one of our few assets for him, a 2nd.. now he's that trade asset. and he's looking good. Avery Bradley has never dribbled the ball like THT.
I'm glad to read this, because the more young players the Lakers have on 2nd round/late 1st rounders the better. If he is not cut, then that means the Lakers believe in him being a top 8 guy. You don't develop anyone on a contender if you don't think he is going to be at least that good.
His main attribute to me seems to be his size and length. He comes across like a power guard, who can use his length defensively. Now I don't know if he plays a lick of D, but with that kind of length, he should be able to contest shots ....
he's a power guard after he puts an elite ball handling move on you; people are comparing him to Deron Williams - THT's handle is rarely found for guys who are above 6'2, especially with a 7'1 wingspan. He's one of those guys with special off the dribble chops, it's just innate in him to be a NBA level creator...While a Caruso doesn't have that gift, THT is on the other end of the spectrum. THT also has had games where he looks like a legit PG, making all of the high level passes and on-time reads..
Talent wise off the dribble, you could say he's an unrefined, unathletic Donavan Mitchell --- you see him make all of the moves and beat guys, but just do it slower, and miss the pull-up jumpers.
Yeah Deron had that quick twitch movement to go with his strength. I don't really see that comparison. I think unathletic Mitchell is a closer comparison.
agree. You can't say one or the other is the more skilled ball handler...both have 7' wingspans and use it finishing with scoop/reverse shots at the rim. Both have similar passing chops, as combo guards.. Both love step-backs..
the Deron comparison from people is more just marveling at his ball handling flashes than a full play comp, I'd think.
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though? Simply because clearly he's still carrying more weight than he should be and hopefully will be in his prime. He has so much more room to improve his body that we could be looking at him a lot differently in a year or two.
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though? Simply because clearly he's still carrying more weight than he should be and hopefully will be in his prime. He has so much more room to improve his body that we could be looking at him a lot differently in a year or two.
his first dozen games I saw, I was a bit underwhelmed with his athleticism, after what I expected 'scouting' and projecting him at Iowa State...against college athletes he didn't look a step slow to me, he was fine. Gleague athletes are really great athletes, the bigman just lack IQ or skill or feel, but have eye popping NBA athleticism.... So he looked slow to me...still impressive off the dribble, beating guys with great dribble moves..but looked slow most of the time.
The last 10 games I've noticed a bit of a change- his center of gravity/bend is impressively low...this is why Luka is so great off the dribble, he's 6'8 with a low butt..he doesn't look 6'8 because of it.
THT has started to get impressively low on his drives, and that has also produced more quickness and getting in gaps, it looks like.. He's also looked explosive leaping in this stretch of games, often times..
THT had a lot of stomach fat, but didn't have a man's body elsewhere; he has skinny arms.. So all of his low % of measured body fat at the combine - was at his stomach...that's why his low % surprised people, cuz he has a stomach, people think he's just all around fat --- Draymond measured 2 years ago for a documentary, a similarly low body fat %, and he had an in shape stomach, but his arms are man arms, and his whole body as well, carries more fat in other areas.
So I say all that to say... THT is unique to me. idk if fat directly on your core is more detrimental to movement than having heavy arms and the whole thing... I would kinda guess that's true. THT had near Ingram arms in thinness.. It's like a chubby kid...
I've liked his improvement though..
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though? Simply because clearly he's still carrying more weight than he should be and hopefully will be in his prime. He has so much more room to improve his body that we could be looking at him a lot differently in a year or two.
This. And he clearly has athletic gifts in terms of his body control. A guy like Lonzo can run faster and jump higher than THT, but THT is more fluid and dextrous - his ability to contort in air gives him more hang time which helps compensate for his lack of bounce (the wingspan also helps). _________________ Under New Management
super young 18-19 year old players, also have more room for athletic improvement from NBA training.. than a 20 year old rookie imo. I don't often see pronounced athletic improvement from guys...especially since college programs, even HS programs now strength train..But an 18 year old can certainly improve athletically imo, and he just turned 19 so we good
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though? Simply because clearly he's still carrying more weight than he should be and hopefully will be in his prime. He has so much more room to improve his body that we could be looking at him a lot differently in a year or two.
his first dozen games I saw, I was a bit underwhelmed with his athleticism, after what I expected 'scouting' and projecting him at Iowa State...against college athletes he didn't look a step slow to me, he was fine. Gleague athletes are really great athletes, the bigman just lack IQ or skill or feel, but have eye popping NBA athleticism.... So he looked slow to me...still impressive off the dribble, beating guys with great dribble moves..but looked slow most of the time.
The last 10 games I've noticed a bit of a change- his center of gravity/bend is impressively low...this is why Luka is so great off the dribble, he's 6'8 with a low butt..he doesn't look 6'8 because of it.
THT has started to get impressively low on his drives, and that has also produced more quickness and getting in gaps, it looks like.. He's also looked explosive leaping in this stretch of games, often times..
THT had a lot of stomach fat, but didn't have a man's body elsewhere; he has skinny arms.. So all of his low % of measured body fat at the combine - was at his stomach...that's why his low % surprised people, cuz he has a stomach, people think he's just all around fat --- Draymond measured 2 years ago for a documentary, a similarly low body fat %, and he had an in shape stomach, but his arms are man arms, and his whole body as well, carries more fat in other areas.
So I say all that to say... THT is unique to me. idk if fat directly on your core is more detrimental to movement than having heavy arms and the whole thing... I would kinda guess that's true. THT had near Ingram arms in thinness.. It's like a chubby kid...
I've liked his improvement though..
Maybe he can have a tummy tuck surgery during the offseason?
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though? Simply because clearly he's still carrying more weight than he should be and hopefully will be in his prime. He has so much more room to improve his body that we could be looking at him a lot differently in a year or two.
his first dozen games I saw, I was a bit underwhelmed with his athleticism, after what I expected 'scouting' and projecting him at Iowa State...against college athletes he didn't look a step slow to me, he was fine. Gleague athletes are really great athletes, the bigman just lack IQ or skill or feel, but have eye popping NBA athleticism.... So he looked slow to me...still impressive off the dribble, beating guys with great dribble moves..but looked slow most of the time.
The last 10 games I've noticed a bit of a change- his center of gravity/bend is impressively low...this is why Luka is so great off the dribble, he's 6'8 with a low butt..he doesn't look 6'8 because of it.
THT has started to get impressively low on his drives, and that has also produced more quickness and getting in gaps, it looks like.. He's also looked explosive leaping in this stretch of games, often times..
THT had a lot of stomach fat, but didn't have a man's body elsewhere; he has skinny arms.. So all of his low % of measured body fat at the combine - was at his stomach...that's why his low % surprised people, cuz he has a stomach, people think he's just all around fat --- Draymond measured 2 years ago for a documentary, a similarly low body fat %, and he had an in shape stomach, but his arms are man arms, and his whole body as well, carries more fat in other areas.
So I say all that to say... THT is unique to me. idk if fat directly on your core is more detrimental to movement than having heavy arms and the whole thing... I would kinda guess that's true. THT had near Ingram arms in thinness.. It's like a chubby kid...
I've liked his improvement though..
Maybe he can have a tummy tuck surgery during the offseason?
Ball handling skills are really great. His body and athleticism are similar to Deron Williams. Imagine if THT can improve his decision making and a more consistent shot. That would be Deron with defense
I like THT but I think you're severely underrating Deron Williams. They're not in the same tier.
Not now, definitely! But Deron had two more years at College
Maybe THT will never be a good player in the NBA, but the talent for a good player is there. _________________ White guy to white guy alley oop
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:56 am Post subject:
I'm not completely convinced of that elite ball-handling. I feel like I'm watching the same move on repeat to get separation. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I actually don't think so.. more than anything his floor is higher than I thought it would be. I'd be surprised if he doesn't make plays on both sides of the ball at the next level.. our youngings historically have taken a leap year 3..and I wouldn't doubt that he can do that...
Only concern is that he was a 2nd rounder. Meaning, after next season, he's a RFA, and he's Klutch. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though?
He also just plays the game at his own pace. THT is a crafty player that has shown he can use his unique physical traits (weight, shape and length) to his advantage.
Some of the best players in our league today are below average athletes - Harden and Doncic are two perfect examples. They aren't the quickest, don't have the best bounce, yet are able to use their thicker/bigger bodies to create advantages.
THT has unicorn measurable (the largest delta between height and standing reach ever recorded based on available data), gives him star upside.
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though?
He also just plays the game at his own pace. THT is a crafty player that has shown he can use his unique physical traits (weight, shape and length) to his advantage.
Some of the best players in our league today are below average athletes - Harden and Doncic are two perfect examples. They aren't the quickest, don't have the best bounce, yet are able to use their thicker/bigger bodies to create advantages.
THT has unicorn measurable (the largest delta between height and standing reach ever recorded based on available data), gives him star upside.
Harden and Doncic leverage their stepback to create their great driving..defenders are more paranoid of that shot, and play for that shot, than any shot in the league... And Harden's first step is elite still (he used to be an elite athlete period, but is in his late 20s now and 20bs heavier).
Doncic's size at 6'8 in shoes is a tough cover, he has the stride to beat guys, but still has a really low base and center of gravity - combine those tools with the defenders playing scared of the stepback; and an off the dribble game becomes a lot easier..
Not all chubby, talented ball handlers have all the tools to be stars off the dribble.. THT is going to need a great stepback (he shot a low % in college, 35% C&S), and according to faulty NBA data, is shooting like 20% on those in the Gleague... playing off of that scary shot/move makes getting by a defender a lot easier...
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though?
He also just plays the game at his own pace. THT is a crafty player that has shown he can use his unique physical traits (weight, shape and length) to his advantage.
Some of the best players in our league today are below average athletes - Harden and Doncic are two perfect examples. They aren't the quickest, don't have the best bounce, yet are able to use their thicker/bigger bodies to create advantages.
THT has unicorn measurable (the largest delta between height and standing reach ever recorded based on available data), gives him star upside.
Harden and Doncic leverage their stepback to create their great driving..defenders are more paranoid of that shot, and play for that shot, than any shot in the league... And Harden's first step is elite still (he used to be an elite athlete period, but is in his late 20s now and 20bs heavier).
Doncic's size at 6'8 in shoes is a tough cover, he has the stride to beat guys, but still has a really low base and center of gravity - combine those tools with the defenders playing scared of the stepback; and an off the dribble game becomes a lot easier..
Not all chubby, talented ball handlers have all the tools to be stars off the dribble.. THT is going to need a great stepback (he shot a low % in college, 35% C&S), and according to faulty NBA data, is shooting like 20% on those in the Gleague... playing off of that scary shot/move makes getting by a defender a lot easier...
100% agree he will need a great step-back. He has shown he has a step-back, so the question becomes how efficient he can at hitting it. Doncic came into the NBA with the stepback, I don't think I saw Harden really develop the step-back until after he left OKC.
I've watched Harden since his HS days. He has never been an elite athlete based on the traditional measures of athleticism. Athletically he is probably in the bottom half of the NBA. He is great because of his skill level, shot-making and craftiness. If he had THT level of athleticism, he would still be a star.
Only concern is that he was a 2nd rounder. Meaning, after next season, he's a RFA, and he's Klutch.
Two years means Early Bird rights only. There's a cap on what LA (and other teams via Arenas Rule) can offer him. Definitely more control with a three year deal, but a two year deal has lots of protections too. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
Is the unathletic/slow tag a bit premature, though?
He also just plays the game at his own pace. THT is a crafty player that has shown he can use his unique physical traits (weight, shape and length) to his advantage.
Some of the best players in our league today are below average athletes - Harden and Doncic are two perfect examples. They aren't the quickest, don't have the best bounce, yet are able to use their thicker/bigger bodies to create advantages.
THT has unicorn measurable (the largest delta between height and standing reach ever recorded based on available data), gives him star upside.
Harden and Doncic leverage their stepback to create their great driving..defenders are more paranoid of that shot, and play for that shot, than any shot in the league... And Harden's first step is elite still (he used to be an elite athlete period, but is in his late 20s now and 20bs heavier).
Doncic's size at 6'8 in shoes is a tough cover, he has the stride to beat guys, but still has a really low base and center of gravity - combine those tools with the defenders playing scared of the stepback; and an off the dribble game becomes a lot easier..
Not all chubby, talented ball handlers have all the tools to be stars off the dribble.. THT is going to need a great stepback (he shot a low % in college, 35% C&S), and according to faulty NBA data, is shooting like 20% on those in the Gleague... playing off of that scary shot/move makes getting by a defender a lot easier...
100% agree he will need a great step-back. He has shown he has a step-back, so the question becomes how efficient he can at hitting it. Doncic came into the NBA with the stepback, I don't think I saw Harden really develop the step-back until after he left OKC.
I've watched Harden since his HS days. He has never been an elite athlete based on the traditional measures of athleticism. Athletically he is probably in the bottom half of the NBA. He is great because of his skill level, shot-making and craftiness. If he had THT level of athleticism, he would still be a star.
yea elite athlete wasn't the right term... near elite...or, still very explosive..
Harden used to boom on dudes sometimes..
Alex Caruso 18-19 gleague stats: 14 points a game on 41% fg, 27% 3 point shooting, 5 assist and 3 rebounds
THT stats: 17 points per game on 40% fg and and 28% 3 point shooting, 4.6 assist and 6.5 rebounds. THT has slightly better numbers overall.
-and AC is playing for the Lakers now.
And Alex was 23-24 years old while THT is 19.
Exactly!
I was very high on THT going into last years draft and felt he had lottery pick talent so I was excited that he fell to us.
He's the youngest player in the g-league! Most blue-chip basketball players his age (he just turned 19 in November) are freshmen in college.
He's definitely (by today's standards) on the fast track, and from what I've seen of him so far at Iowa, and the G-League, I think he's quickly on his way to being a better ball handling Bonzi Wells.
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