TALEN HORTON-TUCKER - Lakers 46th Pick
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Mike, I think if Dennis plays like last night or the 2nd half of Bulls game, more often, he is basically Alex with more shotmaking skill. We also saw when Alex shares the backcourt with Dennis and same for THT, Dennis is handling the ball less and we are seeing more dual or trio guard use, which makes the offense so much more effective in some ways.


My idea/decision isn't based on shotmaking skill. It's based on what lineup optimizes the best +/- for the regular season into the playoffs. I find that a lot of people kind of ignore when Dennis gets switched onto a bigger player and gets scored on, because he's not really expected to make the play. Caruso gives more than a fighting chance, and at least flashes better corner 3-point shooting early on.

Quote:
I think it is better to have players that are multiple threats vs singular specialists so long as they make good decisions with their skill. It is easier for a team to close out on a 3 point shooter who does nothing else, than a 3 point shooter who could cut drive pass set screesn etc.


I agree about multiple threats and dual initiators. I just don't agree with the decision making of Dennis, whether it's inaccurate passing, being turnover prone, stopping the dribble early. These are not issues I have with Caruso. Caruso is more of a possession getter and makes them more efficient because he's not as TO prone, while on the flip side, DS plays like an undersized athletic wing that likes to get early offense and get early advantages. The later in the shot clock, the worse the shot creating is for DS.

You can have opponents attack Caruso and THT and still have a shot at getting a stop. I don't think that's as easily the case with Schroder.

It legit blows my mind to see DS have AD and Trez in the 2nd unit, and not break even offensively because of the issues listed above. So then that lineup gets a short stint, AD goes out, LBJ comes in, and it's break even again.

He made better decisions vs. HOU, but that was more of an uptempo game as well.


These are real. My question is: are they the result of bad habits or are they revealing an average to below average BBall IQ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:20 am    Post subject:

Quote:
These are real. My question is: are they the result of bad habits or are they revealing an average to below average BBall IQ?


Bad habits. It shouldn't be a surprise when Dennis' best lineup last year was next to CP3 and SGA, and this year, likely LBJ and another player with guard skills.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:30 am    Post subject:

"The Lakers can give Horton-Tucker a contract starting around $10.5 million while rival teams will be limited by the mid-level exception starting at approximately $9 million. A quirk in the cap, however, can allow for a third-year balloon payment worth as much as the maximum salary with a raise in the fourth. A rival team could pay Horton-Tucker $9 million in the first year, $10 million in the second year then jump to more than $32 million in the third year and $32 million in the fourth. The Lakers could match the deal."

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261145/Knicks-Cavaliers-Mavericks-Interested-In-Signing-Talen-Horton-Tucker


I have never heard of these "balloon payments" for 2nd round players.

Is this true? The Knicks are said to be in pursuit.
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markjay
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject:

DeeAgeaux wrote:
"The Lakers can give Horton-Tucker a contract starting around $10.5 million while rival teams will be limited by the mid-level exception starting at approximately $9 million. A quirk in the cap, however, can allow for a third-year balloon payment worth as much as the maximum salary with a raise in the fourth. A rival team could pay Horton-Tucker $9 million in the first year, $10 million in the second year then jump to more than $32 million in the third year and $32 million in the fourth. The Lakers could match the deal."

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261145/Knicks-Cavaliers-Mavericks-Interested-In-Signing-Talen-Horton-Tucker


I have never heard of these "balloon payments" for 2nd round players.

Is this true? The Knicks are said to be in pursuit.


Yes, it's true unfortunately.

I'm curious about one thing. If a team makes such an offer, how long do the Lakers have to match? In my opinion, the longer the better. During free agency, teams are often reluctant to offer contacts and then have to wait for the home teach to match, because that ties up their money. I wouldn't want another team to offer an absurd contract with the goal of punishing the Lakers financially.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:52 am    Post subject:

Emplay's take on THT's upcoming contract situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84w__JWKKSw
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
DeeAgeaux wrote:
"The Lakers can give Horton-Tucker a contract starting around $10.5 million while rival teams will be limited by the mid-level exception starting at approximately $9 million. A quirk in the cap, however, can allow for a third-year balloon payment worth as much as the maximum salary with a raise in the fourth. A rival team could pay Horton-Tucker $9 million in the first year, $10 million in the second year then jump to more than $32 million in the third year and $32 million in the fourth. The Lakers could match the deal."

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/261145/Knicks-Cavaliers-Mavericks-Interested-In-Signing-Talen-Horton-Tucker


I have never heard of these "balloon payments" for 2nd round players.

Is this true? The Knicks are said to be in pursuit.


Yes, it's true unfortunately.

I'm curious about one thing. If a team makes such an offer, how long do the Lakers have to match? In my opinion, the longer the better. During free agency, teams are often reluctant to offer contacts and then have to wait for the home teach to match, because that ties up their money. I wouldn't want another team to offer an absurd contract with the goal of punishing the Lakers financially.


There is reportedly a lot of interest in THT. Teams could offer him $9 million in the first year, $10 million in the second year, then jump to more than $30 million (max salary) in the third year. The question is whether teams will offer him a huge amount in the third and forth year to make the Lakers blink, since we can offer more in the first two years.

However, they wouldn't do that to "punish" the Lakers since they are on the hook for the money if the Lakers pass. Basically, teams will evaluate what offer will cause the Lakers to pass so they can get him.

I forget the matching period. I think teams have about 3 days to match, but I am not positive.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Klutch will take care of this situation - if THT wants to stay with LA they will make it happen.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Klutch will take care of this situation - if THT wants to stay with LA they will make it happen.


It's not Klutch, it is Rob & ultimately Jeannie. THT is the perfect player age and skill wise to sign using the Arenas provision.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject:

It really is important to keep THT happy. The difference in the amount of $ he could make is not huge, so other factors (PT, culture, location, etc.) could move the envelop.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:49 pm    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
Klutch will take care of this situation - if THT wants to stay with LA they will make it happen.


It's not Klutch, it is Rob & ultimately Jeannie. THT is the perfect player age and skill wise to sign using the Arenas provision.


It's all of the above.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Kind of shocking to realizing THT is going to be a FA already, I just feel like we drafted him this season. They grow up so fast, my babies!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Fortunately an arenas rule FA
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:29 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
These are real. My question is: are they the result of bad habits or are they revealing an average to below average BBall IQ?


Bad habits. It shouldn't be a surprise when Dennis' best lineup last year was next to CP3 and SGA, and this year, likely LBJ and another player with guard skills.


Bad habits. Its great to know because bad habits can be coached and corrected until replaced by good and better habits. But you can't replace a low bbIQ with a higher one if they just don't get it, or they get it, but not enough to apply it.

This is a very talented "prickly little chihuahua" as one poster put it, but a good one.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:51 pm    Post subject:

https://heavy.com/sports/los-angeles-lakers/talen-horton-tucker-free-agency/

Quote:
Horton-Tucker Will Come Under the ‘Gilbert Arenas Rule’ as Multiple Teams’ to Pursue Lakers’ FA

Horton-Tucker can expect “multiple teams” to have an interest in pursuing him this summer. That would put pressure on the Lakers to match some offers that could, potentially, be very hefty. The Knicks, Cavaliers and Mavericks were listed as teams with potential interest.

“The way the rules are, I don’t see the Lakers letting him go,” one general manager told Heavy.com. “But teams can make this a more difficult decision for the Lakers than they’d like. Teams that have a lot of cap space and are looking to gamble on a young guy, why not put your money into him? The upside is obvious.”

The problem for most teams, though, is that under what is known as the “Gilbert Arenas rule,” the Lakers will be in position to give Horton-Tucker a bigger deal, starting around $10.5 million. Opposing teams, though, will be limited by the mid-level exception which, if it comes in at about what it was this year, will be a bit more than $9 million. Advantage, Lakers.

But there is a quirk in the rules that allows for a third-year balloon payment worth as much as the maximum salary, with a raise in the fourth year. So a team could potentially pay Horton-Tucker $9 million in the first year, $10 million in the second year, then jump to more than $30 million in the third year and about $32 million in the fourth year.

That is four years and $80 million for Tucker.

If a team makes that offer for THT, the Lakers would still be in position to match the deal. Problem is, they would be committed to paying Horton-Tucker a max salary in 2023-24 and 2024-25.

Houston did that in the summer of 2012 by signing on second-round picks Jeremy Lin of the Knicks and Omer Asik of the Bulls with balloon-payment deals. Neither New York nor Chicago were willing to match the contracts—and, it should be noted, both deals were gambles that eventually went bad for the Rockets.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:49 am    Post subject:

If it's 4yr/80M, I think the Lakers will pass. Max for 2023-25 is too much for a repeater tax payer.

Other teams will hesitate too. Lin and Asik were not successful precedents.

Then it becomes a number game among the bidders. Let's say 4yr/60M, around 20M for year 3 and 4. Would you match it?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:13 am    Post subject:

I think teams are going to want to see a lot better production from THT before they commit major dollars to him. I'd find it hard to believe that teams like the Knicks would even commit their MLE level money $9.5 million per season to him yet. 4yr/80M , man I'd want to see a string of 20 ppg games before I'd pony up that kind of money.

I think he has a future, but I think he is at least a good productive season away , maybe two from really earning a big contract.

I think too the only way THT gets that kind of money from the Lakers is, he ahs to SHOW them he is a better choice than them re-signing Schroder. To my mind, that is not close to happening based on what we have seen in the regular season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

THT has some real nice court vision - he has dropped several sweet pocket passes in virtually every game. Caruso has done a nice job managing the 2nd unit but THT really shines when he has the rock.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject:

First thing he needs to work on besides the pushing to hard thing is a pull up or step back jumper. Defense is now expecting that drive lower underhand scoop shot.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject:

He had 4 assists in 13 minutes vs. OKC, and 4 assists in 17 minutes vs. Houston. With the ball in hand he can score or assist.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject:

We are gonna need THT to be ready for prime time defensively, if we get the Clips and Nets, he could be critical as a wing defender. I bet Vogel will stay on him hard to groom him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
We are gonna need THT to be ready for prime time defensively, if we get the Clips and Nets, he could be critical as a wing defender. I bet Vogel will stay on him hard to groom him.


Kuzma will be important in this area as well imo.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
We are gonna need THT to be ready for prime time defensively, if we get the Clips and Nets, he could be critical as a wing defender. I bet Vogel will stay on him hard to groom him.


Vogel should give more him minutes base on his effectiveness defensively, he will be more than ready comes playoff. Offensively, he’s getting there but he need more time to figure it out. But time on his side and playing with Lebron is really beneficial is seeing the game and playing like a winning type of player. Need to work on his off hand and add to to his offensive arsenal.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject:

So, our young stud is starting to raise his profile in the league. I visited the CBS sports site, and who do they have on the cover of "free agents that might earn big paydays in the off season" our boy THT.

Quote: "Opposing teams know that. If they want to steal Horton-Tucker, making this sort of offer might be what it takes to scare the Lakers off even if he isn't worth it. Chances at 20-year-olds with his upside are rare. Someone is going to try to take it. "

They're talking about that same poison pill provision that I'm sure Emplay laid out. We ain't gonna lose him this soon in his development....are we?

Link:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakerss-horton-tucker-rockets-oladipo-among-upcoming-free-agents-that-might-earn-big-paydays-in-offseason/
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:32 pm    Post subject:

THT and Luka in Dallas gonna be sick!!!
Nah, but I prefer THT next year or the next 4 over Schroeder or Kuzma.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:27 pm    Post subject:

Wonder what he did to get no run tonight.
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