NCAA Threatens to Ban California Schools
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject:

I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent. We know that schools have lowered admission policies for student athletes. For revenue generating sports, we know they are there for one reason. To play a sport so they can uplift the media profile of the school. Also for massive revenue generating sports like college basketball and football, especially ones from a power 5 program, we know the school is bringing in tons of cash to the program, which they don't have to share with the students-athletes....Fine, then let the student-athletes at this time have a share of the profits from their likeness. Instead of those student-athletes getting 0%, they would at least be getting a small share of the profits.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


I agree, but we're not likely to see something that radical. I'd be okay with it if there was a viable minor league option, as there is in baseball. If you want to turn pro and make some money, go for it. If you want to go to college instead, go for it, but you have to stay in school for three years. No one-and-dones. My sense is that the NBA is slowly heading in this direction, but the NFL is not.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


I agree, but we're not likely to see something that radical. I'd be okay with it if there was a viable minor league option, as there is in baseball. If you want to turn pro and make some money, go for it. If you want to go to college instead, go for it, but you have to stay in school for three years. No one-and-dones. My sense is that the NBA is slowly heading in this direction, but the NFL is not.


Yeah. I’d be more motivated behind a bill that actually helps these students, learn. You know, in school. Lol.

Maybe, you can earn money but only if you maintain an attendance percentage, a certain GPA, and you have to complete your degree like everyone else. Eliminate one and done eligibility for scholarship recipients. Spitballing, but this bill incentivizes less education so even tho I agree its more “fair” it moves in the opposite direction of what I believe.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Thing is, the schools want these revenue streams from college sports. So instead of punishing student-athletes from getting help from external sources, why not share some of that revenue from the athletes that actually bring in the money?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
This is absolute evidence that this bill is not focused on what is best for the student athlete


Only for you, and you had already convinced yourself of this anyway.


Actually you are wrong (which is becoming a trend)....I had never directly linked it to the shoe companies as legislation drivers until I saw the last minute amendment. Why else include the amendment?


That's just a load of BS as you grasp at straws to convince yourself that this is really bad for the athletes. The colleges convinced the legislature to protect their contracts with the shoe companies. Duh. If Mickey Mountaineer wears Nikes and his school has an Adidas contract, Adidas is not going to pay the school as much. Duh. So who wants this change to the bill? The colleges. Duh.


First, check yourself and the way you are communicating with me. The load of bs is the theory you are pushing. The schools are strongly against the legislation, and are not working with the legislature on this bill at this time. They are in the mode of we 100% do not support this legislation. It is widely speculated that amendment was written in Beaverton, Oregon. Can I guarantee you that happened? Was I on the calls? No, but that is not some weird theory I came up with in my home office in Florida, but one that is being discussed in college football media. It does not fit your preferred narrative, so you literally make up a theory that the schools are behind the amendment and start tossing around juvenile "duh's" as your evidence.

Here is the deal AH, I do not have an issue with you taking a different position than I am, and I have joked with you about not usually being wrong on issues like this....but you seem to be taking the approach that I have seen form on this issue that is quite popular with one political party in recent decades. Attack anyone that does not agree with being "stupid". Avoid talking about the facts or the complicated reality....just attack them as "stupid". I expect the next phase to be anyone that does not support us, we will label them as racist.

--In Sam Vecenie's recent podcast, the summary description is "Tim Tebow goes on television and shows his a$$ and ignorance about compensating collegiate athletes". Really? Tim Tebow is not worthy of an opinion? Tim Tebow does not speak on this issue with far more authority than Vencenie who I am sure has never wore a pair of shoulder pads and would duck if someone tossed him any sort of ball.

-- Parrish and Norlander (CBS Sports) do a 2 hour podcast and companion article simply attacking anyone that does not support this legislation as "uneducated". Then they spent two days hiding on Twitter from the dozens of labor attorney's they corrected nearly every point that tried to make showing they are clueless in regards to labor laws at the state and federal levels.

-- Jay Bilas has long insinuated the stupidity of fans that are against paying players.

It is a strategy and it is offensive. I promise you that my "uneducated a$$" has far more paper hanging on my wall than any of these sports journalist. A bigger question is why are "college basketball journalist" pushing this agenda so hard, while college football journalist seem to be more split or resemble the public?

I do not support the legislation. I make my points against it based on the little I know from the "inside" and what I see from the "outside". Unlike your normal approach to these issues, I think you are mostly pushing tired talking points, several of them literally being false. If you have any real points, I am all ears and ready to debate them....but this "winds of change" and cynical sarcasm mostly used in this thread suggests to me that the person simply does not understand the complexity of the issues being debated.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:28 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
New York next....
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/09/18/new-york-senator-the-latest-to-propose-bill-to-abolish-amateurism/

This will probably be the beginning of an avalanche where the NCAA will be forced to change.


Do some research on the Senator behind this legislation. He has been a walking disgrace for decades in NY, and is using this to gain attention. Not one sports media site has spoken about Parker's history and presented him as a respectable legislator.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Burn the NCAA to the ground. And take FIFA and the IOC with them.


At least you are honest.....this is really the driver for many. The NCAA is not, nor have ever been the problem, just an easy drive by target. If you have an issue with the system, then you should be saying burn UCLA to the ground, not the NCAA. Nobody wants to do that....their school is not the problem, it is the evil NCAA that forces my school to do all these things.....no the NCAA is your school.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


I understand the logic, but it is like saying separate employment from medical benefits. I mean they are not really related, and never should have been attached. If not for cost controls implemented by the government in somewhat recent history, they never would have been linked, and nobody would even think about a job providing medical benefits. That said, it is ingrained in our society now, and is likely not going to be separated anytime soon. Similar, colleges and athletics have been combined far longer and are simply accepted at this point.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
First, check yourself and the way you are communicating with me. The load of bs is the theory you are pushing.

. . . .

I expect the next phase to be anyone that does not support us, we will label them as racist.


After a day to think about it, this is what you came up with?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


I understand the logic, but it is like saying separate employment from medical benefits. I mean they are not really related, and never should have been attached. If not for cost controls implemented by the government in somewhat recent history, they never would have been linked, and nobody would even think about a job providing medical benefits. That said, it is ingrained in our society now, and is likely not going to be separated anytime soon. Similar, colleges and athletics have been combined far longer and are simply accepted at this point.


That’s not an analogy that fits with my point. My issue isn’t that they aren't related but that they are competing in opposite directions.

The pairing of competitive sports league and education makes education a secondary priority. This bill, while I am not opposed philosophically, exacerbates that. Will a student study harder in school when they can sign a multi million dollar endorsement deal? I don’t think so, I think they will study less than they already do. And this is beside the concern of how effectively a teenager will manage this money.

I’d be more interested in ideas on how to make education more important, not less important, even if doing so makes things more “fair”.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Why would you need to?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Thing is, the schools want these revenue streams from college sports. So instead of punishing student-athletes from getting help from external sources, why not share some of that revenue from the athletes that actually bring in the money?


How many students get paid for research that brings the university grants and donations? The answer is none, the professors benefit financially. That is no different than athletics.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
How many students get paid for research that brings the university grants and donations? The answer is none, the professors benefit financially. That is no different than athletics.


Actually, research assistants typically get paid.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Thing is, the schools want these revenue streams from college sports. So instead of punishing student-athletes from getting help from external sources, why not share some of that revenue from the athletes that actually bring in the money?


How many students get paid for research that brings the university grants and donations? The answer is none, the professors benefit financially. That is no different than athletics.


This is not true at all. They get paid, just not what they would get in the free market if they were in the corporate world.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
New York next....
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/09/18/new-york-senator-the-latest-to-propose-bill-to-abolish-amateurism/

This will probably be the beginning of an avalanche where the NCAA will be forced to change.


Do some research on the Senator behind this legislation. He has been a walking disgrace for decades in NY, and is using this to gain attention. Not one sports media site has spoken about Parker's history and presented him as a respectable legislator.


That may be your opinion but this person has legislative powers and has the ability to change the current system or get the ball rolling along with California. That is bad news for supporters of the current system....
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Why would you need to?


Need to do what? You don’t want to mesh diametrically opposed goals in an organization.

Meaning it is bad to have goals where meeting one takes from the other.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't buy this argument that the school extended an offer of admission and scholarships to student athlete because of their academic talent.


No one is arguing that. The argument is that the student is the beneficiary of a free education that they didn't really want and that they will abandon in a heartbeat if they can move on to the NFL or the NBA.


Yup. Which is why I have said, get rid of NCAA as an attachment to higher learning and let it be its own league, like a trade school for pro sports. Get it out of education entirely.

You will never be able to mesh those competing goals cohesively.


Thing is, the schools want these revenue streams from college sports. So instead of punishing student-athletes from getting help from external sources, why not share some of that revenue from the athletes that actually bring in the money?


Wait you’re talking about schools paying their students but only if they are also athletes?

That is entirely different from the bill in question and a horrible idea.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

California defies NCAA as Gov. Gavin Newsom signs into law Fair Pay to Play Act

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One of the current core tenets of the NCAA's identity and business model will be illegal in the state of California starting in 2023.

Gov. Gavin Newsom has signed into law the Fair Pay to Play Act, which says colleges in California cannot punish their athletes for collecting endorsement money.


LINK
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject:

Be interesting to see if the NCAA does anything.

On principal, I don’t really have an issue with this ruling.

But I’m not much a fan of this from Lebron and it’s what bothers me about the bill and discussion.

Quote:
Part of the reason I went to the NBA was to get my mom out of the situation she was in. I couldn’t have done that in college with the current rules in place.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-30/college-athlete-endorsement-deals-ncaa-california-law
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
California defies NCAA as Gov. Gavin Newsom signs into law Fair Pay to Play Act

Quote:
One of the current core tenets of the NCAA's identity and business model will be illegal in the state of California starting in 2023.

Gov. Gavin Newsom has signed into law the Fair Pay to Play Act, which says colleges in California cannot punish their athletes for collecting endorsement money.


LINK

Quote:

Politicians in Florida, New York, Washington state, Colorado, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina have publicly supported the idea of creating similar laws in their states.


Looks like the NCAA has a problem on their hands.
I read they are going to argue that is unconstitutional in that California can't regulate interstate commerce.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:08 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
California defies NCAA as Gov. Gavin Newsom signs into law Fair Pay to Play Act

Quote:
One of the current core tenets of the NCAA's identity and business model will be illegal in the state of California starting in 2023.

Gov. Gavin Newsom has signed into law the Fair Pay to Play Act, which says colleges in California cannot punish their athletes for collecting endorsement money.


LINK

Quote:

Politicians in Florida, New York, Washington state, Colorado, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina have publicly supported the idea of creating similar laws in their states.


Looks like the NCAA has a problem on their hands.
I read they are going to argue that is unconstitutional in that California can't regulate interstate commerce.


Well regulating interstate commerce has been so bastardized over the years, why not continue the trend: anything and everything for our plutocratic rulers who pull the strings to maintain their power. If anything is unconstitutional, it would seem that denying some particular subset of students the right to earn money on their likeness would be it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Be interesting to see if the NCAA does anything.

On principal, I don’t really have an issue with this ruling.

But I’m not much a fan of this from Lebron and it’s what bothers me about the bill and discussion.

Quote:
Part of the reason I went to the NBA was to get my mom out of the situation she was in. I couldn’t have done that in college with the current rules in place.


https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-30/college-athlete-endorsement-deals-ncaa-california-law


guy just irritates me....he talks a lot about things he clearly has not put any effort into understanding. I saw him being interviewed yesterday and he said that it was unfair that the NCAA is making money from selling a kids jersey and the kid gets nothing. All while the interviewer just shakes their head in agreement. The problem is it is a false claim.....the NCAA and universities are not allowed to sell anything with the players name or likeness on it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
California defies NCAA as Gov. Gavin Newsom signs into law Fair Pay to Play Act

Quote:
One of the current core tenets of the NCAA's identity and business model will be illegal in the state of California starting in 2023.

Gov. Gavin Newsom has signed into law the Fair Pay to Play Act, which says colleges in California cannot punish their athletes for collecting endorsement money.


LINK

Quote:

Politicians in Florida, New York, Washington state, Colorado, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina have publicly supported the idea of creating similar laws in their states.


Looks like the NCAA has a problem on their hands.
I read they are going to argue that is unconstitutional in that California can't regulate interstate commerce.


nothing to worry about in Florida, North Carolina and South Carolina. There is little support for those bills....just some politicians trying to get attention. Not sure about New York, Colorado, Washington or Maryland.
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