BOOGIE COUSINS joins Lakers (Suffers torn ACL, Page 36; Purportedly threatened ex-gf, pg 53)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
paymonM wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
I'll say something a little controversial. Yeah, boogie shouldn't have said it. And yes it's a threat... But he also didn't actually do anything. They're just words. People say stupid stuff when they're pissed.

And depending on when he said this, he was probably already ticked off about the ACL the day after his birthday.

I'd personally be fine with giving him another shot (no pun intended) next year.


he committed an assault on his ex.

Who did what to whom?

assault
/əˈsɔːlt,əˈsɒlt/
verb
make a physical attack on.

threat
/θrɛt/
noun
a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.


You can't use generic Webster's dictionary definitions to define criminal acts, as you can find those specifically defined by statute. So if you look up Alabama's criminal statutes, you'll find the relevant definitions there.

What the heck kinda funky lawyer are you man? Please do not confuse words and the meaning of words, whether from a spoken perspective or a legal one. A verbal threat made over the telephone is not an assault. If you feel otherwise, give us proof... i.e., a proper link. The only time a verbal threat COULD be considered an assault is IF the person is making the threat to you IN PERSON, and WHILE wielding a weapon.... for example waving a bat/knife in your face or holding a gun to your head.


I'm not weighing in here. I'm saying there are legal definitions for these things. Take the time to look it up and you win your argument.

It's pretty easy. Find the Alabama criminal code and look up the definition of assault. And you can then win internet points!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
paymonM wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
I'll say something a little controversial. Yeah, boogie shouldn't have said it. And yes it's a threat... But he also didn't actually do anything. They're just words. People say stupid stuff when they're pissed.

And depending on when he said this, he was probably already ticked off about the ACL the day after his birthday.

I'd personally be fine with giving him another shot (no pun intended) next year.


he committed an assault on his ex.

Who did what to whom?

assault
/əˈsɔːlt,əˈsɒlt/
verb
make a physical attack on.

threat
/θrɛt/
noun
a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.


You can't use generic Webster's dictionary definitions to define criminal acts, as you can find those specifically defined by statute. So if you look up Alabama's criminal statutes, you'll find the relevant definitions there.

What the heck kinda funky lawyer are you man? Please do not confuse words and the meaning of words, whether from a spoken perspective or a legal one. A verbal threat made over the telephone is not an assault. If you feel otherwise, give us proof... i.e., a proper link. The only time a verbal threat COULD be considered an assault is IF the person is making the threat to you IN PERSON, and WHILE wielding a weapon.... for example waving a bat/knife in your face or holding a gun to your head.


I'm not weighing in here. I'm saying there are legal definitions for these things. Take the time to look it up and you win your argument.

It's pretty easy. Find the Alabama criminal code and look up the definition of assault. And you can then win internet points!

To be honest, it now seems like you are the one trying to win "internet points". The point I made to the person I originally responded to was pretty darn simple... i.e., no need to overstate crimes and that certain words mean specific things... but you had to butt in with your legalese... even though my point applies equally from both, a spoken/written as well as a legal perspective.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject:

When talking about a legal matter, isn't the legal code sort of important? That's just me. But instead of using online dictionaries to define the general meaning of a word, isn't the Alabama criminal code the way to settle the dispute? But hey, that's just me. I'm just trying to help y'all settle the dispute.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

Dang... you really are on a mission to rack up them internet points. Keep it simple, S*. You could have and should have simply said, "you are right, a verbal threat is not an assault... including from a legal definition perspective". That is all that is/was needed.

Last edited by LAL1947 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
Dang... you really are on a mission to rack up them points. Keep it simple S*.
You could have should have simply said, "you are right, a threat is not an assault, even from a legal definition". That is all that is/was needed.


Is that what the Alabama code says? (I guess you aren't a fan of the Socratic method...which I assume the "S*" stands for here...)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
Dang... you really are on a mission to rack up them points. Keep it simple S*.
You could have should have simply said, "you are right, a threat is not an assault, even from a legal definition". That is all that is/was needed.


Is that what the Alabama code says? (I guess you aren't a fan of the Socratic method...which I assume the "S*" stands for here...)

Lol, thought I'd throw a term in there since you apparently like terms so much... K.I.S.S. is an old term (not an insult), that stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Btw, you aren't getting any points here from me, except for lame points.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
Dang... you really are on a mission to rack up them points. Keep it simple S*.
You could have should have simply said, "you are right, a threat is not an assault, even from a legal definition". That is all that is/was needed.


Is that what the Alabama code says? (I guess you aren't a fan of the Socratic method...which I assume the "S*" stands for here...)

Lol, thought I'd throw a term in there since you apparently like terms so much... K.I.S.S. is an old term (not an insult), that stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Btw, you aren't getting any points here from me, except for lame points.


For real. Dude is insufferable and more contrarian than Mary
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
When talking about a legal matter, isn't the legal code sort of important? That's just me. But instead of using online dictionaries to define the general meaning of a word, isn't the Alabama criminal code the way to settle the dispute? But hey, that's just me. I'm just trying to help y'all settle the dispute.


OK. Third-degree assault in Alabama Penal Code is below if you care to read it. The argument is settled about a threat being an assault. It is not.

Regarding using dictionary definitions, penal codes will define terms that have direct legal implications. For example a deadly weapon. But the penal code does not define all words. Most words are understood based on their dictionary definitions. In the case of "assault" and "threat," those require legal definitions that will differ from a dictionary definition.





Assault in the Third Degree

A person commits assault in the third degree, classified as a Class A misdemeanor, in any of the four ways discussed below: by intending to and causing physical injury to another person by recklessly causing physical injury to a person by causing, with criminal negligence, physical injury to another with a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument, or by causing physical injury to another person while intending to prevent a peace officer from performing a lawful duty.
(Ala. Code § 13A-6-22.)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Eric Pincus
@EricPincus

To clear up some confusion - the Lakers CAN cut Cousins after receiving the disabled player exception. They would still have it available for use.


This is probably the best way to go. Get the DPE (1.7m-ish) which is not prorated so it could be a full 1.7m come buyout season in February/March 2020. The regular vet's exception would be prorated so 2.6m would be prorated by however many months/games played so it may be less than the 1.7m-ish DPE.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject:

LAL1947 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
paymonM wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
I'll say something a little controversial. Yeah, boogie shouldn't have said it. And yes it's a threat... But he also didn't actually do anything. They're just words. People say stupid stuff when they're pissed.

And depending on when he said this, he was probably already ticked off about the ACL the day after his birthday.

I'd personally be fine with giving him another shot (no pun intended) next year.


he committed an assault on his ex.

Who did what to whom?

assault
/əˈsɔːlt,əˈsɒlt/
verb
make a physical attack on.

threat
/θrɛt/
noun
a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done.


You can't use generic Webster's dictionary definitions to define criminal acts, as you can find those specifically defined by statute. So if you look up Alabama's criminal statutes, you'll find the relevant definitions there.

What the heck kinda funky lawyer are you man? Please do not confuse words and the meaning of words, whether from a spoken perspective or a legal one. A verbal threat made over the telephone is not an assault. If you feel otherwise, give us proof... i.e., a proper link. The only time a verbal threat COULD be considered an assault is IF the person is making the threat to you IN PERSON, and WHILE wielding a weapon.... for example waving a bat/knife in your face or holding a gun to your head.


I'm not weighing in here. I'm saying there are legal definitions for these things. Take the time to look it up and you win your argument.

It's pretty easy. Find the Alabama criminal code and look up the definition of assault. And you can then win internet points!

To be honest, it now seems like you are the one trying to win "internet points". The point I made to the person I originally responded to was pretty darn simple... i.e., no need to overstate crimes and that certain words mean specific things... but you had to butt in with your legalese... even though my point applies equally from both, a spoken/written as well as a legal perspective.


again,

"The legal term assault refers to an attempt by one person to cause serious bodily harm to another person. This may be through a deliberate act, or through irresponsible actions that show a deliberate lack of respect for the victim’s safety. Assault is also defined as carrying out threat of bodily harm, or having the ability to carry out the threat. Assault is both a crime and a civil wrong, and may result in criminal charges and/or civil liability. To explore this concept, consider the following assault definition."

sometimes somethings are very simple
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LAL1947
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:32 pm    Post subject:

paymonM wrote:

again,

"The legal term assault refers to an attempt by one person to cause serious bodily harm to another person. This may be through a deliberate act, or through irresponsible actions that show a deliberate lack of respect for the victim’s safety. Assault is also defined as carrying out threat of bodily harm, or having the ability to carry out the threat. Assault is both a crime and a civil wrong, and may result in criminal charges and/or civil liability. To explore this concept, consider the following assault definition."

sometimes somethings are very simple



In the part you have bolded... what part of CARRYING OUT the threat (which would then make the threat an assault) do you not get? Also, the next part of the sentence (which you did not bold) says, "or having the ability to carry out the threat"... which means you would have to be physically present and doing something for it to be considered an assault... which means that a telephone convo doesn't count.


Last edited by LAL1947 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:10 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject:

Sheesh. Internet Lawyers.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Eric Pincus
@EricPincus

To clear up some confusion - the Lakers CAN cut Cousins after receiving the disabled player exception. They would still have it available for use.


This is probably the best way to go. Get the DPE (1.7m-ish) which is not prorated so it could be a full 1.7m come buyout season in February/March 2020. The regular vet's exception would be prorated so 2.6m would be prorated by however many months/games played so it may be less than the 1.7m-ish DPE.


February 20th, pro-rated for a 10+ year vet $700k by my calculations.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Sheesh. Internet Lawyers.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:34 pm    Post subject:

I've never been a Boogie fan at all. That said, this whole episode is ugly on both sides. (bleep) move on her part to record the call and not tell him, troll him about not letting their child attend the wedding, then capture the audio of whatever he says in reaction. (bleep) move on his part to overreact and threaten to put a bullet through her head. Would he really do it? I doubt it. But stupid as hell to blurt that out.

This whole legal debate is a big fat waste of time. Let the court system and attorneys handle that. The fallout that's relevant to the Lakers is whether he'll be able to play and whether he's gotten any better at keeping his composure when the going gets tough. I think it's a big fat no on both counts.

I doubt we ever see Cousins play an NBA game in a Laker uniform. Too many injuries, the kind that are too severe, and now we have Dwight Howard backing up Javale McGee. Time will tell.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:06 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Eric Pincus
@EricPincus

To clear up some confusion - the Lakers CAN cut Cousins after receiving the disabled player exception. They would still have it available for use.


This is probably the best way to go. Get the DPE (1.7m-ish) which is not prorated so it could be a full 1.7m come buyout season in February/March 2020. The regular vet's exception would be prorated so 2.6m would be prorated by however many months/games played so it may be less than the 1.7m-ish DPE.


February 20th, pro-rated for a 10+ year vet $700k by my calculations.


Yup. That's a big plus for us if we use it that way since we won't have any other big exception or cap space.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:29 am    Post subject:

LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?

The quad injury wasn't truly significant (no surgery needed) and a lot of pros come back from ACL injuries successfully in time. So we're only talking about the achilles injury, which he'll be 2+ years removed from.

But more importantly, he will not have lost any of his skills. He wasn't a high-flying jackrabbit anyway, so why would his skills abandon him?

It may take him another 18-24 months to feel more like himself again, but he can be an effective center in the league. It's up to DMC's ability to fight through his doubts and control his emotions.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:

LuciusAllen wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?

The quad injury wasn't truly significant (no surgery needed) and a lot of pros come back from ACL injuries successfully in time. So we're only talking about the achilles injury, which he'll be 2+ years removed from.

But more importantly, he will not have lost any of his skills. He wasn't a high-flying jackrabbit anyway, so why would his skills abandon him?

It may take him another 18-24 months to feel more like himself again, but he can be an effective center in the league. It's up to DMC's ability to fight through his doubts and control his emotions.


They are all related IMO. There’s a certain kinetic chain of injuries after Achilles injuries to some.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?

The quad injury wasn't truly significant (no surgery needed) and a lot of pros come back from ACL injuries successfully in time. So we're only talking about the achilles injury, which he'll be 2+ years removed from.

But more importantly, he will not have lost any of his skills. He wasn't a high-flying jackrabbit anyway, so why would his skills abandon him?

It may take him another 18-24 months to feel more like himself again, but he can be an effective center in the league. It's up to DMC's ability to fight through his doubts and control his emotions.


They are all related IMO. There’s a certain kinetic chain of injuries after Achilles injuries to some.


You are correct, look at Kobe’s subsequent injuries. The Boogie ship has sailed, time for all Laker fans to swim to the shore while there’s still land in sight. If you hurry you can make it to the Dwight Train.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Sheesh. Internet Lawyers.


Sheesh. Internet Ignorance.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?

The quad injury wasn't truly significant (no surgery needed) and a lot of pros come back from ACL injuries successfully in time. So we're only talking about the achilles injury, which he'll be 2+ years removed from.

But more importantly, he will not have lost any of his skills. He wasn't a high-flying jackrabbit anyway, so why would his skills abandon him?

It may take him another 18-24 months to feel more like himself again, but he can be an effective center in the league. It's up to DMC's ability to fight through his doubts and control his emotions.


They are all related IMO. There’s a certain kinetic chain of injuries after Achilles injuries to some.

I agree, but believe it that chain can be broken with the correct rehab routine, and rigorous injury prevention training. I guess I'm more optimistic than many here (as the parent of a teen daughter working her way back to play club soccer after ankle surgery, I have no choice but to be hopeful).

The question to me is whether Cousins has the mental toughness required to adapt and stick with this new reality. And that speaks to his mental discipline, just as his ability to eliminate his emotional outbursts does.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject:

LuciusAllen wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LuciusAllen wrote:
When we signed him, I expressed hope that the Lakers would somehow help him get the resources he needed to learn to control his emotions. That (along with his injuries) has been his undoing on the court, and now off the court.

Now that the Lakers don't get the chance to help him with the on-court control, I don't know if they are the right organization to help him with his off-court life. The team could take the chance, keep him around, reach out, help him rebuild his life, and maybe benefit at the end of the process. Tough call.


After an Achilles, quad, and ACL injury, how much will he even have to offer next season?

The quad injury wasn't truly significant (no surgery needed) and a lot of pros come back from ACL injuries successfully in time. So we're only talking about the achilles injury, which he'll be 2+ years removed from.

But more importantly, he will not have lost any of his skills. He wasn't a high-flying jackrabbit anyway, so why would his skills abandon him?

It may take him another 18-24 months to feel more like himself again, but he can be an effective center in the league. It's up to DMC's ability to fight through his doubts and control his emotions.


They are all related IMO. There’s a certain kinetic chain of injuries after Achilles injuries to some.

I agree, but believe it that chain can be broken with the correct rehab routine, and rigorous injury prevention training. I guess I'm more optimistic than many here (as the parent of a teen daughter working her way back to play club soccer after ankle surgery, I have no choice but to be hopeful).

The question to me is whether Cousins has the mental toughness required to adapt and stick with this new reality. And that speaks to his mental discipline, just as his ability to eliminate his emotional outbursts does.


IMO that would require taking a good portion of next year off. He's putting his body through so much stress. It needs rest. Maybe sign him to a minimum deal and let him rehab for 1/2 season, hope he can contribute by playoffs.
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