Early Season Thoughts and Retrospectives
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bfc1125roy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Early Season Thoughts and Retrospectives

I'm going to use this thread to type up some analysis regarding how I see the team shaping up based on their play early in the season. Of course I understand there's many more games left to be played, but we can glean some higher level ideas about the coaching strategy, certain lineups, etc from watching carefully.

Regarding the season opener, I haven't had a chance to go back and watch the film (obviously), but here's my initial thoughts. Let me know what you think, would love to have a discussion about some of these items.

The Good

-Anthony Davis was basically unstoppable inside. Clippers had no choice but to foul him most of the time. Want to see him continually being aggressive here. Some of the spacing was a bit off when he was in the post, but otherwise great stuff from him. I was worried we might see him drift off to the perimeter a lot during the game, but that definitely wasn't the case as far as I saw. Against smaller teams like the Clippers, we should keep running the offense through him.

-Three point shooting shouldn't be nearly as big of an achilles heel as it was last season.

-Lots of movement movement in the offense early on, which I liked. We went away from this as the game progressed, but would love to see that more consistently.

-AD and McGee looked great together. I had some concerns about spacing, but our interior defense with the two of them is very solid.

-Howard seems to be able to play his role as a good backup C. Wasn't outstanding, but definitely did his job. Saw him hustling a lot for offensive rebounds which was nice.

-Vogel went with my preferred lineup to close out the game, which I was happy to see. Although KCP was underwhelming here, I actually would like to see us try this more.
Quote:

I'd like to see this lineup close out games.

Bradley

KCP

Green

James

Davis

Very switchy. Good perimeter and inside defense and hopefully good shooting (depending on Bradley and KCP). Plus you have LeBron and AD as two major offensive threats.


The Bad

-LeBron seems to have slowed down. Could be some offseason rust, but to me it looks like we might see a slightly sharper decline this season. I'm not overly concerned because Davis looks to be solid and has the firepower to pick up the slack offensively, but I was disappointed with how LeBron looked. It wasn't even specifically about his effort. When he had size mismatches, he wasn't able to take advantage as effectively. He seemed reluctant to go into the post and instead would pass the ball. He also allowed the much smaller Beverly to smother him defensively. LeBron's handles did not look great tonight, and Beverly would bother him enough on the perimeter and force him to just pass it. I would have rather seen LeBron take Beverly into the post and go to work. I also remember LeBron being able to handle perimeter pressure a lot better, but it seemed like he was missing something.

-Building off the previous point, our perimeter players are very weak offensively. We were bothered by the Clippers all night and at times even had trouble bringing the ball up the court and starting the offense. As I said earlier, even LeBron struggled with this. I'll stand by my offseason analysis that we are still one solid perimeter player away from being a very strong contender. I think that need was especially glaring tonight.

-Poor defensive rotations. We gave up way too many open 3s tonight, partly because we didn't "help the helper." If someone from the weakside comes over to help on the drive or PnR, the other weakside defender needs to "split the difference" between the two perimeter players, which gives someone else time to rotate to the other one. GSW is a team that's excellent at this.

-Generally rotations were not great by Vogel, though I think he improved as the game went on. Getting Kuzma back will help with this.


Overall, lots to look forward to. I think we have a lot of potential as a team to take advantage of most teams' lack of interior play with Davis. On the perimeter though, I think we'll struggle unless Kuzma ends up showing significant improvement or we trade him for another player. I also want to see much better 3 point defense. This was a problem in the preseason too.
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MustardJam
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject:

The entire team vibe was pathetic and that was the most concerning part. They started nice but once faced with any adversity late in the second half it was pathetic. They were getting out hustled, outfought, outplayed, and etc throughout the majority of the 4th. The Clippers looked like they wanted to win while the Lakers rolled over.

You need to have dogs on your team and guys with a crazy motor. Guys like Beverly, Butler, Draymond, and etc. Lakers have none while the Clippers are filled with them. Howard and Javale are known for going half assed, Rondo has quit on his team before, AD also quit on his team last year (I like the addition but he is a more mellow guy), Lebron has quit on his team before, and Bradley was known for not giving a (bleep) last year.

I'm not saying this team doesn't care because they do and that's a ridiculous statement. However, there was a clear difference in effort and energy down the stretch.
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LBJ23
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

They didn't play with effort. The bigs have to rebound and they were not winning any 50/50 plays. Clippers role players played with balls out effort, something guys like McGee, Howard, Bradley, and Cook need to do.
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troy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject:

You forgot the "Ugly", which was Vogel's offensive scheme. Horrible offensive execution last night, and I bet most of it was due to a poor offensive plan on the coaching staff's part.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

I"m not a fan of KCP closing things out... yet.

Also, we only needed one of 2 things to win last night:

1. backup guards actually do what they're paid to do: make 3s
2. zubac getting more minutes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Ingram and Hart:
37 pts
15 rebounds
5-10 3's

Lonzo
2-3 3's
2-2 ft's
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
Ingram and Hart:
37 pts
15 rebounds
5-10 3's

Lonzo
2-3 3's
2-2 ft's


Danny Green:

28 pts
7 rebs
2 stls
7-9 e's
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The God Particle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject:

From my point of view, the most obvious tell from last night's game was that Lebron has slowed down.

If there were ever a game where a rested Lebron was going set the tone for the season, remind the league who he is, and show himself as the best player in the league by grabbing the bull by the horns, this was it.... yet he couldn't do it.


Maybe Stu is right, Mr. Floor is undefeated!
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Artesties
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:12 pm    Post subject:

I'm concerned about Davis and that he might be a stat stuffer that doesn't necessarily lead to winning basketball games. He's the type that does it his damage with ease and I'm curious to see the nasty in him.
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bfc1125roy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject:

Here's why I think LeBron has slowed down. I've been watching LeBron for well over a decade so I feel like I know when he's being purposely passive versus when he's getting stopped. I've also seen enough of the 2000s stars decline to know what that starts looking like too.

-Difficulty bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense against perimeter pressure. Maybe he was just stiff, but his handles, which have normally been a strong suit of his game, weren't enough to help him combat the pressure of the much shorter Patrick Beverley. Normally LeBron is mobile enough to handle overly aggressive perimeter defense, but I didn't see it this game. Instead he would be forced to give it up.

-Not being able to take big men off the dribble. Even when LeBron had a big man on him, he wasn't able to turn that into an advantage. This is problematic, as we'll probably see more teams do this, especially to switch the LeBron/AD PnR. This means we'll have to rely on Davis to exploit the mismatch, which tbh he isn't consistent at doing late in the 4th quarter, as you saw last night (it was the same in NOLA).

-Trouble finishing at the rim. He seemed to have lost some of the athleticism that he's normally used to convert many of the layups he blew at the rim last night.

The most obvious counter to this is to put LeBron in the post and let him go to work, but he's seemed reluctant to do that his whole career. I doubt that changes this season. I wouldn't be surprised to see LeBron average 22/8/8 this season, but if that happens we'll need Davis to put up 30 and Kuzma another 20 to have a strong shot at a ring. It would honestly be much easier if LeBron could be a bigger perimeter threat, but it seems like that LeBron may be relegated to the past. My firm recommendation would be to trade Kuzma in a package for a guard that can initiate the offense and space the floor.
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VujacicForThree
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject:

So LeBron magically slowed down NOW, yet was magically fine for the preseason? Let's face it, the Clippers team is a dog on defense. I'm not going to overreact until I see a good 20 games into the season.

Artesties wrote:
I'm concerned about Davis and that he might be a stat stuffer that doesn't necessarily lead to winning basketball games. He's the type that does it his damage with ease and I'm curious to see the nasty in him.


What? Davis is a monster, who has had monster games. He was getting fouled, and doubled all the time. I would like to see more PNR, and more action that helps AD get the ball closer to the rim, he was working way too hard to set up his post game.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject:

VujacicForThree wrote:
So LeBron magically slowed down NOW, yet was magically fine for the preseason? Let's face it, the Clippers team is a dog on defense. I'm not going to overreact until I see a good 20 games into the season.

Artesties wrote:
I'm concerned about Davis and that he might be a stat stuffer that doesn't necessarily lead to winning basketball games. He's the type that does it his damage with ease and I'm curious to see the nasty in him.


What? Davis is a monster, who has had monster games. He was getting fouled, and doubled all the time. I would like to see more PNR, and more action that helps AD get the ball closer to the rim, he was working way too hard to set up his post game.


EXACTLY!!!

This idea that lebron instantly got old and bad as soon as he became a laker is crazy. I'll tell you what is really happening. Lebron has sucked and always has sucked. He has good stats (I'll let you guys figure out how to get good stats and still suck). People saw the stats and some highlights (few watch full non laker games) and believed he'd be the next great one like kobe or magic. He's not close NEVER HAS BEEN.

Everyone gets exposed on the Lakers. You can hide on other teams and succeed. But not on the Lakers. We've seen too many championships and know INSTANTLY when it is not right.

Lebron is playing the same exact way he has always played. If he has slowed or whatever, it's negligible and thats not the reason why he is playing badly.

He can't be the primary ballhandler. We are not going to win like that. This is the ONLY solution as far as i can tell. Any solution that still has him bringing the ball up will end in no championship. So I am waiting to see if that will happen. If it doesn't, we are never going to win...even if we assemble even more stars on the team. EVEN if Vogel goes and is replaced by PJ. EVEN if KCP is traded for Curry. It will not matter if lebron plays this way.
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NBALakerLegends
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
Ingram and Hart:
37 pts
15 rebounds
5-10 3's

Lonzo
2-3 3's
2-2 ft's


Danny Green:

28 pts
7 rebs
2 stls
7-9 e's


Lonzo 2/7, sat out the 4th and OT
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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject:

NBALakerLegends wrote:
epak wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
Ingram and Hart:
37 pts
15 rebounds
5-10 3's

Lonzo
2-3 3's
2-2 ft's


Danny Green:

28 pts
7 rebs
2 stls
7-9 e's


Lonzo 2/7, sat out the 4th and OT


How well would Hart do against KL? He gives up 2 inches, but is pretty solidly built. Gotta be better than KCP.

Giving up Hart and Wagner for the extra 3M in cap space that wasn't even needed in the end really leaves a bad taste.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers' offense looked stagnant. They also played way too slow and failed to look for fast break opportunities. Only 5 fast break points for us. You're not winning anything in today's NBA like that.

We need to play an uptempo game like we did last season, but other guys like Rondo and Bradley need to be pushing the ball upcourt as much as possible to take that load off Lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Lebron has sucked and always has sucked.


This is POTUS level crazy talk. Everything you say after this should be treated as waste of pixels.

We get it, you hate Lebron, you want everyone to know you hate him and your goal is to make these threads completely unbearable. Congrats.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:34 pm    Post subject:

You can do this after 1 game?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Lebron has sucked and always has sucked.


This is POTUS level crazy talk. Everything you say after this should be treated as waste of pixels.

We get it, you hate Lebron, you want everyone to know you hate him and your goal is to make these threads completely unbearable. Congrats.

Every. Single. Post. It's like his reason for existing is to carry hate in his heart for this man. At this point it just seems disturbingly culltish.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:09 pm    Post subject:

The Clippers and The Rockets play with more juice than us. when talent is pretty similar and one team plays with more juice... I think that team usually wins the series.
We gotta do somethin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Lebron has sucked and always has sucked.


This is POTUS level crazy talk. Everything you say after this should be treated as waste of pixels.

We get it, you hate Lebron, you want everyone to know you hate him and your goal is to make these threads completely unbearable. Congrats.


Call me an alt-right Nazi, but I don't think Trump's tweets are nearly as crazy as Superboy's here.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject:

They didn’t match the Clipper’s effort. If that continues, 45-46 wins and on the road the first round.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
The Clippers and The Rockets play with more juice than us. when talent is pretty similar and one team plays with more juice... I think that team usually wins the series.
We gotta do somethin


It starts at the top. Vogel doesn’t really inspire confidence and LeBron seems content to just make movies and tv shows.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject:

KCP shouldn't be asked to guard Kawhi ever again. Put someone bigger or longer on him. That's when the Clipps made their big comeback in the 2nd quarter. I don't know if Caruso could've done a better job, but you can't keep making the same mistake over and over again.
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lakerfanaticPT
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject:

We need Iggy, that's it.
Kuz comes back and we add Iggy.
We good
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Clipps will take Iggy just to spite us per usual and they already have Harkless as a backup wing.
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