How getting Lebron cost this franchise multiple championships
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And Kawhi said that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers when LBJ was already on the team a year ago.


Nope. Requested the trade here two weeks before LeBron signed.

Just like PG, curved us once we signed LeBron.


Lol. You dodged this point. I didn’t point to the date KL requested a trade. From WOJ on July 1 AFTER LBJ signed with the Lakers.

Quote:
Sources: As trade talks have unfolded, Kawhi Leonard’s focus is unchanged: He wants to be a Laker.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Actually if PG miraculously signed by himself in 2018 he likely misses the playoffs with the young squad and forces his way to the...Clips with KL.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject:

How about Magic?

Someone who promised we drafted a soon to be HOFer in Lonzo Ball who will break all of Magic's records and have his number retired in the rafter?

Someone who decided to build a team around LeBron with non-shooters and mental cases?

Someone who also then publicly quit on the team and decided to air out every single dirty laundry about the Lakers?

Front office stability was supposedly very important to Kawhi's camp which is one of the factors in him going with the Clippers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: How getting Lebron cost this franchise multiple championships

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Snipes wrote:
This isn't a Lebron bash thread. All the power to Lebron, his career and his future with us.

This isn't a Jeanie/Rob/Magic bash thread either. Although they clearly made a bunch of mistakes - a lot of idiots felt that getting Lebron was a great move for this franchise. So I'm not going to completely bash them and I really don't need to because it is evident that our FO is a huge mess. Maybe AD and LBJ will be enough to bring us a ring but it's going to be difficult when it never had to be.

The plan going into last year was very simple. This is exactly what I would have done and SHOULD have been done. Now a lot of you will say "well how do you know x would have come here" or "you can't say we would still get x without x". But the writing is on the wall. This team was possible and we had all the tools to get it done.

So how did we mess this up?

Jeanie/Magic/Rob went after Lebron. Going into the offseason there were murmurs that Lebron was the #1 FA and the #1 guy the Lakers wanted along with another superstar. We thought we were getting Lebron & PG. We only got Lebron. I believe we should have never gone after Lebron. His needs and age just did not match up or align with our team.

Soon as we signed Lebron - PG decides to stay in OKC. I don't care what anyone says, PG stayed with OKC because he did not want to be a part of the Lebron parade. Not many players do. A lot of people were bashing PG but I put no blame on him for choosing OKC. He rather prove to everyone he is the man on OKC (which he was this year) rather than play second fiddle to Lebron. The Kawhi rumours were already under way...

Here's what you do if you're the Lakers.

It's obvious certain guys DON'T want to play with LBJ. One of them was Kawhi - this was made obvious last year when he said he doesn't want to play w Lebron he wants to BEAT Lebron.

You sign PG - ignore Lebron. Let the 34 year attention whore go somewhere else.

You whiff on Kawhi trade because of Pop's demands but understand KL is coming next year to play for the Lakers.

Mid-season you do the AD trade - or wait it out like you did this till this summer.

We trade for AD this summer - KL signs with us and we had PG from the year prior.

AD
PG
KL

3 of the best two way players the game has to offer and all under 30. Game - set - match.

THis combo is MUCH better than LBJ/KL/AD and wins for years to come.

Instead we have AD/LBJ. Big difference. This was an easy slam dunk for us but we screwed it up by going after the biggest name in Lebron James.


Wrong on a lot of facts and assumptions.

First, PG chose OKC a whole day earlier before LeBron signed.

Second, PG as early as a month before free agency was already telling his OKC teammates he wanted to come back, he already started working out with Russ and his OKC teammates that off-season, he planned and produced an ESPN mini-series for ESPN about his decision a month in advance. So who’s to say he would’ve still chosen Lakers without LeBron? PG was the first chip to fall.

Third, you’re going to use PG, the guy who had no courtesy to even meet with us, the guy who made love to Westbrook and cheated behind his back just like he did Doc River’s daughter for a stripper in real life and tried to pay her off with a million dollars to get an abortion, as the template of your LeBron bashing?

Fourth, you don’t know the future. Who says AD even signs with Klutch without LeBron? You don’t know the future, so you can’t say x + y = z, you might be getting w instead.


Third point alone

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject:

I like my second point better
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And Kawhi said that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers when LBJ was already on the team a year ago.


Nope. Requested the trade here two weeks before LeBron signed.

Just like PG, curved us once we signed LeBron.


Not according to this report on July 5th:

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-trade-rumors-clippers-far-less-appealing-to-kawhi-leonard-since-lebron-james-signed-with-lakers/2018/07/05/

Quote:
“I’ve been told that one of the reasons why he looks at going to the Clippers or is a little less motivated is I think initially the idea of L.A. was fine to him. He preferred the Lakers but was open to the Clippers. But now that LeBron is in L.A., I think the idea of going head-to-head with LeBron, to have (Kawhi) with the Clippers, him with the Lakers, and to maybe feel dwarfed by that, I’m told that’s become far less appealing to him.”


No one has any inside knowledge from Kawhi's camp. Did we not learn from this past week?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And Kawhi said that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers when LBJ was already on the team a year ago.


Nope. Requested the trade here two weeks before LeBron signed.

Just like PG, curved us once we signed LeBron.


Lol. You dodged this point. I didn’t point to the date KL requested a trade. From WOJ on July 1 AFTER LBJ signed with the Lakers.

Quote:
Sources: As trade talks have unfolded, Kawhi Leonard’s focus is unchanged: He wants to be a Laker.


Woj does not have a source inside Kawhi's camp. No one does.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:11 am    Post subject:

USC, he’s better than Kobe. Give it a rest.

This all stems from that point.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And Kawhi said that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers when LBJ was already on the team a year ago.


Nope. Requested the trade here two weeks before LeBron signed.

Just like PG, curved us once we signed LeBron.


Lol. You dodged this point. I didn’t point to the date KL requested a trade. From WOJ on July 1 AFTER LBJ signed with the Lakers.

Quote:
Sources: As trade talks have unfolded, Kawhi Leonard’s focus is unchanged: He wants to be a Laker.


Woj does not have a source inside Kawhi's camp. No one does.


Wasn't Woj always saying that Kawhi's focus has always been the Clippers though. Lakers fans here were killing Woj for it saying Clippers were paying him off, when Woj was right and has been saying that for months once free agency got closer and closer.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
And Kawhi said that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers when LBJ was already on the team a year ago.


Nope. Requested the trade here two weeks before LeBron signed.

Just like PG, curved us once we signed LeBron.


Lol. You dodged this point. I didn’t point to the date KL requested a trade. From WOJ on July 1 AFTER LBJ signed with the Lakers.

Quote:
Sources: As trade talks have unfolded, Kawhi Leonard’s focus is unchanged: He wants to be a Laker.


Woj does not have a source inside Kawhi's camp. No one does.


Wasn't Woj always saying that Kawhi's focus has always been the Clippers though. Lakers fans here were killing Woj for it saying Clippers were paying him off, when he was right and has been saying that for months.


Woj's source is Ballmer.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:


Wasn't Woj always saying that Kawhi's focus has always been the Clippers though. Lakers fans here were killing Woj for it saying Clippers were paying him off, when Woj was right and has been saying that for months once free agency got closer and closer.


^Even Josh Hart was saying he was hearing Kawhi to the Clippers back in May. Like many Lakers fans, I ignored that and followed the narrative that #2 would choose wisely. Nope.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

PG did NOT stay in OKC because of Lebron, he stayed because he was too much of a beta to hurt Westbrooks feelings.
And hypothetically speaking, lets say PG goes to Lakers and Lebron goes else where. Then that likely means Lebron goes to NYK and AD follows him there. And Lebron + Klutch is a much bigger magnet for pulling solid role players than what Kawhi and PG can ever dream.

We went with the right decision going with Lebron, we just got a setback by Kawhi screwing us this offseason by wasting our time. We could have built a crazy good team if he let us know from the jump he rather go to the clippers and we pivoted to other players.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
PG did NOT stay in OKC because of Lebron, he stayed because he was too much of a beta to hurt Westbrooks feelings.
And hypothetically speaking, lets say PG goes to Lakers and Lebron goes else where. Then that likely means Lebron goes to NYK and AD follows him there. And Lebron + Klutch is a much bigger magnet for pulling solid role players than what Kawhi and PG can ever dream.

We went with the right decision going with Lebron, we just got a setback by Kawhi screwing us this offseason by wasting our time. We could have built a crazy good team if he let us know from the jump he rather go to the clippers and we pivoted to other players.


This doesn't make sense. He just asked out a year after signing a max deal. It would be more offensive to do what he did than to just leave during free agency last year.

George did a documentary - he tried to force his way to the Lakers - he even said he was upset they didn't trade for him. He was coming until it was 100% that Lebron was coming.

Durant even said nobody really wants to play with Lebron because of the circus. PG and KL are def apart of that crowd especially because they feel they are better than Lebron as the years go on. KL is already far superior to LBJ at this point and so is PG.

We went after the big $ name and it backfired. Many of us here knew it would. That's fine..we still have a good team but you're in denial if you think this is the best we could have done.

You're telling me when AD wanted out he only chose the Lakers because of the Klutch situation? YOu mean to tell me he wouldn't want to come to the Lakers and play with PG and a chance at signing KL this offseason? You mean to tell me we didn't have the best package to offer the Pelicans? Crazy. It's not like we are the Timberwolves and the Klutch connection brought us KD. We are the (bleep) Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject:

^AD with Klutch would mean he'd pair up with LeBron wherever he landed, doubtful he'd pair up with PG13 who isn't known for being able to close playoff games.

With KL/PG on the Clippers, you are officially predicting they will win their first championship this year to start their dynasty?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PG did NOT stay in OKC because of Lebron, he stayed because he was too much of a beta to hurt Westbrooks feelings.
And hypothetically speaking, lets say PG goes to Lakers and Lebron goes else where. Then that likely means Lebron goes to NYK and AD follows him there. And Lebron + Klutch is a much bigger magnet for pulling solid role players than what Kawhi and PG can ever dream.

We went with the right decision going with Lebron, we just got a setback by Kawhi screwing us this offseason by wasting our time. We could have built a crazy good team if he let us know from the jump he rather go to the clippers and we pivoted to other players.


This doesn't make sense. He just asked out a year after signing a max deal. It would be more offensive to do what he did than to just leave during free agency last year.

George did a documentary - he tried to force his way to the Lakers - he even said he was upset they didn't trade for him. He was coming until it was 100% that Lebron was coming.

Durant even said nobody really wants to play with Lebron because of the circus. PG and KL are def apart of that crowd especially because they feel they are better than Lebron as the years go on. KL is already far superior to LBJ at this point and so is PG.

We went after the big $ name and it backfired. Many of us here knew it would. That's fine..we still have a good team but you're in denial if you think this is the best we could have done.

You're telling me when AD wanted out he only chose the Lakers because of the Klutch situation? YOu mean to tell me he wouldn't want to come to the Lakers and play with PG and a chance at signing KL this offseason? You mean to tell me we didn't have the best package to offer the Pelicans? Crazy. It's not like we are the Timberwolves and the Klutch connection brought us KD. We are the (bleep) Lakers.


Klutch is LeBron and leBron is Klutch. There isn't some world where AD is doing his own thing. Their plan was to get both to LA with a young third star to be the second star when Bron ages.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject:

A lot of hypotheticals...here is what we learned from the Kawhi debacle. NBA players have their own agenda which may not fit the fans or front offices visions. They have their own vision of what they want their legacy to be and it might be different from what the fans envision them to be. If Lebron didn't come how do we know the Lakers wouldn't be in a situation like the Knicks?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
A lot of hypotheticals...here is what we learned from the Kawhi debacle. NBA players have their own agenda which may not fit the fans or front offices visions. They have their own vision of what they want their legacy to be and it might be different from what the fans envision them to be. If Lebron didn't come how do we know the Lakers wouldn't be in a situation like the Knicks?


Well said. It wasn't that long ago when free agents avoided the Lakers like the plague. All that cap space was like a barren desert, not unlike the Knicks present day. After Greg ( x3) Monroe, Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo all said no, Lebron said yes.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13870783/los-angeles-lakers-free-agency-fiasco
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PG did NOT stay in OKC because of Lebron, he stayed because he was too much of a beta to hurt Westbrooks feelings.
And hypothetically speaking, lets say PG goes to Lakers and Lebron goes else where. Then that likely means Lebron goes to NYK and AD follows him there. And Lebron + Klutch is a much bigger magnet for pulling solid role players than what Kawhi and PG can ever dream.

We went with the right decision going with Lebron, we just got a setback by Kawhi screwing us this offseason by wasting our time. We could have built a crazy good team if he let us know from the jump he rather go to the clippers and we pivoted to other players.


This doesn't make sense. He just asked out a year after signing a max deal. It would be more offensive to do what he did than to just leave during free agency last year.

George did a documentary - he tried to force his way to the Lakers - he even said he was upset they didn't trade for him. He was coming until it was 100% that Lebron was coming.

Durant even said nobody really wants to play with Lebron because of the circus. PG and KL are def apart of that crowd especially because they feel they are better than Lebron as the years go on. KL is already far superior to LBJ at this point and so is PG.

We went after the big $ name and it backfired. Many of us here knew it would. That's fine..we still have a good team but you're in denial if you think this is the best we could have done.

You're telling me when AD wanted out he only chose the Lakers because of the Klutch situation? YOu mean to tell me he wouldn't want to come to the Lakers and play with PG and a chance at signing KL this offseason? You mean to tell me we didn't have the best package to offer the Pelicans? Crazy. It's not like we are the Timberwolves and the Klutch connection brought us KD. We are the (bleep) Lakers.

reality finally set in with PG after his second season there.... his unfinished business will always be unfinished business in OKC. So when Kawhi presented an "out" he jumped on it.
I have no doubt that PG would have been just as willing to do the same with the Lakers if he hadnt already burned his bridges and Lebron called him up.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am    Post subject:

The only thing I care about is we traded Brandon Ingram instead of Kuzma, but it works out for us and BI. Kuzma may be more comfortable coming off the bench and BI gets a real chance to develop. I like our team though. I don't think it is really aimed towards the future yet, being besides AD, we have no young potential stars. If AD re-signs here, which I believe he will, and LeBron retires, who is gonna be that star we get to be next to AD? It would have really been dope to have Zo, BI, and AD, but that's not realistic being the trade. I digressed though, I really like our team. I feel our team is really deep and balanced. LeBron and AD are big as hell. They are like monstars. If boogie is close to his self, watch out.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject:

Clips have certainly mortgaged their future like the Lakers for an all in move. Look at all the unprotected sex they are having with their future picks to OKC.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

AD is here because of Klutch and LeBron. AD, PG, KL would have never happened. The real choice is LeBron and AD or PG and KL. I like AD the best of all four and for now I take what the Lakers have. KL and PG is potentially better long term but the Lakers can sign another max to join AD in 2-3 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject:

ducasse2 wrote:
AD is here because of Klutch and LeBron. AD, PG, KL would have never happened.


You don't really need AD if you have PG/KL + Zo/Ingram/Hart.

But I'm almost certain that AD would have no problem reupping with PG and KL, should you still choose to do that trade.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

Perhaps, the reason Kawhi did not want to play with LeBron is because LeBron has more rings than him (and would continue to have more for the rest of their careers if Kawhi joined). Easier to join the ringless PG and have the narrative give Kawhi all the credit for any Clipper wins. This argument will be a moot point soon though because the Clippers will never win a ring with the Kawhi/PG B squad, and LeBron/AD will put the Lakers over the Celtics.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject:

Didn’t realize Clippers GM Michael Winger worked for Sam Presti in OKC before he took the job in LA. With PG13 coming off of shoulder surgery, it was probably the best move for Presti to hit the reset button and blow it up.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
This doesn't make sense. He just asked out a year after signing a max deal. It would be more offensive to do what he did than to just leave during free agency last year.

George did a documentary - he tried to force his way to the Lakers - he even said he was upset they didn't trade for him. He was coming until it was 100% that Lebron was coming.


Your argument is contradictory that it doesn't make any sense either.

If PG was upset that the Lakers didn't trade for him, he was still going to come here anyway?

The fact that he was upset we never traded for him, was more likely the reason he proposed to Westbrook.
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