AVERY BRADLEY (2.0)
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Last night's stat line was AB's version of Russ hitting two 3's in a row. It almost does more harm than good. Now he/vogel/fans will think he's "back on track" and we're gonna get another's month worth of misplaced confidence, bad shooting performances, awful midrange shots with 22 seconds left on the clock, and the high-activity POA fake defense w/ bad help defense.

Thing is, Avery did not start the first game of the season, and the defense was really bad. Avery was not brought in for this. He was a late addition, when Vogel probably saw in camp the team was challenged defensively.

Part of the problem is a lot of players don't know (or can't based on defensive limitations) the Lakers style of defensive schemes.

AB knows them. So does Dwight. That's why poor/suspect floor spacing and all the Lakers are going to them.

My hopes by 3rd quarter of this season, we're succesful at starting AD at the 5. Westbrook at the 2, Bron at the 4. Two other starters to be determned as things progress. For our offense, we are probably best served with that combo (AD at 5, Bron at 4, WB at 2), Gives us an open paint, and a lot of spacing. But, the issue is that we can't run these "better" offense lineups until we get 2 defenders who can stay and compliment the big 3. Some think it could be Nunn at the 1, Ariza at the 3. Some thing it will be Monk or Reaves progressing or THT progressing over the season. I don't know about that. I think Rob will need to make a move but either way, we're just not there yet to be playing with poor defenders starting right now.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Last night's stat line was AB's version of Russ hitting two 3's in a row. It almost does more harm than good. Now he/vogel/fans will think he's "back on track" and we're gonna get another's month worth of misplaced confidence, bad shooting performances, awful midrange shots with 22 seconds left on the clock, and the high-activity POA fake defense w/ bad help defense.


Yup. Has the worst +\- rating on the team and the "non" defender Monk leads the team.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Last night's stat line was AB's version of Russ hitting two 3's in a row. It almost does more harm than good. Now he/vogel/fans will think he's "back on track" and we're gonna get another's month worth of misplaced confidence, bad shooting performances, awful midrange shots with 22 seconds left on the clock, and the high-activity POA fake defense w/ bad help defense.


Yup. Has the worst +\- rating on the team and the "non" defender Monk leads the team.

Monk comes off the bench, it is a little different when you have that off the bench match up vs starting, and Monk has slowly started to play better. Now that you can say Monk maybe knows the system, you can consider starting him. Especially if THT fails at it. What I think it comes down to is defense. Despite having a group of non-defenders that did not know the system, the Lakers have become an above average defensive team. This is through a strong defensive coaching style. Starting Avery provides that defensive mindset. Maybe it's wrong. But I see this as the KCP thing. KCP steppd up and proved himself as a 2-way starter. I would love for Monk to make that same jump, but to me he is closer to a Lou Williams kind of player than he is a KCP. We need a KCP type.
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Last night's stat line was AB's version of Russ hitting two 3's in a row. It almost does more harm than good. Now he/vogel/fans will think he's "back on track" and we're gonna get another's month worth of misplaced confidence, bad shooting performances, awful midrange shots with 22 seconds left on the clock, and the high-activity POA fake defense w/ bad help defense.


Yup. Has the worst +\- rating on the team and the "non" defender Monk leads the team.

Monk comes off the bench, it is a little different when you have that off the bench match up vs starting, and Monk has slowly started to play better. Now that you can say Monk maybe knows the system, you can consider starting him. Especially if THT fails at it. What I think it comes down to is defense. Despite having a group of non-defenders that did not know the system, the Lakers have become an above average defensive team. This is through a strong defensive coaching style. Starting Avery provides that defensive mindset. Maybe it's wrong. But I see this as the KCP thing. KCP steppd up and proved himself as a 2-way starter. I would love for Monk to make that same jump, but to me he is closer to a Lou Williams kind of player than he is a KCP. We need a KCP type.


It is usually the other way. Monks +\- should be screwed up like Rondos is because of not playing with our starters. But he has been straight up balling posting an eFG% of 58. Only Melo, Bron and Ellington are close.

Bradley and THT are in the low 40s... when you factor in the lack of spacing and offensive gravity... and the way they are shrinking the floor for our stars to operate..Lack of size and rebounding...

Their defense better be gary payton level to make up for all that (their defense has been terrible)
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:19 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Last night's stat line was AB's version of Russ hitting two 3's in a row. It almost does more harm than good. Now he/vogel/fans will think he's "back on track" and we're gonna get another's month worth of misplaced confidence, bad shooting performances, awful midrange shots with 22 seconds left on the clock, and the high-activity POA fake defense w/ bad help defense.


Yup. Has the worst +\- rating on the team and the "non" defender Monk leads the team.

Monk comes off the bench, it is a little different when you have that off the bench match up vs starting, and Monk has slowly started to play better. Now that you can say Monk maybe knows the system, you can consider starting him. Especially if THT fails at it. What I think it comes down to is defense. Despite having a group of non-defenders that did not know the system, the Lakers have become an above average defensive team. This is through a strong defensive coaching style. Starting Avery provides that defensive mindset. Maybe it's wrong. But I see this as the KCP thing. KCP steppd up and proved himself as a 2-way starter. I would love for Monk to make that same jump, but to me he is closer to a Lou Williams kind of player than he is a KCP. We need a KCP type.


Just read that part...absolutely!

What could substitute for KCP is a KCP type mindset from the guards (Monk, Ellington) we currently have. KCP, Danny Green, etc., had a defensive mindset. The common denominator with our current corp of Monk, Ellington is that they are primarily offensive minded players.

Bradley has that mindset. He provides that perfect balance of defensive mindedness and offense when his shot is on. Rondo made his living off his defense for the first few years of his career. A lot of credit to him for also improving his jumper. Just like Horton-Tucker has to do to really help us improve.
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lakerican
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:18 am    Post subject:

AB have quietly become our best 3pt shooter percent wise.

AB 41.3% in 3.2 3PA
Melo 41.2% in 5.9 3PA
Elliington 40.4% in 5.0 3PA
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levon
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject:

highest NRTG out of all of our 4 man lineups who have played at least 96 minutes:

L. James, .R. Westbrook, .A. Bradley, .A. Davis, +10 NRTG

that's the only one with positive NRTG that features Lebron, and not a coincidence it features all of our big 3.

our worst ones so far feature Monk and Bazemore at the 2
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Imagine a player who plays D and shoots 41.3% from the 3 and doesn’t need the ball in his hand, LG would be making pipe dream trade proposals every day. Instead, people are calling him to be benched, lol
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Imagine a player who plays D and shoots 41.3% from the 3 and doesn’t need the ball in his hand, LG would be making pipe dream trade proposals every day. Instead, people are calling him to be benched, lol


I don’t understand the Avery Bradley hate. He draws the most grueling assignment of having to harass and annoy the opponent’s top guard.

Reaves and AB are the only two capable POA defenders on the roster. It wouldn’t be smart to get rid of AB…not with KCP and Caruso no longer Lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:35 pm    Post subject:

LG is like Pelinka

They think putting 5 scorers out there will win us the championship
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
highest NRTG out of all of our 4 man lineups who have played at least 96 minutes:

L. James, .R. Westbrook, .A. Bradley, .A. Davis, +10 NRTG

that's the only one with positive NRTG that features Lebron, and not a coincidence it features all of our big 3.

our worst ones so far feature Monk and Bazemore at the 2


link plz
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levon
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
levon wrote:
highest NRTG out of all of our 4 man lineups who have played at least 96 minutes:

L. James, .R. Westbrook, .A. Bradley, .A. Davis, +10 NRTG

that's the only one with positive NRTG that features Lebron, and not a coincidence it features all of our big 3.

our worst ones so far feature Monk and Bazemore at the 2


link plz

it's NBA.com's stats, Team Advanced
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F25%2F2021&DateTo=12%2F16%2F2021&TeamID=1610612747

Over the last 3 weeks, Of players that play any sort of significant minutes, Avery Bradley and Austin Reaves have the best defensive ratings on the team at 94 and 95, Just shows how poorly Rob built the supporting cast around Vogel's needs. Vogel is relying on the a rookie undrafted player and a veteran that was cut by the Warriors to be able to be a good defensive team.

Our improvement in play has been 3 fold.

1) Lebron is being more of a PG/Lebron. He's kicked it into another gear.
2) Our defense has improved big time.
3) #2 only happens due to blue collar guys like Bradley and Reaves. Think of them as the KCP/Caruso replacements.

There's going to be a lot of hate thrown Bradley's way. However the advanced stats for the last 3 weeks support his playing time. He's making a 2-way impact. I am not saying he should be our full time starter, but certainly I think players like Bradley, Reaves should be getting playing time. I know Monk has good numbers too, but he does not bring the little things and defensive identity to the team that we badly need to make a step to become a contender again. But I do think we need to pick between Monk and THT. When you add both of them, it's just way too many young guys making errors and lapses. Of the two, Monk has the better offense contribution by a lot, and THT has the better defense (slightly).

We haven't resembled a contender at all until these last 9 games. If now we can get AD to step up his game like Bron has, we could go another level. If Rob makes a smart trade where we can another blue collar guy using THT or Monk, and now you get Ariza back for 15 minutes. You can run lineups where you don't have holes in your lineup.

Options (in order of preference):

4: Bron/Ariza/Melo
3: Ariza/Ellington/THT
2: Bradley/Reaves/Monk
1: Westbrook/Nunn/Rondo

Would still prefer we move one of THT/Monk and add some veteran talent instead that can play a KCP/Danny Green type of role at the 3/2. Bazemore has been horrid. I don't think we should be playing Melo much if Ariza shows he can give the team 15-20 minutes. Do we need Nunn and Rondo? It's possible to make a number of 2 guards for 1, or 3 guards for 1 move for the Lakers. If we can get a SF/SG type with a high defensive motor, this would be ideal.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Imagine a player who plays D and shoots 41.3% from the 3 and doesn’t need the ball in his hand, LG would be making pipe dream trade proposals every day. Instead, people are calling him to be benched, lol


I don’t understand the Avery Bradley hate. He draws the most grueling assignment of having to harass and annoy the opponent’s top guard.

Reaves and AB are the only two capable POA defenders on the roster. It wouldn’t be smart to get rid of AB…not with KCP and Caruso no longer Lakers.


Agreed...Baze wil almost certainly be cut when Nunn returns...but that still doesn't free up the log jam at guard. If we can package THT with others for a Grant / Turner type player that would be ideal. Going forward with a guard rotation of Russ, Bradley, Monk, Reaves, Nunn and Ellington should be enough....along with a front court of Bron, AD, Dwight, Melo, Ariza and either Grant or Turner should be enough to compete for a ring.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject:

Perfect time to get A-Bradley back. His defense will be much needed to help slow down Harden.
    LET'S GO LA!!
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Killer_Z
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject:

He's back??? Amazing!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
January 7th is the latest Avery Bradley needs to be waived or his contract becomes fully guaranteed
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:36 am    Post subject:

Nice to see him back…
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:40 am    Post subject:

Think he gets guaranteed

Probably needs to be used less, but his defensive intensity, cutting and ability to C&S is valuable to our squad
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:10 am    Post subject:

He's one of our better defenders and can knock down the open shot. I doubt we move him for anyone, as it just wouldn't make sense.
Glad he's back and trying to make a difference.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:34 am    Post subject:

He’s like the only guy on the team that can harrass guys like Dame and Ja at the POA.

I’d say he’s necessary for this roster.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:50 am    Post subject:

Having him and Stanley is important to not just this team but to what Vogel wants to do defensively.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Having him and Stanley is important to not just this team but to what Vogel wants to do defensively.

Agreed. They both are only threats from the corner. That's the issue. You can sag off them off the ball unless it's at the corner 3, where it seems they both can make their shots at a decent clip.

It's something you just have to weigh. Defense vs offense. You get a lot of perimeter D with Stanley and Avery, and far less cries for help or switching. This taxes the big 3 less. Until Bron is our starting 5, starting Stanley is an obvious thing, as he requires less help. Will be interesting when AD returns, because right now instead of AD you can run a shooter like Monk instead. When AD returns, the spacing issues may force Vogel to have to choose between Stanley and Avery.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:05 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
MJST wrote:
Having him and Stanley is important to not just this team but to what Vogel wants to do defensively.

Agreed. They both are only threats from the corner. That's the issue. You can sag off them off the ball unless it's at the corner 3, where it seems they both can make their shots at a decent clip.

It's something you just have to weigh. Defense vs offense. You get a lot of perimeter D with Stanley and Avery, and far less cries for help or switching. This taxes the big 3 less. Until Bron is our starting 5, starting Stanley is an obvious thing, as he requires less help. Will be interesting when AD returns, because right now instead of AD you can run a shooter like Monk instead. When AD returns, the spacing issues may force Vogel to have to choose between Stanley and Avery.


Or AD gets back his 2019-20 shooting touch .. one can always hope.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:00 pm    Post subject:

5 more days to guarantee his contract, and I think he's earned it.
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