dodged bullets re: max contracts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject:

UKUGA wrote:
I wasn't not completely comfortable giving a max contract to any of the following from this year's class:


KD
Kyrie
Kemba
Jimmy Butler


I was most comfortable giving Klay a max, but we would have been without him most of the season. I think he will return 100%, but it's still a risk.

Of players who actually changed teams, Kawhi is the one I felt most comfortable with, then Kyrie, but mainly given his history with Lebron.

We did fine.


I think Kyrie would have been nice .

Add DLo to the mix
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
We should have done the matrix on Deng and Mozgov
But glad we missed on Melo and D12.


Yup.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't call it dodging bullets.
More like we tripped, fell, and knocked ourselves out during a massive gunfight.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject:

I have a slightly different take....
U guys might be right but what the Lakers did resulted in 6 straight missed playoffs, including the worst season and worst loss in the entire history (1948) of the Lakers.

The narrative is that those guys would not have made the Lakers a contender but if they made the playoff perhaps the Lakers would have been a desired destination for other players that would have signed. Because the entire 6 years had very little basketball wise to attract a free agent.

So it may seem like we dodged a bullet or several but anyone of those guys could have been an Olidipo, just in the wrong system. And, the last six years sure felt like a firing squad.

But...I think that may be the past now, the future like looks GREAT!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject:

This is why I've been saying year after year to just keep punting if we can't sign a true top player, no matter how much it pisses off the fans to suck year after year. There are maybe 10 guys worth a max contract, but 40 guys have one, and if you're paying one of the other 30, your only hope of contending is getting someone else to take them.

Watch what the supermax does to the league now, too. It's going to start screwing over teams that build through the draft. Sure, it might keep guys in backwater places because they can offer more money, but nobody is worth 40% of your cap. You end up like OKC and Washington. Not good enough to contend and your only hope of even rebuilding is dumping the contract but it's so toxic it'll be hard as hell to do that.

Meanwhile, franchises that attract free agents from elsewhere will thrive because you can't pay free agents from other teams the supermax, so those contracts will always be more cap-friendly, especially when it's guys like LeBron and Kawhi Leonard leaving in free agency. To get these guys at a fraction of what John Wall is earning is such a huge advantage.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Going back . . .

Nick Anderson
Lorenzen Wright
Dikembe Mutombo (wouldn't wait to see if we signed Shaq)
Charles Oakley

a few others


Oak was in 2001, I remember that one. Oak would've helped us imo. He's one of those force multiplier enforcer types. Nets had to have Kendall Gill so bad as to steal him from us for whatever reason.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject:

Julius Randle.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
We should have done the matrix on Deng and Mozgov
But glad we missed on Melo and D12.


Melo for Bynum would have given Kobe more life and another chance
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Going back . . .

Nick Anderson
Lorenzen Wright
Dikembe Mutombo (wouldn't wait to see if we signed Shaq)
Charles Oakley

a few others


Oak was in 2001, I remember that one. Oak would've helped us imo. He's one of those force multiplier enforcer types. Nets had to have Kendall Gill so bad as to steal him from us for whatever reason.


Forgot about Kendall Gill.

Oakley next to Shaq would've been lethal.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject:

nomoreshaq wrote:
dcastillo wrote:
Derozan


forgot about him.

between DeMar, Kawhi, Paul George and Russell Westbrook we sure have a lot of LA Boys who never came to the Lakers. I guess what Kobe said is right.
Gotta be cut from a certain type of cloth
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

nomoreshaq wrote:
which players have we "missed out" on and which players have been totally dodged bullets (players who we supposedly offered max for)

-melo (dodged bullet)
-d12 (dodged bullet)
-lamarcus aldridge (dodged bullet??)
-kawhi (unknown)
-pg13 (missed out, at least in year 1)


I don't agree that we dodged bullet with Melo, because if he came here in 2014, then his max would last until 2018, meaning that we wouldn't sign Deng and Mozgov in 2016 (Deng is still eating our cap space), plus we would still be able to get Lebron last year.

The same thing with Dwight, if he stayed in 2013, his max would last also until 2018, so no Deng and Mozgov, and still we would be able to bring Lebron last year.

Aldridge would be nice signing in 2015, again that would mean no Deng and Mozgov, plus we would probably maintain certan cap flexibility to bring Lebron last year, but i'm not quite sure.

George would be great last year as 2nd max to Lebron, we could still trade all our kids and picks for Davis and that big three looks incredible on paper.

Kawhi would also be great addition this year, even though i think that George might be better fit next to Lebron and Davis because he's a little bit more versatile, but no doubt that Kawhi would be no-brainer if he actually wanted to come.

So basically i don't agree that we dodged bullet with any of these players, any max player before Lebron came means no Deng and Mozgov and any max player after Lebron means that our team is much stronger than before.

Now, i don't agree that Kawhi was the best player to add next to Lebron and Davis, i think that Kyrie would be much better fit, but unfortunately he had other plans, Klay would also be amazing fit, but he also had other plans.

Other max players that we wanted, but we missed on them during the last seven years are CP3 (2012), Lebron (2014), Love (2015), Durant (2016), DeRozan (2017) and somehow we offered max money to Monroe and Whiteside even though they were far from max level players, but that was their current price.

nomoreshaq wrote:
between DeMar, Kawhi, Paul George and Russell Westbrook we sure have a lot of LA Boys who never came to the Lakers. I guess what Kobe said is right.


Westbrook was never free agent and i think that one day he will come to the Lakers, maybe sooner (if we somehow trade for him next year) or maybe later (when he only has one or two years left on his contract), but he was always the one LA guy who definitely has the guts to wear purple and gold.

Harden is also from SoCal, he also was never free agent, so between him and Russ there is still hope that one day Lakers will have some LA kid bringing them more rings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

toffee wrote:
So basically i don't agree that we dodged bullet with any of these players, any max player before Lebron came means no Deng and Mozgov and any max player after Lebron means that our team is much stronger than before.


I am not moved by this reasoning. Melo and Howard would have been bad signings -- hard to argue with that. Beyond that, we can only guess how the future might have played out from that point forward.

Once you get into woulda-coulda-shoulda land the possibilities, both good and bad, are endless.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Going back . . .

Nick Anderson
Lorenzen Wright
Dikembe Mutombo (wouldn't wait to see if we signed Shaq)
Charles Oakley

a few others


Oak was in 2001, I remember that one. Oak would've helped us imo. He's one of those force multiplier enforcer types. Nets had to have Kendall Gill so bad as to steal him from us for whatever reason.

Please expand on the Gill thing, I don't remember that. ur like a laker encyclopedia i swear.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:33 pm    Post subject:

Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

activeverb wrote:
toffee wrote:
So basically i don't agree that we dodged bullet with any of these players, any max player before Lebron came means no Deng and Mozgov and any max player after Lebron means that our team is much stronger than before.


I am not moved by this reasoning. Melo and Howard would have been bad signings -- hard to argue with that. Beyond that, we can only guess how the future might have played out from that point forward.

Once you get into woulda-coulda-shoulda land the possibilities, both good and bad, are endless.


Howard in 2013 and Carmelo in 2014 were still very good players, having either of them at that point wouldn't hurt us much, last 6 years were so horrible that having any legit talent back then could only be positive for us.

Dwight 4+1 in 2013 would be gone by now, Melo 3+1 in 2014 the same thing, i really don't see how either of them would be worse than still having Deng eating our cap space for three more years.

dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.


Beal isn't worth the max if our standards only include KL.

Giannis is a pipe given our results so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.


Beal isn't worth the max if our standards only include KL.

Giannis is a pipe given our results so far.


Beal is really nice fit next to AD, Kuzma and Lebron, i think that he's worth the max.

Giannis is definitely our plan A and i honestly think that we have good chance to get him, especially with J.Kidd and their great relationship.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.


Beal isn't worth the max if our standards only include KL.

Giannis is a pipe given our results so far.


Beal is really nice fit next to AD, Kuzma and Lebron, i think that he's worth the max.

Giannis is definitely our plan A and i honestly think that we have good chance to get him, especially with J.Kidd and their great relationship.


The lakers would have been better off signing DLO, Walker, Irving, Butler or even someone like Middleton over paying someone like beal in 2 years given the roster makeup. Beal is not that good to makeup for losing 2 years of lebron's playing career any of those guys could be helping now and defeats the purpose of dodging bullets.

That's even if beal is still on board if they fail plan A. Giannis is definitely plan A but the fact they've already failed on their plan A this offseason and were taken to school by the clippers in the process doesn't give me hope they won't fail it again in 2021, especially if they're only using the J Kidd connection.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.


Beal isn't worth the max if our standards only include KL.

Giannis is a pipe given our results so far.


Beal is really nice fit next to AD, Kuzma and Lebron, i think that he's worth the max.

Giannis is definitely our plan A and i honestly think that we have good chance to get him, especially with J.Kidd and their great relationship.


The lakers would have been better off signing DLO, Walker, Irving, Butler or even someone like Middleton over paying someone like beal in 2 years given the roster makeup. Beal is not that good to makeup for losing 2 years of lebron's playing career any of those guys could be helping now and defeats the purpose of dodging bullets.

That's even if beal is still on board if they fail plan A. Giannis is definitely plan A but the fact they've already failed on their plan A this offseason and were taken to school by the clippers in the process doesn't give me hope they won't fail it again in 2021, especially if they're only using the J Kidd connection.


Right now, i think that only Irving is better than Beal, so i would definitely take Beal over Dlo, Walker, Butler or Middleton, we are good enough right now to compete next two years with Lebron, AD and role players, so i'm not sure that we are losing anything by waiting for 2021 to potentially add another max player.

Giannis is going to be interesting case to follow next two years, our recruitment needs to start right now, Clippers had one full year of tampering with Kawhi, we need to double that effort when it comes to Greek Freak.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: dodged bullets re: max contracts

toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Dodging this year's bullets is meaningless if we're setting up ourselves to take them again in 2021, only with a worse FA class.


Giannis or Beal in 2021 and we are set for the future.


Beal isn't worth the max if our standards only include KL.

Giannis is a pipe given our results so far.


Beal is really nice fit next to AD, Kuzma and Lebron, i think that he's worth the max.

Giannis is definitely our plan A and i honestly think that we have good chance to get him, especially with J.Kidd and their great relationship.


The lakers would have been better off signing DLO, Walker, Irving, Butler or even someone like Middleton over paying someone like beal in 2 years given the roster makeup. Beal is not that good to makeup for losing 2 years of lebron's playing career any of those guys could be helping now and defeats the purpose of dodging bullets.

That's even if beal is still on board if they fail plan A. Giannis is definitely plan A but the fact they've already failed on their plan A this offseason and were taken to school by the clippers in the process doesn't give me hope they won't fail it again in 2021, especially if they're only using the J Kidd connection.


Right now, i think that only Irving is better than Beal, so i would definitely take Beal over Dlo, Walker, Butler or Middleton, we are good enough right now to compete next two years with Lebron, AD and role players, so i'm not sure that we are losing anything by waiting for 2021 to potentially add another max player.

Giannis is going to be interesting case to follow next two years, our recruitment needs to start right now, Clippers had one full year of tampering with Kawhi, we need to double that effort when it comes to Greek Freak.


Beal was never available right now, which is the important part. It's not pair beal with AD/Lebron it's pair beal with AD/Lebron+2 years from now vs Dlo/Walker/Middleton/Butler with AD/Lebron now.

The point of dodging bullets is to avoid the current situation for a better one. I don't see how pairing AD/Bron+Beal 2 years later is any better than pairing them with Dlo/Walker/Butler/Middleton now. Beal is not that good otherwise washington would have been in the playoffs or over .500 in the east, something even Walker and Dlo were able to do by themselves without another star.

And again that's if Beal is still on the board because the reason the lakers don't have someone like Walker/Butler/DLO/Middleton/Irving right now is they weren't plan A. Giannis requires double the effort but do the lakers realize this while focusing on a championship?

A concern about this "2021 plan" is a lack of commitment. The Lakers want to win a championship but also chase major FA's again given the contracts they handed out. My fear is by trying to have flexibility to do both, the lakers end up failing on either end. The clippers had a year to tamper and still needed to sell the farm in convincing KL. Masai had some luck when the raptors won the championship, but still needed to go all in for them to have a chance.

The lakers need to learn when to be flexible or when to commit. Otherwise they'll end up failing plan A and B again in 2021 without any championships to show for it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject:

To be fair, it seems that all max players this summer had their minds made up even before free agency started, and none of them had Lakers as their top priority.

Irving wanted to go to Brooklyn, Butler wanted to go to Miami, Middleton wanted to stay with the Bucks and Walker already committed to Boston few days before FA started.

Leonard was the only one who took his time to decide about his future, but looking in hindsight he wanted to go to the Clippers from the get-go and the real reason for delay was because some other players didn't want to team up with him there (Durant, Butler, Irving), so he pressured our neighbours to trade for George.

When you look at it this way, we never had any chance to get max player this summer, even after AD trade, all these players already had their plans and even if we didn't waited for Leonard, i don't think that we would be in a position to get any of them.

D'Angelo was one of the options, but from all reports we never wanted to give him max money, so i'm not sure if we really missed on anybody this summer by waiting for Kawhi, certain role players like Seth Curry or Bogdanovic or Ross have received bigger offers elsewhere.

All in all, i think that we did great this summer and i like that we kept our cap flexibility for 2021, here is one cool article from yesterday about Giannis and his first Nike signature sneakers, there is a lot about Kobe and his influence on Greek Freak, i think that he can also play vital role in recruiting Greek Freak in 2021.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-story-behind-giannis-antetokounmpos-first-nike-signature-sneaker/
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:48 am    Post subject:

toffee wrote:
To be fair, it seems that all max players this summer had their minds made up even before free agency started, and none of them had Lakers as their top priority.

Irving wanted to go to Brooklyn, Butler wanted to go to Miami, Middleton wanted to stay with the Bucks and Walker already committed to Boston few days before FA started.

Leonard was the only one who took his time to decide about his future, but looking in hindsight he wanted to go to the Clippers from the get-go and the real reason for delay was because some other players didn't want to team up with him there (Durant, Butler, Irving), so he pressured our neighbours to trade for George.

When you look at it this way, we never had any chance to get max player this summer, even after AD trade, all these players already had their plans and even if we didn't waited for Leonard, i don't think that we would be in a position to get any of them.

D'Angelo was one of the options, but from all reports we never wanted to give him max money, so i'm not sure if we really missed on anybody this summer by waiting for Kawhi, certain role players like Seth Curry or Bogdanovic or Ross have received bigger offers elsewhere.

All in all, i think that we did great this summer and i like that we kept our cap flexibility for 2021, here is one cool article from yesterday about Giannis and his first Nike signature sneakers, there is a lot about Kobe and his influence on Greek Freak, i think that he can also play vital role in recruiting Greek Freak in 2021.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-story-behind-giannis-antetokounmpos-first-nike-signature-sneaker/


If one of the deepest FA classes in recent years had every max FA destination mapped out beforehand and none of them included the lakers, then it tells what you need to know about the Laker's recruiting process.

Nobody had Butler to Miami, they had him closer to a bigger market or resigning with Philly. Walker was linked to resigning with the Hornets until the Celtics made him their plan A once they learned of Irving's and Horford's departure. Irving was linked to the Knicks until he changed his mind to the Nets due to their recent success as well as being home, in which durant soon followed after. The point is there was plenty of time to get them to change their minds had the lakers made a serious effort.

Kawhi took his time but the Lakers acted like they had inside info when in reality it was the Clippers. That's the problem with the whole Kawhi saga, the Lakers acted like they knew everything when in reality they were behind the curve and got played in the process. They should have created a deadline for Kawhi so that they wouldn't miss out on the remaining FA's. Even the knicks understood this when they backed out of having a meeting with KL.

The fact the lakers didn't want to pay dlo the max further shows their lack of understanding the FA process. He did eventually get the max by a team that views him as trade bait. We can debate on whether he deserves it or not but most people knew it was his market value.

All in all, the lakers showed they were completely outclassed when it comes to max FA's and struck out in the process. If you believe they were never in a position to get a max FA this past offseason, then they're going to be in a worse one in 2021 with a 2 year older lebron, the reputation of striking out, a worse FA class and a plan A with less connections to them than their previous one.

Kobe recruiting Giannis? Look how that worked out with Kawhi. Using the J Kidd connection? What if that isn't what recruits Giannis because other teams got the inside scoop unlike the lakers? This is why I'm not a fan of 2021 plan. It's hard to win a championship if you're focused on max FA's down the line and if you can't show the ability to obtain them, then you'll have a situation where you end with up with neither.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:53 am    Post subject:

I’m not sure you can say we dodged the bullet recently. Mozdeng was running straight into the bullet...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:00 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
toffee wrote:
To be fair, it seems that all max players this summer had their minds made up even before free agency started, and none of them had Lakers as their top priority.

Irving wanted to go to Brooklyn, Butler wanted to go to Miami, Middleton wanted to stay with the Bucks and Walker already committed to Boston few days before FA started.

Leonard was the only one who took his time to decide about his future, but looking in hindsight he wanted to go to the Clippers from the get-go and the real reason for delay was because some other players didn't want to team up with him there (Durant, Butler, Irving), so he pressured our neighbours to trade for George.

When you look at it this way, we never had any chance to get max player this summer, even after AD trade, all these players already had their plans and even if we didn't waited for Leonard, i don't think that we would be in a position to get any of them.

D'Angelo was one of the options, but from all reports we never wanted to give him max money, so i'm not sure if we really missed on anybody this summer by waiting for Kawhi, certain role players like Seth Curry or Bogdanovic or Ross have received bigger offers elsewhere.

All in all, i think that we did great this summer and i like that we kept our cap flexibility for 2021, here is one cool article from yesterday about Giannis and his first Nike signature sneakers, there is a lot about Kobe and his influence on Greek Freak, i think that he can also play vital role in recruiting Greek Freak in 2021.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-story-behind-giannis-antetokounmpos-first-nike-signature-sneaker/


If one of the deepest FA classes in recent years had every max FA destination mapped out beforehand and none of them included the lakers, then it tells what you need to know about the Laker's recruiting process.

Nobody had Butler to Miami, they had him closer to a bigger market or resigning with Philly. Walker was linked to resigning with the Hornets until the Celtics made him their plan A once they learned of Irving's and Horford's departure. Irving was linked to the Knicks until he changed his mind to the Nets due to their recent success as well as being home, in which durant soon followed after. The point is there was plenty of time to get them to change their minds had the lakers made a serious effort.

Kawhi took his time but the Lakers acted like they had inside info when in reality it was the Clippers. That's the problem with the whole Kawhi saga, the Lakers acted like they knew everything when in reality they were behind the curve and got played in the process. They should have created a deadline for Kawhi so that they wouldn't miss out on the remaining FA's. Even the knicks understood this when they backed out of having a meeting with KL.

The fact the lakers didn't want to pay dlo the max further shows their lack of understanding the FA process. He did eventually get the max by a team that views him as trade bait. We can debate on whether he deserves it or not but most people knew it was his market value.

All in all, the lakers showed they were completely outclassed when it comes to max FA's and struck out in the process. If you believe they were never in a position to get a max FA this past offseason, then they're going to be in a worse one in 2021 with a 2 year older lebron, the reputation of striking out, a worse FA class and a plan A with less connections to them than their previous one.

Kobe recruiting Giannis? Look how that worked out with Kawhi. Using the J Kidd connection? What if that isn't what recruits Giannis because other teams got the inside scoop unlike the lakers? This is why I'm not a fan of 2021 plan. It's hard to win a championship if you're focused on max FA's down the line and if you can't show the ability to obtain them, then you'll have a situation where you end with up with neither.


I must say something about Jimmy Butler, at the time i thought it wasn't important, but looking at it now, it seems that tampering in NBA goes much deeper than people might think.

Few weeks before free agency started, i remember seeing tweet from some NBA reporter how "Miami would like to sign Butler, but they don't have cap space", i brushed that off at first, but it kinda stuck with me, once free agency was only couple of hours away and when all kinds of rumors started flying around, Jimmy to Miami seemed like a done deal, and not only that, even sign-and-trade was already arranged so that Miami can clear enough space for him, so if i had to bet, i would say that Pat Riley recruited Butler as soon as 76ers ended their playoff run.

It's really hard to know what's going on behind the scene, ever since Kevin Durant signed with Roc Nations i was assuming that one day he will end up in Brooklyn, all those Knicks rumours were kinda iffy, the same goes for Kyrie, once he switched his agents and went to Roc Nation, i was sure that he's going to the Nets along with KD, so i dont know if Lakers ever had realistic shot to get him or was his mind made up long time ago.

I don't know what to believe about Kemba, some reporters were saying that there is mutual interest between him and the Lakers, but others were saying that he wants to stay in the East, when it comes to Dlo, i think that giving him max wouldn't be the worst thing ever, he did improve a lot since we traded him, but he obviously wasn't as high on our list as it was reported by some insiders, so again it's hard to know what to believe.

Kawhi definitely played with us, he only used us as leverage, i kinda understand it from his perspective and in the end he got what he wanted, but of course it sucks from our perspective, because as fans we hope that somebody like him would take us seriously into consideration.

Now it's time to move on, lick our wounds and learn some lessons, this wasn't the first time that we got rejected and when you look at all those players that we targeted in the previous 6-7 years, we got rejected a lot, but we somehow ended up with Lebron and AD, definitely the best two players from that group, so maybe there is a reason for optimism going forward, maybe striking out this summer was the best thing that happened, maybe losing battle now is the reason why we are going to win the war in two years.
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:01 am    Post subject:

As much as I like him; max money for DLO would have been an overpay too.
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