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| How do you grade the Lakers offseason? |
| A |
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47% |
[ 70 ] |
| B |
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41% |
[ 61 ] |
| C |
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10% |
[ 16 ] |
| D |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| F |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 148 |
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| Author |
Message |
ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 12632
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 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:54 am Post subject: |
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A- > Short term
Incomplete > Long term
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MIMLaker
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Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 10015
Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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GRADE: B
Successes:
(1) Trade for AD - landed the 2nd superstar we wanted for years.
(2) Pivoted from lack of Kawhi signing to depth for team needs:
(a) 3&D Wing
-- Green - $15M, reasonable considering reported demand from Dallas, filled need for experienced 3&D wing.
-- Dudley - OK pickup at minimum, though better suited for 2nd backup depth.
(b) Bigs
-- McGee - $4M - reasonable increase from minimum salary last year, fills AD's desire for companion big, keeps him away from Houston and other WC teams with interest in him;
-- Cousins - $3.5M - a steal at the price if continues recovery from quad and Achilles injuries. Scoring, rebounding, and chemistry with AD all pluses.
(c) Point Guard/ Playmaker
-- Bradley - $4.7M room exception - Fortunate waiver timing, quick response
by FO. Not pure PG, but 2ndary playmaker to LBJ. Showed P&R skills end of last year with MEM. If he gets healthy, quality starter.
-- Caruso - $2.7M - Crafty move to bring back potential rotation player. Needs to prove late-season run not a fluke, but worthwhile move based on work ethic and likabiltiy with team/ fans.
(d) Shooters
-- Cook - $3M - Reasonable pickup, youth with champ experience, enthusiasm for team.
-- Daniels -$2M - Decent for price, but lack of defensive rep a concern. Possible rush signing, but still addresses glaring need.
Concerns
(1) Long-term strategy - BIG concern. Trading 1-year punting for 2 year-punting, with no price-controlled contracts for young players other than Kuzma. Almost no tradeable/ mid-level priced assets left. Loss of draft picks negates one of our biggest assets in outstanding scouting/ draft team. If AD doesn't re-sign, we're back to square one -and it'll be a CRATER.
(2) Lack of SF depth - No solid SF depth behind LBJ, both Kuz and Dudley may lack quickness needed for consistent defense.
(3) Perimeter size - KCP, Caruso, and Green are our only guards over 6-4. Tough cover for larger wings (Clips, et al.)
(4) KCP signing - Even at $8M/yr for 2 years means KCP averaging $11M+ from us for 4 years. Reliance on him as 3&D wing a gamble. Prolonged leverage by Klutch a concern.
(5) 2ndary playmakers - Went from too many iso playmakers last year (LBJ, BI, Lance) to too few. Rondo not an offensive threat. Kuz's ability to generate for self AND others unproven. Bradley helps, buit a lot rides on his health.
(6) Coaching longevity - 3-year contract may undermine Vogel authority. FO trying to straddle the fence between Klutch and non-Klutch.
MIM
Last edited by MIMLaker on Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46696
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
This reminds me of when I go on Amazon and I always see everything gets between a 3 and 5 star rating. Almost never see a one or two star rating. Why? because no one would ever buy anything with 1 or 2 stars.
If you are simply giving an A grade to a B or C outcome... then it renders your grading system inaccurate.
Kawhi would have made it an A outcome
Signing Kawhi this season and signing AD next season would also be an A outcome.
I gave it a C because of the trade's impact on the future.
Average... about what it deserved.
A B grade I can understand if you are a generous grader... Flawed but I agree with the point that they created a team that could compete for a title this year even if they mortgaged their future to do so.
But coming up with A plus and A plus plus ratings to mask the potential pitfalls is silly.
Average is what this move deserved considering we had the main agent pretty much locked up for next year and we gave away so many assets
Above average I can see because they made some nice value signings for the season.
But excellent?
Come on people... this was not excellent in the sense of how people are supposed to give out A grades. |
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AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | It B-.
Grading the off-season must include primarily an evaluation of what the Lakers front office is left with at the end of the the period.
Fundamentally, they are relying on an aged (35 in December) player to be a guard. There's not been a great history in this league of team success springing from aged mobile players.
That the second best player hasn't pushed a team into real playoff contention, the grade is B at best and a weak B. |
I pretty much agree. Not having a good PG could be an issue, and we are relying on guys who aren’t at the positive end of the health spectrum. Health is determining series these days. |
but going into next season with the same lineup WOULD have been a major issue. Without any added benefits.
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Good points:
- Signing of DMC on cheap
- Great addition of AB
- Great coaching staff
Bad points:
- Signing of KCP
- Overpay for AD ( IMO giving Hart was too much)
- Signing of Rondo |
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PHILosophize
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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B+
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
This reminds me of when I go on Amazon and I always see everything gets between a 3 and 5 star rating. Almost never see a one or two star rating. Why? because no one would ever buy anything with 1 or 2 stars.
If you are simply giving an A grade to a B or C outcome... then it renders your grading system inaccurate.
Kawhi would have made it an A outcome
Signing Kawhi this season and signing AD next season would also be an A outcome.
I gave it a C because of the trade's impact on the future.
Average... about what it deserved.
A B grade I can understand if you are a generous grader... Flawed but I agree with the point that they created a team that could compete for a title this year even if they mortgaged their future to do so.
But coming up with A plus and A plus plus ratings to mask the potential pitfalls is silly.
Average is what this move deserved considering we had the main agent pretty much locked up for next year and we gave away so many assets
Above average I can see because they made some nice value signings for the season.
But excellent?
Come on people... this was not excellent in the sense of how people are supposed to give out A grades. |
You're coming across as a self-loathing fan with a desire to see the team self-sabotage itself (like with wanting Dwight??). Don't get me wrong... dissension and differing views is good... but this isn't it, i.e., what you are doing. You've made more posts about "mortgaging away the future" or even about effin' Dwight than you have in the AD thread... and don't care that the team has put itself into a position that they can compete for titles... while forgetting that we're competing against 29 other teams for that title and for players. TBH, I'm beginning to even think that you're not a Lakers fan using the traditional meaning of the word "fan". Seems like you're more a fan of picking a team who has had a large amount of success so you can associate yourself not only with that success... but also have access to the large number of fans of that team who you can then debate/discuss with (Man Utd is another example) and pick stances where you want to be proven right, even if that comes at the expense of "your team" and if you drag the rest of us fans down with you. Very disappointing.
PS: I posted this not to get personal in any way, but in the hope that you will be able to see what you're doing and upon reflection... perhaps, sing a happy tune from time to time instead of being a constant dark, rain cloud hanging over the team... that would be a welcome, pleasant surprise.
Last edited by LAL1947 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
This reminds me of when I go on Amazon and I always see everything gets between a 3 and 5 star rating. Almost never see a one or two star rating. Why? because no one would ever buy anything with 1 or 2 stars.
If you are simply giving an A grade to a B or C outcome... then it renders your grading system inaccurate.
Kawhi would have made it an A outcome
Signing Kawhi this season and signing AD next season would also be an A outcome.
I gave it a C because of the trade's impact on the future.
Average... about what it deserved.
A B grade I can understand if you are a generous grader... Flawed but I agree with the point that they created a team that could compete for a title this year even if they mortgaged their future to do so.
But coming up with A plus and A plus plus ratings to mask the potential pitfalls is silly.
Average is what this move deserved considering we had the main agent pretty much locked up for next year and we gave away so many assets
Above average I can see because they made some nice value signings for the season.
But excellent?
Come on people... this was not excellent in the sense of how people are supposed to give out A grades. |
I see plenty of 1 grades on Amazon. If anything, I'd say 5 and 1 are probably the two most common grades.
Anyway, I'd give the offseason a B, but I have no problem with anyone giving it an A. We went from a non-playoff team to a legitimate contender.
I also have no problem with you giving it a C for your reasons. I just raise my eyes a little at you thinking your opinion is the end-all, be-all ("come on, people") rather than just one voice of 100 voices. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I gave a B.
Wanted to give an A, but that goes to "Always Be Closing."
We couldn't close on KL, but we sure did rebound quickly with a solid Plan B.
If I could give two grades (one for getting a max FA/one for post KL-rejection), I would give a D/B+.
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Wilkes52
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
Location: Far from home
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | It B-.
Grading the off-season must include primarily an evaluation of what the Lakers front office is left with at the end of the the period.
Fundamentally, they are relying on an aged (35 in December) player to be a guard. There's not been a great history in this league of team success springing from aged mobile players.
That the second best player hasn't pushed a team into real playoff contention, the grade is B at best and a weak B. |
I pretty much agree. Not having a good PG could be an issue, and we are relying on guys who aren’t at the positive end of the health spectrum. Health is determining series these days. |
but going into next season with the same lineup WOULD have been a major issue. Without any added benefits. |
I disagree. I think that the LeBron signing itself put the Lakers on a three season track with good chance to make the post-season to improve season to season quite nicely (with Lonzo, Ingram and Hart), had LJ not been injured in season one of the contract. I'd like to have seen what that would have produced with Lonzo and BI (with a couple of refreshed adjunct players) instead of what we have today.
At one time I was a big Anthony Davis fan, but with the past three seasons, much less so.
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| A because of AD . We got a franchise changer so there’s that. The role players that we have also fit our system. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: |
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B+. If we got AD for slightly fewer assets and landed KL, it would've been an A+.
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4453
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Not signing any contract for more than 2 years was HUGE. |
So that’s like semi-punt, which we have been doing forever it seems. I’m still disappointed we didn’t land Kyrie or jimmy butler. We need that 2nd perimeter superstar to win in today’s NBA. It’s no longer a big men’s league. Also the failure to extend AD immediately after the trade will cast a cloud over this team rest of the season if they don’t perform up to par. |
It’s useful for 2 maybe three years tops, but continually signing journeymen to
1 or 2 year contracts in hopes of signing a big name the following year while sucking as a team is irresponsible imo and got Mitch and Jim fired.
An important part of attracting a FA is showing them they are coming to a decent team. The Lakers and Knicks think something is up with players choosing other teams but it is as simple imo. Why should a superstar be interested in joining a team that hasn’t show its capable of putting a competitive team together? If a team can’t put a competitive team together they likely won’t be able to take the next step and put a willing team around the FA recruited. So...don’t think marquee FA are avoiding the Lakers and Knicks due to front office, it’s because the teams have sucked for a number of years and players don’t want to be a part of that. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
This reminds me of when I go on Amazon and I always see everything gets between a 3 and 5 star rating. Almost never see a one or two star rating. Why? because no one would ever buy anything with 1 or 2 stars.
If you are simply giving an A grade to a B or C outcome... then it renders your grading system inaccurate.
Kawhi would have made it an A outcome
Signing Kawhi this season and signing AD next season would also be an A outcome.
I gave it a C because of the trade's impact on the future.
Average... about what it deserved.
A B grade I can understand if you are a generous grader... Flawed but I agree with the point that they created a team that could compete for a title this year even if they mortgaged their future to do so.
But coming up with A plus and A plus plus ratings to mask the potential pitfalls is silly.
Average is what this move deserved considering we had the main agent pretty much locked up for next year and we gave away so many assets
Above average I can see because they made some nice value signings for the season.
But excellent?
Come on people... this was not excellent in the sense of how people are supposed to give out A grades. |
You're coming across as a self-loathing fan with a desire to see the team self-sabotage itself (like with wanting Dwight??). Don't get me wrong... dissension and differing views is good... but this isn't it, i.e., what you are doing. You've made more posts about "mortgaging away the future" or even about effin' Dwight than you have in the AD thread... and don't care that the team has put itself into a position that they can compete for titles... while forgetting that we're competing against 29 other teams for that title and for players. TBH, I'm beginning to even think that you're not a Lakers fan using the traditional meaning of the word "fan". Seems like you're more a fan of picking a team who has had a large amount of success so you can associate yourself not only with that success... but also have access to the large number of fans of that team who you can then debate/discuss with (Man Utd is another example) and pick stances where you want to be proven right, even if that comes at the expense of "your team" and if you drag the rest of us fans down with you. Very disappointing.
PS: I posted this not to get personal in any way, but in the hope that you will be able to see what you're doing and upon reflection... perhaps, sing a happy tune from time to time instead of being a constant dark, rain cloud hanging over the team... that would be a welcome, pleasant surprise. |
And you sound like an intern out of the Lakers front office eager to squash any narrative that sounds like dissent.
They gave up too much in the trade.
Sure they are in a good position... but they were in a better position before the trade.
You can paint all the doomsday scenarios about how we had to trade for AD because of what happened with PG and Kawhi... but Rich and LBJ had AD under control. I get that neither wanted to waste another year... but they had the leverage to walk away from the deal if they wanted to do so.
They were determined to get the deal done come hell or high water... and yes they are better adding AD... but a good GM would have come out with two more elite agents... or ended up with two elite agents and part of the core intact.
An optimal job would have been to end up with AD/Kawhi/LBJ... so they have a core for the future.
Another optimal scenario would have been to end up with LBJ/Kawhi and most of the core and picks and go for AD next season.
Instead we have AD and LBJ with Kuzma under cost control, Boogie and Rondo on minimums... and Avery for a good contract. We overpaid for KCP and Danny Green and we signed a lot of one dimensional shooters.
The situation is good for the next season... maybe longer if DMC recovers and we find a way to keep him... but this ecosystem is not sustainable.
The Dwight point is smallest of issues.
I pointed out the fact that if he goes to the Clippers and returns to form... in the same way I hope Cousins returns to form with us... we lose part of the immense advantage we have at the 5.
You can disagree with my take... but to psychoanalyze this as self sabotage is absurd.
If sending Dwight to Europe is an option... sign me up.
I just don't want him on a competitor, in case he has a couple good seasons left.
In terms of being a fair weather fan... why would I be on this board during the worst time in our history? Why would I threaten to leave when we were on course to make the playoffs for the first time in years?
I've been a fan since probably before you were born... I've seen West and Chamberlain play.
I'm simply unhappy of spending six years watching us accumulate assets... becoming fans of those players... and then watching them all get traded because of a sports agency.
You can disagree with me all you want... but your logic about self sabotage or fair weather fan makes zero sense. |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | F for the trade... A for the recovery... especially if they get Iggy, so overall C.
Next season will be good... but the test will be in future seasons when they have to actually pay for quality players like Rondo, DMC, Kuzma.
Things look very good because we have two potentially all star quality players working for nothing. If you take away those two... the future looks much dimmer.
If LBJ leaves in two or three years giving us cap space and the chance to pair AD with another young star in 2021... then I'd say Rob did a good job setting us up with these short contracts.
If Klutch pairs him with AD as a package deal beyond those two or three years... then the gain of signing this elite young player has been virtually neutralized... unless LBJ does the unexpected and plays like an elite until he's 40.
Sorry to sound negative... but I think there's reasonable worry to think some of these scenarios may happen. |
You should really consider adding this to your signature.  |
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Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Short term gains is an A. Long term is a C. Therefore a B.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Short term gains is an A. Long term is a C. Therefore a B. |
Yeah, it's always tough to grade two sort of distinct criteria.
But 2020 is an eternity away. Very much looking forward to this upcoming season.
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: |
You should really consider adding this to your signature. |
I don't think I am negative... I only say it out of consideration for other posters.
Some people wake up every morning and think the world is wonderful... ignoring the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 160 million Americans combined. They think it's fine that we've been at perpetual war for years... killing people daily... but choose not to put it on the news... they think that the Earth is doing amazing... and there is no need to do anything to protect our environment.
My point is that sure, no one likes to hear the truth... if you want to be socially acceptable you will just tell people what they want to hear if you want to be liked... but what good is a board where everyone says the exact same thing?
Maybe I'll try that for a week... just be a cheerleader.
You'll all laugh and say Thank God for a week vacation... but it still won't change the reality of the situation.
There's a reason why you only hear about why everything is okay other than a few random criminals on eyewitness news dragging us down from our collective amazingness.
It gets better ratings if you tell everyone we are doing great. |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4453
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | I’m gonna give it a A but like LakerLanny said, if we got Kawhi it would have been a A++
But still we have a lot of quality players on our roster, and the good thing is that we finally have a veteran team that is gonna be expected to win, no more relying on youth to lead us to wins, we are a team that will aim for 55-60 wins and get a championship next year... |
This reminds me of when I go on Amazon and I always see everything gets between a 3 and 5 star rating. Almost never see a one or two star rating. Why? because no one would ever buy anything with 1 or 2 stars.
If you are simply giving an A grade to a B or C outcome... then it renders your grading system inaccurate.
Kawhi would have made it an A outcome
Signing Kawhi this season and signing AD next season would also be an A outcome.
I gave it a C because of the trade's impact on the future.
Average... about what it deserved.
A B grade I can understand if you are a generous grader... Flawed but I agree with the point that they created a team that could compete for a title this year even if they mortgaged their future to do so.
But coming up with A plus and A plus plus ratings to mask the potential pitfalls is silly.
Average is what this move deserved considering we had the main agent pretty much locked up for next year and we gave away so many assets
Above average I can see because they made some nice value signings for the season.
But excellent?
Come on people... this was not excellent in the sense of how people are supposed to give out A grades. |
You're coming across as a self-loathing fan with a desire to see the team self-sabotage itself (like with wanting Dwight??). Don't get me wrong... dissension and differing views is good... but this isn't it, i.e., what you are doing. You've made more posts about "mortgaging away the future" or even about effin' Dwight than you have in the AD thread... and don't care that the team has put itself into a position that they can compete for titles... while forgetting that we're competing against 29 other teams for that title and for players. TBH, I'm beginning to even think that you're not a Lakers fan using the traditional meaning of the word "fan". Seems like you're more a fan of picking a team who has had a large amount of success so you can associate yourself not only with that success... but also have access to the large number of fans of that team who you can then debate/discuss with (Man Utd is another example) and pick stances where you want to be proven right, even if that comes at the expense of "your team" and if you drag the rest of us fans down with you. Very disappointing.
PS: I posted this not to get personal in any way, but in the hope that you will be able to see what you're doing and upon reflection... perhaps, sing a happy tune from time to time instead of being a constant dark, rain cloud hanging over the team... that would be a welcome, pleasant surprise. |
And you sound like an intern out of the Lakers front office eager to squash any narrative that sounds like dissent.
They gave up too much in the trade.
Sure they are in a good position... but they were in a better position before the trade.
You can paint all the doomsday scenarios about how we had to trade for AD because of what happened with PG and Kawhi... but Rich and LBJ had AD under control. I get that neither wanted to waste another year... but they had the leverage to walk away from the deal if they wanted to do so.
They were determined to get the deal done come hell or high water... and yes they are better adding AD... but a good GM would have come out with two more elite agents... or ended up with two elite agents and part of the core intact.
An optimal job would have been to end up with AD/Kawhi/LBJ... so they have a core for the future.
Another optimal scenario would have been to end up with LBJ/Kawhi and most of the core and picks and go for AD next season.
Instead we have AD and LBJ with Kuzma under cost control, Boogie and Rondo on minimums... and Avery for a good contract. We overpaid for KCP and Danny Green and we signed a lot of one dimensional shooters.
The situation is good for the next season... maybe longer if DMC recovers and we find a way to keep him... but this ecosystem is not sustainable.
The Dwight point is smallest of issues.
I pointed out the fact that if he goes to the Clippers and returns to form... in the same way I hope Cousins returns to form with us... we lose part of the immense advantage we have at the 5.
You can disagree with my take... but to psychoanalyze this as self sabotage is absurd.
If sending Dwight to Europe is an option... sign me up.
I just don't want him on a competitor, in case he has a couple good seasons left.
In terms of being a fair weather fan... why would I be on this board during the worst time in our history? Why would I threaten to leave when we were on course to make the playoffs for the first time in years?
I've been a fan since probably before you were born... I've seen West and Chamberlain play.
I'm simply unhappy of spending six years watching us accumulate assets... becoming fans of those players... and then watching them all get traded because of a sports agency.
You can disagree with me all you want... but your logic about self sabotage or fair weather fan makes zero sense. |
Seems like we have commonality. I had been a fan for almost 40 years b4 quitting this summer to keep from being admitted to an institution. I know that’s stupid but it was either that or quit so I quit. Anyway, not the point...
Which is...I believe Laker fans have grown to a point where losing is acceptable and most applaud any action, one of the major causes of the Lakers long time sorrow has been the fan’s acceptance of failure.
The plan was 2 max plus the young core...the Lakers didn’t event get two and the core. Had to use the young players to get the second and wiffed on the 3rd. With that in mind I feel a fan had to be unaware or intellectually irresponsible to fall short of goal yet still grade an A. Because of the signings and recovery I gave a C but understand those that may give a B. No A tho. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: |
Seems like we have commonality. I had been a fan for almost 40 years b4 quitting this summer to keep from being admitted to an institution. I know that’s stupid but it was either that or quit so I quit. Anyway, not the point...
Which is...I believe Laker fans have grown to a point where losing is acceptable and most applaud any action, one of the major causes of the Lakers long time sorrow has been the fan’s acceptance of failure.
The plan was 2 max plus the young core...the Lakers didn’t event get two and the core. Had to use the young players to get the second and wiffed on the 3rd. With that in mind I feel a fan had to be unaware or intellectually irresponsible to fall short of goal yet still grade an A. Because of the signings and recovery I gave a C but understand those that may give a B. No A tho. |
Yeah, apparently I'm a fair weather fan because I'm upset that our entire team got traded... instead of wholeheartedly rooting for an incomplete super team.
Who cares about the human cost of the trade as long as other humans are wearing purple and gold... |
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bandiger
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Not signing any contract for more than 2 years was HUGE. |
So that’s like semi-punt, which we have been doing forever it seems. I’m still disappointed we didn’t land Kyrie or jimmy butler. We need that 2nd perimeter superstar to win in today’s NBA. It’s no longer a big men’s league. Also the failure to extend AD immediately after the trade will cast a cloud over this team rest of the season if they don’t perform up to par. |
It’s useful for 2 maybe three years tops, but continually signing journeymen to
1 or 2 year contracts in hopes of signing a big name the following year while sucking as a team is irresponsible imo and got Mitch and Jim fired.
An important part of attracting a FA is showing them they are coming to a decent team. The Lakers and Knicks think something is up with players choosing other teams but it is as simple imo. Why should a superstar be interested in joining a team that hasn’t show its capable of putting a competitive team together? If a team can’t put a competitive team together they likely won’t be able to take the next step and put a willing team around the FA recruited. So...don’t think marquee FA are avoiding the Lakers and Knicks due to front office, it’s because the teams have sucked for a number of years and players don’t want to be a part of that. |
Agreed, the one thing that keeps nagging is the amount of mercenaries with short term contracts. I’d probably feel a lot better if we still had either Ball or BI. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | Not signing any contract for more than 2 years was HUGE. |
So that’s like semi-punt, which we have been doing forever it seems. I’m still disappointed we didn’t land Kyrie or jimmy butler. We need that 2nd perimeter superstar to win in today’s NBA. It’s no longer a big men’s league. Also the failure to extend AD immediately after the trade will cast a cloud over this team rest of the season if they don’t perform up to par. |
It’s useful for 2 maybe three years tops, but continually signing journeymen to
1 or 2 year contracts in hopes of signing a big name the following year while sucking as a team is irresponsible imo and got Mitch and Jim fired.
An important part of attracting a FA is showing them they are coming to a decent team. The Lakers and Knicks think something is up with players choosing other teams but it is as simple imo. Why should a superstar be interested in joining a team that hasn’t show its capable of putting a competitive team together? If a team can’t put a competitive team together they likely won’t be able to take the next step and put a willing team around the FA recruited. So...don’t think marquee FA are avoiding the Lakers and Knicks due to front office, it’s because the teams have sucked for a number of years and players don’t want to be a part of that. |
Agreed, the one thing that keeps nagging is the amount of mercenaries with short term contracts. I’d probably feel a lot better if we still had either Ball or BI. |
It's a fine line.
I would have loved to keep one of BI/Lonzo, but remember at the time, we were in the mix for KL, which meant for salary reasons, both (plus the 4th pick) had to be aggregated so we could theoretically pursue a AD/KL/LBJ trio.
Maybe we could have held off on trading for AD, and just see if we got KL and if not, maybe we could have somehow kept one of them b/c the salary ballast issue would not be in play anymore.
Anyways, they set it up where they got AD AND had a chance to sign KL. We couldn't close on KL but I'm sure most would agree it was worth shooting your shot at the time.
Having missed on KL, the moves they made were very sound. Good actually.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: |
You should really consider adding this to your signature. |
I don't think I am negative... I only say it out of consideration for other posters.
Some people wake up every morning and think the world is wonderful... ignoring the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 160 million Americans combined. They think it's fine that we've been at perpetual war for years... killing people daily... but choose not to put it on the news... they think that the Earth is doing amazing... and there is no need to do anything to protect our environment.
My point is that sure, no one likes to hear the truth... if you want to be socially acceptable you will just tell people what they want to hear if you want to be liked... but what good is a board where everyone says the exact same thing?
Maybe I'll try that for a week... just be a cheerleader.
You'll all laugh and say Thank God for a week vacation... but it still won't change the reality of the situation.
There's a reason why you only hear about why everything is okay other than a few random criminals on eyewitness news dragging us down from our collective amazingness.
It gets better ratings if you tell everyone we are doing great. |
Yeah that's a nice speech and everything but it's disingenuous. You might get (bleep) on too much on this board by not being all sunshine and rainbows but we both know that you say plenty of things that get you criticized that are purely your own opinion. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: |
You should really consider adding this to your signature. |
I don't think I am negative... I only say it out of consideration for other posters.
Some people wake up every morning and think the world is wonderful... ignoring the fact that three people own more wealth than the bottom 160 million Americans combined. They think it's fine that we've been at perpetual war for years... killing people daily... but choose not to put it on the news... they think that the Earth is doing amazing... and there is no need to do anything to protect our environment.
My point is that sure, no one likes to hear the truth... if you want to be socially acceptable you will just tell people what they want to hear if you want to be liked... but what good is a board where everyone says the exact same thing?
Maybe I'll try that for a week... just be a cheerleader.
You'll all laugh and say Thank God for a week vacation... but it still won't change the reality of the situation.
There's a reason why you only hear about why everything is okay other than a few random criminals on eyewitness news dragging us down from our collective amazingness.
It gets better ratings if you tell everyone we are doing great. |
Yeah that's a nice speech and everything but it's disingenuous. You might get (bleep) on too much on this board by not being all sunshine and rainbows but we both know that you say plenty of things that get you criticized that are purely your own opinion. |
Almost everything said here is our own opinion... and when I've been factually wrong as I was the other day... I say I'm sorry about it.
My opinion is a minority opinion... that's the main problem with it.
If all I did was make one sentence affirming posts most of you would think I'm doing great. |
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