Lakers felt they got played by Kawhi (Leonard responds: “Lakers didn’t have to wait for me” pg.17)
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:28 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kwase wrote:
Bruh, Dr. Buss traded Shaq when he felt he was aging.


That's not what happened.

Shaq was only 31 at the time of the trade. He wasn't "aging."

The Shaq-Kobe feud was going full steam. Shaq demanded a trade after he learned Phil Jackson was leaving. Kobe was becoming a free agent and looking like he was about to leave. It was a messy situation, and the Lakers traded Shaq rather than lose Kobe.


Shaq cursed a Dr. Buss in Hawai'i '[Expletive] Pay Me' during a PS game in front of everyone.

It was clear by that point it was going to be either or for us and Dr. B was quoted as saying that he didn't want to trade Shaq but he'd rather trade him a year early than a year too late. He went all in with Kobe and it was the right call.

Shaq was famous for getting he surgery done on 'company time' because the injury happened on 'company time' while Kobe was famous for what Kobe is famous for...the work ethic of greatness.

It was an absolute mess that pitted Laker fans against Laker fans...Kobe handled it like an impetuous kid. Shaq handled it like an entitled aging superstar. And the media feasted on it for years while Dr. Buss calmly guided us through it even if there were a few bumps in the road named Rudy T, Smush, Kwame, Mihm, Hamblen and more...

But the fact remains that Dr. Buss wanted both Kobe and Shaq to retire Lakers having won at least 5 rings together...and had Kobe been a little more patient and Shaq been more into his conditioning we likely would have had 6+ rings between them.

As it is...5 Rings is damn good and really an executive miracle when you consider the constant acrimony and media fueled drama on top of it.

I love Shaq and I love Kobe...but I have more respect for Kobe because he put it on the line every night for 20 seasons.


Sure, the whole Shaq situation was complex. I'm just saying it's silly to think that us trading Shack at age 31 tells you anything about how Buss would have felt about signing Lebron.


I was just adding more context to your point dude...No way Dr. Buss passes on LeBron James last year. Dr. Buss was always about getting the biggest stars and it's hard to think of one bigger than LBJ.

This offseason has felt the most like a Dr. Buss offseason since he passed away.

From the day Magic quit to the day Rob pivoted from KL to roster depth has been a resurrection of what we really are all about imo...competing for Championships.

If someone would have told me we'd be championship favorites next year on the day Magic quit I would have slapped him.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kwase wrote:
Bruh, Dr. Buss traded Shaq when he felt he was aging.


That's not what happened.

Shaq was only 31 at the time of the trade. He wasn't "aging."

The Shaq-Kobe feud was going full steam. Shaq demanded a trade after he learned Phil Jackson was leaving. Kobe was becoming a free agent and looking like he was about to leave. It was a messy situation, and the Lakers traded Shaq rather than lose Kobe.


Shaq cursed a Dr. Buss in Hawai'i '[Expletive] Pay Me' during a PS game in front of everyone.

It was clear by that point it was going to be either or for us and Dr. B was quoted as saying that he didn't want to trade Shaq but he'd rather trade him a year early than a year too late. He went all in with Kobe and it was the right call.

Shaq was famous for getting he surgery done on 'company time' because the injury happened on 'company time' while Kobe was famous for what Kobe is famous for...the work ethic of greatness.

It was an absolute mess that pitted Laker fans against Laker fans...Kobe handled it like an impetuous kid. Shaq handled it like an entitled aging superstar. And the media feasted on it for years while Dr. Buss calmly guided us through it even if there were a few bumps in the road named Rudy T, Smush, Kwame, Mihm, Hamblen and more...

But the fact remains that Dr. Buss wanted both Kobe and Shaq to retire Lakers having won at least 5 rings together...and had Kobe been a little more patient and Shaq been more into his conditioning we likely would have had 6+ rings between them.

As it is...5 Rings is damn good and really an executive miracle when you consider the constant acrimony and media fueled drama on top of it.

I love Shaq and I love Kobe...but I have more respect for Kobe because he put it on the line every night for 20 seasons.


Sure, the whole Shaq situation was complex. I'm just saying it's silly to think that us trading Shack at age 31 tells you anything about how Buss would have felt about signing Lebron.


I was just adding more context to your point dude...No way Dr. Buss passes on LeBron James last year. Dr. Buss was always about getting the biggest stars and it's hard to think of one bigger than LBJ.

This offseason has felt the most like a Dr. Buss offseason since he passed away.

From the day Magic quit to the day Rob pivoted from KL to roster depth has been a resurrection of what we really are all about imo...competing for Championships.

If someone would have told me we'd be championship favorites next year on the day Magic quit I would have slapped him.

i agree. i dont remember it at all the way av is describing it, lol. sticking with kobe was 100% the right move.
also, i will add to your point...shaq himself says that he would have won more had he stayed and it *may* have been the wrong move. kobe didnt want shaq off the team, he just wanted shaq to stay in shape and be hard working like him. shaq is 100% responsible for forcing a trade essentially. anyone who doesnt bring up that MF pay me incident, like av likes to ignore, is being completely disingenuous about that whole saga. if you want to get traded, that is one of the best ways. kobe didn't do anything like that, kobe didn't say he wanted shaq off the team, nothing like that. all kobe did was complain about shaq being fat and lazy....and A LOT OF FANS were saying the same thing. so i don't even necessarily agree that kobe acted like an impetuous kid, but if that is how you see that jim gray interview, then that is sort of true then. but for the most part, i just saw kobe complaining about shaq's performance. Shaq is the one who has a history of wanting teammates off the team. he wanted van exel off, he wanted eddie off, etc etc...that is how he is.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
I was just adding more context to your point dude...No way Dr. Buss passes on LeBron James last year. Dr. Buss was always about getting the biggest stars and it's hard to think of one bigger than LBJ.

This offseason has felt the most like a Dr. Buss offseason since he passed away.

From the day Magic quit to the day Rob pivoted from KL to roster depth has been a resurrection of what we really are all about imo...competing for Championships.

If someone would have told me we'd be championship favorites next year on the day Magic quit I would have slapped him.



Yeah, I don't get the complaining. We have Lebron and AD and we have as good a shot at winning as anyone. Not sure what people are expecting.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Time to lock this post up. DELETED KL. He is not a Laker (and we may be lucky he is not). Lets move on.


This is exactly what I came to say here.

Too many scary cats in here worrying about kl and chocker
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject:

Move this to General Ball if people want to keep talking about a Clipper.
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:31 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Time to lock this post up. DELETED KL. He is not a Laker (and we may be lucky he is not). Lets move on.


This is exactly what I came to say here.

Too many scary cats in here worrying about kl and chocker

KL had one of the luckiest finals in hx. Both KD and Klay out and his teammates stepped up. That shot vs Philly bounces the other way they very well may have lost in OT and people wouldnt be calling him the best player in the NBA. Redemption tour by bron and AD will be great
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Time to lock this post up. DELETED KL. He is not a Laker (and we may be lucky he is not). Lets move on.


This is exactly what I came to say here.

Too many scary cats in here worrying about kl and chocker

KL had one of the luckiest finals in hx. Both KD and Klay out and his teammates stepped up. That shot vs Philly bounces the other way they very well may have lost in OT and people wouldnt be calling him the best player in the NBA. Redemption tour by bron and AD will be great


It's funny how no FA wanted to play with this guy Either: KD, Kyrie, Butler, Klay

His sidekick is a chocker and I would Target Lou Williams in playoffs, play after play
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lak_repeat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

Just wait till he has a home game against the lakers and Lebron and AD get more love then him, he will wish he made a better choice than the clips.
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Pureshot77
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

lak_repeat wrote:
Just wait till he has a home game against the lakers and Lebron and AD get more love then him, he will wish he made a better choice than the clips.


He already said he doesn't play for the fans.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

i never cared for this guy but i did care about him making decision quicker so we could have gone after dlo early and still sign D Green

DLO
Gree
AB

would have been awesome
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
i never cared for this guy but i did care about him making decision quicker so we could have gone after dlo early and still sign D Green

DLO
Gree
AB

would have been awesome


DLO got like 28m in a sign and trade. I doubt he was coming here. I can’t see the Lakers offering more than 23m.
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:23 am    Post subject:

DLo was never in play even if we offered him the max. Brooklyn got a pick back for trading him and a little extra cap space to sign Deandre Jordan.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

Balmer probably told him he would build an arena closer to SD and rename the team.

I sort of like the parity the moves created
Westbrook with Harden will be entertaining
PG and the Klaw

Pelicans might beat us if we're Rusty
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
DLo was never in play even if we offered him the max. Brooklyn got a pick back for trading him and a little extra cap space to sign Deandre Jordan.


Brooklyn got a freebie they had no control over. If Dlo chose an offer from us, there's little they could do except keep Dlo @ the max.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Kawhi and Lou Williams are the 2 most overrated players in the NBA. Lebron is a level above Kawhi. Toronto went 17-5 last season without Kawhi. That speaks for itself. GS would have beat Toronto in 4-5 games if they were healthy.
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lakeshowtacular
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject:

secund2nun wrote:
Kawhi and Lou Williams are the 2 most overrated players in the NBA. Lebron is a level above Kawhi. Toronto went 17-5 last season without Kawhi. That speaks for itself. GS would have beat Toronto in 4-5 games if they were healthy.

Agreed, this KL hype is getting next level ridiculous. Great season, great player, but best in the game...c’mon.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject:

Screw this guy. I rather have AD!
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Screw this guy. I rather have AD!


mos def

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
i never cared for this guy but i did care about him making decision quicker so we could have gone after dlo early and still sign D Green

DLO
Gree
AB

would have been awesome


There was enough cap space for Russell at $27,285,000 and Green at $14,634,146 ?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject:

Paying DLO $27 mil would have been a catastrophic mistake by the Lakers so thank god they didn't. Jesus, that would have been horrible. They did much better spending the money getting the players they got. Thank god!!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Paying DLO $27 mil would have been a catastrophic mistake by the Lakers so thank god they didn't. Jesus, that would have been horrible. They did much better spending the money getting the players they got. Thank god!!


I often find myself internally debated what I would do... both with and without hindsight. For the sake of argument now, I find signing D'lo to both have it's merits and warts versus the path of depth. While D'lo would no out have given us an actually building block with continued Allstar evolution, we'd be without some death that will be critical in winning a title.

D'lo at $27M, Boogie for $3.5M, Caruso for $1.5, Bradley for RE. Daniels, Dudley, and Rondo were all minimum guys. That's all we could have done with the cap space and then we'd be trowing minimums around. FWIW there were some great vet min options this past FA: RHJ, Austin Rivers, and Jordan Bell come to mind.

So assuming all that could happen versus what we did, it's a tough call. Green, KCP, Cook, McGee versus D'lo. Obv the collection of guys sets us up better to win this year while D'lo becomes a franchise cornerstone going forward. And given where we are as a franchise, winning now wins out I suppose. It'll also preserve cap space for 2021 which should not be overlooked.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Screw this guy. I rather have AD!


Yes, thank goodness we got the player who couldn’t get his team to the playoffs instead of the guy who led his team to a title. I am fine with AD but he doesn’t stack up to Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AD23 wrote:
Screw this guy. I rather have AD!


Yes, thank goodness we got the player who couldn’t get his team to the playoffs instead of the guy who led his team to a title. I am fine with AD but he doesn’t stack up to Kawhi.


Rather have the star who wants to be here instead of the one who pretended to want to be here. But thank goodness, Kawhi is on your team now.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Paying DLO $27 mil would have been a catastrophic mistake by the Lakers so thank god they didn't. Jesus, that would have been horrible. They did much better spending the money getting the players they got. Thank god!!


I often find myself internally debated what I would do... both with and without hindsight. For the sake of argument now, I find signing D'lo to both have it's merits and warts versus the path of depth. While D'lo would no out have given us an actually building block with continued Allstar evolution, we'd be without some death that will be critical in winning a title.

D'lo at $27M, Boogie for $3.5M, Caruso for $1.5, Bradley for RE. Daniels, Dudley, and Rondo were all minimum guys. That's all we could have done with the cap space and then we'd be trowing minimums around. FWIW there were some great vet min options this past FA: RHJ, Austin Rivers, and Jordan Bell come to mind.

So assuming all that could happen versus what we did, it's a tough call. Green, KCP, Cook, McGee versus D'lo. Obv the collection of guys sets us up better to win this year while D'lo becomes a franchise cornerstone going forward. And given where we are as a franchise, winning now wins out I suppose. It'll also preserve cap space for 2021 which should not be overlooked.


It would have worked out well either way. You have AD/DLO as your future cornerstones or in this case, you have AD and a hope to get Giannis in 2021. Some would rather have the bird in the hand but others want the chase of getting a transcendent player like Giannis.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:48 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AD23 wrote:
Screw this guy. I rather have AD!


Yes, thank goodness we got the player who couldn’t get his team to the playoffs instead of the guy who led his team to a title. I am fine with AD but he doesn’t stack up to Kawhi.


I agree, but it’s pretty close. In this era of the NBA, I’d always value a perimeter star over a big man, but Davis is the one guy who makes me hesitate.

Anyway, the most important challenge for Vogel and the staff will be finding a way to maximize Davis on a roster with Lebron. People keep citing Davis’ numbers from New Orleans, but Bosh and Love both had strikingly lower scoring and rebounding numbers as soon as they joined Lebron. We don’t have a third star, so we can’t afford that sort of reduction. To be clear: I am not making a dire prediction. I’m just identifying an issue that the coaching staff will need to address.

Leonard wouldn’t have presented that issue. Wade and Irving were fine with Lebron, though Wade’s numbers dipped due to injuries. Lebron and Leonard would have been an interesting duo. Alas, it was not to be.
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