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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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 Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | Execs from other teams are the ones actually communicating with the Lakers FO. If they're hearing Kurt's voice on the other end of the phone call, of if they hear Rob needs to get Kurt's approval before anything can get done, then that's a clear indicator of his rank in the front office. |
Yet no one has ever claimed that any of this has happened. |
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JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here. Pincus is not a reporter. He's a glorified blogger. I rarely read his stuff because he usually has nothing to say that has not already been covered by the real media and by the posters on this board. A few years ago, he actually did some reporting, and I paid more attention to him. Today, he's just another blogger trying to be an analyst even though he has no qualifications. If you throw the proverbial rock down the street, you'll hit a hundred bloggers just like him.
Having said that, I have no reason to doubt that he talked to some executive from another team who referred to Rambis as a "shadow president." So what? An executive from another team would have no idea what is going on in the Lakers' front office. |
Pincus was one of several sources that I linked including Woj and McMenamin from ESPN.
| Quote: | The Lakers will not hire someone to replace Johnson as president of basketball operations, a team source told ESPN, according to Ramona Shelburne. So Pelinka -- with Kurt Rambis involved -- is expected to oversee the draft and free agency. Sources said Pelinka and Rambis worked in tandem during the coaching interview process.
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Johnson hired Rambis, a former Lakers forward and assistant coach, to be an adviser to the president in September 2018. With Johnson gone, Rambis has emerged as a powerful voice in basketball operations and played a major role in the coaching search, as Wojnarowski reported.
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Wojnarowski reported (Phil) Jackson and Rambis strongly considered Vogel's candidacy in New York before hiring Jeff Hornacek in 2016. ESPN |
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The fixation with his coaching record is silly, and others have responded to that. But now you are telling us that he was "hand selected" to play a "crucial role" in hiring the head coach. Nonsense. The facts are that he worked with Pelinka in the coaching search. The rest is just the weird Rambis-phobia that seems to afflict some of you. |
Here is Kurt's entire basketball resume prior to his current role:
As player:
1980–1981 AEK Athens
1981–1988 Los Angeles Lakers
1988–1989 Charlotte Hornets
1989–1991 Phoenix Suns
1991–1993 Sacramento Kings
1993–1995 Los Angeles Lakers
As coach:
1994–1999 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
1999 Los Angeles Lakers
2001–2004; 2005–2009 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
2009–2011 Minnesota Timberwolves
2013–2014 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
2014–2016 New York Knicks (associate HC)
2016 New York Knicks (interim)
2016–2018 New York Knicks (associate HC
Coaching is Kurt's closest relevant experience. If you dismiss that as silly, what is left? |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Coaching is Kurt's closest relevant experience. If you dismiss that as silly, what is left? |
It’s a tough stance to cite Kurt’s 30+ years in the NBA as his qualification for the job while simultaneously suggesting we must deem his experience as a coach as inadmissible, while also dismissing reports from multiple sources in regards to his growing power and role within the FO. Seems like an awful lot of contortion to justify Kurt freaking Rambis.
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mxgardens
Sixth Man
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 40
Location: UWS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I have to pause when I read some of these posts. A few years ago, many people were defending Mitch and Jim. Where are the elite standards then? Why were we not asking for more then in terms of being able to hire elite executives outside of the Laker family? I mean, at least Jeanie and this group delivered on the one promise they made when there was a regime change. It was made clear by Magic that they would get 2 stars back in LA and get back into being a contender. This was delivered within the timeline Magic set - which was 2 years from when the regime changed. I don't think this FO is elite, but my goodness compared to the old regime, this is so much better. When I read posters who used to go out of their way to defend Jim and Mitch, come here and now expect and ask elite standards for the current FO, it makes me question why there was not this demand when Jim was in charge?
Mitch has been in CHA for over a year. They've gotten worse and are going nowhere. I know it's been a short time - but there seems to be much of the same things going on there. He was a great trade negotiator, but the new CBA and the way things were going in free agency, we absolutely made the right call bringing in a former agent like Pelinka. Pelinka established the ties with Klutch, and got this done. He knew it because he himself was an agent. To me the comparison should not be about where the Lakers could be with Toronto's basketball president, it should be about where the Lakers are in comparison to when Jeanie's bro ran things. It's always going to be run by one of siblings, and IMO we're far better off with Jeanie than we were with Jim.
For sure if the Lakers were not a family business and the children especially Jeanie did not grow up watching Dr Buss hire within the Laker family, they probably wind up looking at things differently. Yes it would be great if the Lakers would just look beyond themselves, and go for the best FO executive available. However even Dr Buss did not do this. He hired within the Laker family. He kept old ties, and valued old former employees and considered bringing them back. Think about how many times Mike Dunleavy Sr. got an interview as a Laker coach in the 2004-2013 era. IMO Dunleavy SUCKED as a coach. Yet why did he always get an interview? Because Dr Buss liked him, was friends with him, and was always interested in working with the same people. There's been so many examples of Dr Buss doing exactly what Jeanie is. I think she believes she's doing it like her father. Now this may not be the right approach to have, or the best one, or the absolute most successful one. However at the very least, I respect that she delivered 2 stars within 2 years, with an eye on 2021/Giannis, and the Lakers went from 0% chance at a title, to within striking distance of a title. If we can't even acknowledge this, I mean, there's nothing else to debate. We were just a few months ago talking about being the Knicks West. There were fans on this board claiming us to being Knicks West. Clearly, that talk has evaporated.
To me, once you removed Magic, the drama all ends. Magic is an attention whore, and we see this in the Kawhi stuff. Nothing leaks, other than Magic's stuff. I love Magic the player and I appreciate his efforts in bringing Lebron. I'm happy he left. I feel this current FO is united and much more cohesive and capable than they are given credit for. I think Pelinka is very smart guy, I think he may be a little arrogant for my liking, but he is smart and shown he has learned from his (and mostly Magic's) mistakes from last year. Magic leaving was the best thing to happen to this FO, IMO. I think we'll see a very united professional FO here on out. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:58 am Post subject: |
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To me the bottom line to this is simpler than the thread makes it.
After Magic abruptly resigned in April, the team was in chaos. People were being blamed left and right. Rambis became one of those culprits. No one knew what he did, or what his role was on the team, so there was all sorts of speculations, rumors and innuendo painting him in a bad light. No one knows if the speculation, rumors, and innuendo are true.
Fast forward to July. After landing AD and some good free agents, people are excited about the team. Other than because someone decided to start this thread, you don’t hear much talk about Rambis anymore. It will likely stay that way unless things can south and people look once again for someone to blame. |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53835
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | To me the bottom line to this is simpler than the thread makes it.
After Magic abruptly resigned in April, the team was in chaos. People were being blamed left and right. Rambis became one of those culprits. No one knew what he did, or what his role was on the team, so there was all sorts of speculations, rumors and innuendo painting him in a bad light. No one knows if the speculation, rumors, and innuendo are true.
Fast forward to July. After landing AD and some good free agents, people are excited about the team. Other than because someone decided to start this thread, you don’t hear much talk about Rambis anymore. It will likely stay that way unless things can south and people look once again for someone to blame. |
It started well before that. Jeanie has had two cracks now at assembling a front office in the span of 2 years and both times she empowered her pals, all of whom have little to no front office experience. Kurt is merely a symptom of this attitude of hers and i think questioning this philosophy seems quite reasonable. Empowering Magic was obviously a mistake and his resignation offered her an unearned opportunity to learn from it and assemble a team of qualified pros. She took that opportunity and doubled down, increasing the power her pals that were already there had. This is worthy of critique, even if LeBron James’ desire to make movies has masked things for a few years. The mere fact that she has insisted on Rambis in (at the very least) an advisory role while turning away Jerry West for a similar position tells you all you need to know about what she values when making hiring decisions.
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say here. Pincus is not a reporter. He's a glorified blogger. I rarely read his stuff because he usually has nothing to say that has not already been covered by the real media and by the posters on this board. A few years ago, he actually did some reporting, and I paid more attention to him. Today, he's just another blogger trying to be an analyst even though he has no qualifications. If you throw the proverbial rock down the street, you'll hit a hundred bloggers just like him.
Having said that, I have no reason to doubt that he talked to some executive from another team who referred to Rambis as a "shadow president." So what? An executive from another team would have no idea what is going on in the Lakers' front office. |
Pincus was one of several sources that I linked including Woj and McMenamin from ESPN. |
None of the other sources said anything about Rambis being the shadow president, except for one link that cited back to Pincus. The passage you quote is illustrative. I highlight the references to Pelinka, because the quotes actually indicate that Pelinka is in charge:
| Quote: | The Lakers will not hire someone to replace Johnson as president of basketball operations, a team source told ESPN, according to Ramona Shelburne. So Pelinka -- with Kurt Rambis involved -- is expected to oversee the draft and free agency. Sources said Pelinka and Rambis worked in tandem during the coaching interview process.
...
Johnson hired Rambis, a former Lakers forward and assistant coach, to be an adviser to the president in September 2018. With Johnson gone, Rambis has emerged as a powerful voice in basketball operations and played a major role in the coaching search, as Wojnarowski reported.
...
Wojnarowski reported (Phil) Jackson and Rambis strongly considered Vogel's candidacy in New York before hiring Jeff Hornacek in 2016. ESPN |
What in any of this is inconsistent with Rambis being a senior basketball advisor? I find the Rambis-phobia to be a little weird. So Rambis was going to be "involved" in the draft and free agency though Pelinka is going to "oversee" both of them. Why is this a problem?
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The fixation with his coaching record is silly, and others have responded to that. But now you are telling us that he was "hand selected" to play a "crucial role" in hiring the head coach. Nonsense. The facts are that he worked with Pelinka in the coaching search. The rest is just the weird Rambis-phobia that seems to afflict some of you. |
Here is Kurt's entire basketball resume prior to his current role:
As player:
1980–1981 AEK Athens
1981–1988 Los Angeles Lakers
1988–1989 Charlotte Hornets
1989–1991 Phoenix Suns
1991–1993 Sacramento Kings
1993–1995 Los Angeles Lakers
As coach:
1994–1999 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
1999 Los Angeles Lakers
2001–2004; 2005–2009 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
2009–2011 Minnesota Timberwolves
2013–2014 Los Angeles Lakers (assistant)
2014–2016 New York Knicks (associate HC)
2016 New York Knicks (interim)
2016–2018 New York Knicks (associate HC
Coaching is Kurt's closest relevant experience. If you dismiss that as silly, what is left? |
So are you including his record as an assistant coach? Seriously. His record as a head coach is what you hang your hat on, but his resume includes a lot more than that. As a player and an assistant coach, he worked under Jerry West, Pat Riley, and Phil Jackson. This is a guy who has been working in the NBA for over 35 years. He is well qualified to be a senior basketball advisor. In fact, this wouldn't even be an issue except that you think that he is some sort of shadow PoBO, even though all of the external indications are that this is not the case.
As I've said, I think this is really about Jeanie Buss, not Kurt Rambis. If you approved of Jeanie's front office, you would have no problem with Kurt Rambis being a senior basketball advisor. But you do not approve and think that Jeanie should do things differently, and so Kurt Rambis becomes a scapegoat of sorts. |
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