Ryan West leaving the Lakers Organization
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject:

Is Ryan the Lakers' fan's Rorschach test?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject:

mxgardens wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


I guess that’s going to be the spin, at least for now. In light of the public dysfunctionality of the front office, I’m not sure this will prove convincing. Also, the idea that another Buss brother is in line to run the FO is alarming.


I am using the past as a guide for what to expect in the future.

Mitch replaced Jerry West with Jim having his position because he is family.

Magic and Pelinka brought in because of being considered to be family. The young Buss brothers working their way up the ladder in the FO. Until they surprise and bring in a definite outsider for a top position in the FO, I will expect them to continue to promote from within.

"Considered to be family"? Look, ownership and this FO have been far from perfect the last several years. But you can't ignore the objective fact that just two years ago a member of the Buss family was terminated as the effective head of basketball ops--a process that required significant effort, expense, and emotional dislocation--and two non-family members were put in charge. The single person now in charge is not under any reasonable definition a member of the Buss family. I guarantee you will never lose an argument if you just re-frame the debate to suit your position; every person in the Lakers FO will be considered "family" if you define family as every person in the FO.


I was on a cell phone when I wrote that and am on a cell phone now.

I usually write with italics when needed, but skipped it today because of it being somewhat tedious on the phone.

When I write family when not specifying the Buss family, it means the collective Lakers Family which would cover Magic and Pelinka.


In the post that you quoted, notice that I mention the hiring of a definite outsider for a top FO position would be a surprise. Neither Magic or Pelinka meet my definition of being a true outsider


Many regulars probably realized that I meant the collective Lakers Family rather than just the Buss family.

There have been several discussions in the past about Jeanie sticking with those considered to be Lakers Family rather than bring a true outsider (or more) into the upper levels of the corporate org chart.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Is Ryan the Lakers' fan's Rorschach test?


No, that’s DeAngelo Russell. I know what you mean, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


Pelinka is a "shield" for Jeanie. She will keep him in place as long as possible. However, if the team loses and the pressure amounts, he will take the blame and step down. Could be 2020 or 2021.

Would Joey or Jesse take over the front office then? The Lakers would be the only pro team doing that and the experiment did not work out well last time even with an experienced GM in place.

The team is so left behind in terms of professionalization of the front office. I wish either Joey or Jess could replace Jeanie asap and hire a professional FO. The Buss family is probably not going that direction though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


Pelinka is a "shield" for Jeanie. She will keep him in place as long as possible. However, if the team loses and the pressure amounts, he will take the blame and step down. Could be 2020 or 2021.

Would Joey or Jesse take over the front office then? The Lakers would be the only pro team doing that and the experiment did not work out well last time even with an experienced GM in place.

The team is so left behind in terms of professionalization of the front office. I wish either Joey or Jess could replace Jeanie asap and hire a professional FO. The Buss family is probably not going that direction though.


Personally, I am sick of all the whining about "the front office." In the past two years, we acquired two of the best players in the NBA, and we have built a team that is one of the genuine contenders this year.

But still people whine, whine, whine because -- oh my God! -- other teams land good players too, and it doesn't look like we get to automatically hang a banner without playing the season.

Whine, whine, whine.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


Pelinka is a "shield" for Jeanie. She will keep him in place as long as possible. However, if the team loses and the pressure amounts, he will take the blame and step down. Could be 2020 or 2021.

Would Joey or Jesse take over the front office then? The Lakers would be the only pro team doing that and the experiment did not work out well last time even with an experienced GM in place.

The team is so left behind in terms of professionalization of the front office. I wish either Joey or Jess could replace Jeanie asap and hire a professional FO. The Buss family is probably not going that direction though.


Personally, I am sick of all the whining about "the front office." In the past two years, we acquired two of the best players in the NBA, and we have built a team that is one of the genuine contenders this year.

But still people whine, whine, whine because -- oh my God! -- other teams land good players too, and it doesn't look like we get to automatically hang a banner without playing the season.

Whine, whine, whine.

I want the Lakers to win. But some of these "fans" deserve to have their team lose.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Is Ryan the Lakers' fan's Rorschach test?

He's a Rorschach test. But I wouldn't call him the Rorschach test.

Up until Magic left, our front office has been pairings for the last half decade. Jim and Mitch. Magic and Rob. Not to mention Jeanie being added into conversations.

Narratives have been formed around events for a while now. And nobody knows what's been Jeanie, Jim, Mitch, Magic, or Rob's decisions. So depending on who people liked and disliked, successes and failures have been spread around to whomever is convenient.

FWIW, I've given credit for drafting Clarkson, Kuzma, and Hart to Ryan.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LaxT wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


Pelinka is a "shield" for Jeanie. She will keep him in place as long as possible. However, if the team loses and the pressure amounts, he will take the blame and step down. Could be 2020 or 2021.

Would Joey or Jesse take over the front office then? The Lakers would be the only pro team doing that and the experiment did not work out well last time even with an experienced GM in place.

The team is so left behind in terms of professionalization of the front office. I wish either Joey or Jess could replace Jeanie asap and hire a professional FO. The Buss family is probably not going that direction though.


Personally, I am sick of all the whining about "the front office." In the past two years, we acquired two of the best players in the NBA, and we have built a team that is one of the genuine contenders this year.

But still people whine, whine, whine because -- oh my God! -- other teams land good players too, and it doesn't look like we get to automatically hang a banner without playing the season.

Whine, whine, whine.

I want the Lakers to win. But some of these "fans" deserve to have their team lose.


Fans are not cheerleaders. Fans have opinions, some consistent with the team's propaganda, some not, and LG is a place to voice those opinions. After six years of missing the playoffs, Would you be surprised that people have different ideas of why that happened?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

"Professionalization"
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Is Ryan the Lakers' fan's Rorschach test?

He's a Rorschach test. But I wouldn't call him the Rorschach test.

Up until Magic left, our front office has been pairings for the last half decade. Jim and Mitch. Magic and Rob. Not to mention Jeanie being added into conversations.

Narratives have been formed around events for a while now. And nobody knows what's been Jeanie, Jim, Mitch, Magic, or Rob's decisions. So depending on who people liked and disliked, successes and failures have been spread around to whomever is convenient.

FWIW, I've given credit for drafting Clarkson, Kuzma, and Hart to Ryan.


Thought Bill Bertka was responsible for Kuzma.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject:

Super Mega Team wrote:

Thought Bill Bertka was responsible for Kuzma.


According to emplay it was Jesse Buss.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2773040-la-isnt-the-process-west-but-jesse-buss-giving-lakers-necessary-draft-edge
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Is Ryan the Lakers' fan's Rorschach test?

He's a Rorschach test. But I wouldn't call him the Rorschach test.

Up until Magic left, our front office has been pairings for the last half decade. Jim and Mitch. Magic and Rob. Not to mention Jeanie being added into conversations.

Narratives have been formed around events for a while now. And nobody knows what's been Jeanie, Jim, Mitch, Magic, or Rob's decisions. So depending on who people liked and disliked, successes and failures have been spread around to whomever is convenient.

FWIW, I've given credit for drafting Clarkson, Kuzma, and Hart to Ryan.


According to a Backstage Lakers segment I recall, credit for Clarkson was almost entirely given by Mitch to Jesse.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:33 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Super Mega Team wrote:

Thought Bill Bertka was responsible for Kuzma.


According to emplay it was Jesse Buss.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2773040-la-isnt-the-process-west-but-jesse-buss-giving-lakers-necessary-draft-edge


This article suggests it was Bertka that turned Jesse Buss onto Kuzma.

https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-lakers-scout-bill-bertka-was-the-first-member-of-the-front-office-to-notice-kyle-kuzma/2017/11/15/
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
After 10 years in the Lakers front office, Director of Player Personnel Ryan West is leaving the organization, league sources tell ESPN. West has been well-regarded league-wide for his role in many of the Lakers draft successes of the past decade.


https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1155256427050668032


How is it "draft successes" if we had almost none of our drafted players left with us? Jesse Buss would have been fired long ago if he wasn't part of the Buss family. I like the shakeup. Hopefully, we might actually draft players that will stick around in the future.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
After 10 years in the Lakers front office, Director of Player Personnel Ryan West is leaving the organization, league sources tell ESPN. West has been well-regarded league-wide for his role in many of the Lakers draft successes of the past decade.


https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1155256427050668032


How is it "draft successes" if we had almost none of our drafted players left with us? Jesse Buss would have been fired long ago if he wasn't part of the Buss family. I like the shakeup. Hopefully, we might actually draft players that will stick around in the future.


So it's the draft people's fault that the higher ups either traded all the young players or let them walk for free?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:03 am    Post subject:

I think West is a loss, but I can understand it. He wants to grow, there is no space for him now and may never be with Jesse coming up. They have Mazzella taking over the Director of Personnel position and he did a great job at SB Lakers.

Sometime it is what it is, good luck to Ryan and thanks for the great job.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject:

Pureshot77 wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
Super Mega Team wrote:

Thought Bill Bertka was responsible for Kuzma.


According to emplay it was Jesse Buss.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2773040-la-isnt-the-process-west-but-jesse-buss-giving-lakers-necessary-draft-edge


This article suggests it was Bertka that turned Jesse Buss onto Kuzma.

https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-lakers-scout-bill-bertka-was-the-first-member-of-the-front-office-to-notice-kyle-kuzma/2017/11/15/


According to Ramona: “… Jesse Buss told me this story: Bill Bertka is the guy who was assigned to scout Kuzma and he just yelled at everyone until they drafted him … every single draft meeting they had, Bill Bertka was on the draft Kyle Kuzma train …”

https://twitter.com/TheLakersReview/status/1105970468958265344
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject:

with no picks for the next 7 years unless they buy second rounders, he probably woudn't have much to do. Clippers don't have any picks either. I wonder if hes changing position from scouting
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
mxgardens wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


I guess that’s going to be the spin, at least for now. In light of the public dysfunctionality of the front office, I’m not sure this will prove convincing. Also, the idea that another Buss brother is in line to run the FO is alarming.


I am using the past as a guide for what to expect in the future.

Mitch replaced Jerry West with Jim having his position because he is family.

Magic and Pelinka brought in because of being considered to be family. The young Buss brothers working their way up the ladder in the FO. Until they surprise and bring in a definite outsider for a top position in the FO, I will expect them to continue to promote from within.

"Considered to be family"? Look, ownership and this FO have been far from perfect the last several years. But you can't ignore the objective fact that just two years ago a member of the Buss family was terminated as the effective head of basketball ops--a process that required significant effort, expense, and emotional dislocation--and two non-family members were put in charge. The single person now in charge is not under any reasonable definition a member of the Buss family. I guarantee you will never lose an argument if you just re-frame the debate to suit your position; every person in the Lakers FO will be considered "family" if you define family as every person in the FO.


I was on a cell phone when I wrote that and am on a cell phone now.

I usually write with italics when needed, but skipped it today because of it being somewhat tedious on the phone.

When I write family when not specifying the Buss family, it means the collective Lakers Family which would cover Magic and Pelinka.


In the post that you quoted, notice that I mention the hiring of a definite outsider for a top FO position would be a surprise. Neither Magic or Pelinka meet my definition of being a true outsider


Many regulars probably realized that I meant the collective Lakers Family rather than just the Buss family.

There have been several discussions in the past about Jeanie sticking with those considered to be Lakers Family rather than bring a true outsider (or more) into the upper levels of the corporate org chart.

Thanks. I understand what you are saying, but based on your definition of the "Lakers Family," how are Jerry and Ryan West not at the very least is the same position as Rob Pelinka?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
with no picks for the next 7 years unless they buy second rounders, he probably woudn't have much to do. Clippers don't have any picks either. I wonder if hes changing position from scouting


The Lakers will have first round picks in 2020, 2022, 2023, 2025, 2026, and 2027.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
with no picks for the next 7 years unless they buy second rounders, he probably woudn't have much to do. Clippers don't have any picks either. I wonder if hes changing position from scouting

While I am sure your description of the Lakers' future draft status was meant for dramatic effect (which I applaud), I have noticed others on this board--seemingly seriously--describing our upcoming first round picks in a similar vein. Actually, we have (1) our own 2020 first rounder, (2) either our own 2021 first rounder (if in the top 8 picks) or our own 2022 first rounder, (3) either our own or NO's 2023 first rounder, and (4) either our own or NO's 2025 first rounder. In other words, we have four (4) first round draft picks over the next six (6) drafts. And that's the end of the AD trade.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject:

mxgardens wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
mxgardens wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
not sure how to take this. I liked our later 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. and maybe West was part of that? Seems like he made a business decision and good for him but i'm a bit concerned about the Lakers if they refuse to promote good talented people within the org. It's not exactly a equal opportunity type atmosphere. and the person at head doesnt seem to care. very concerning.



Pelinka is 49 and the Buss brothers active with the team are in their 30's. There is no need for the Lakers to devote resources to develop West since the Buss brothers will be ahead of him on the list of candidates to replace Pelinka in the future.

His career is going to stagnate if he doesn't move on. Maybe he never becomes a NBA GM, but he will at least get a shot to develop in a different situation.


I guess that’s going to be the spin, at least for now. In light of the public dysfunctionality of the front office, I’m not sure this will prove convincing. Also, the idea that another Buss brother is in line to run the FO is alarming.


I am using the past as a guide for what to expect in the future.

Mitch replaced Jerry West with Jim having his position because he is family.

Magic and Pelinka brought in because of being considered to be family. The young Buss brothers working their way up the ladder in the FO. Until they surprise and bring in a definite outsider for a top position in the FO, I will expect them to continue to promote from within.

"Considered to be family"? Look, ownership and this FO have been far from perfect the last several years. But you can't ignore the objective fact that just two years ago a member of the Buss family was terminated as the effective head of basketball ops--a process that required significant effort, expense, and emotional dislocation--and two non-family members were put in charge. The single person now in charge is not under any reasonable definition a member of the Buss family. I guarantee you will never lose an argument if you just re-frame the debate to suit your position; every person in the Lakers FO will be considered "family" if you define family as every person in the FO.


I was on a cell phone when I wrote that and am on a cell phone now.

I usually write with italics when needed, but skipped it today because of it being somewhat tedious on the phone.

When I write family when not specifying the Buss family, it means the collective Lakers Family which would cover Magic and Pelinka.


In the post that you quoted, notice that I mention the hiring of a definite outsider for a top FO position would be a surprise. Neither Magic or Pelinka meet my definition of being a true outsider


Many regulars probably realized that I meant the collective Lakers Family rather than just the Buss family.

There have been several discussions in the past about Jeanie sticking with those considered to be Lakers Family rather than bring a true outsider (or more) into the upper levels of the corporate org chart.

Thanks. I understand what you are saying, but based on your definition of the "Lakers Family," how are Jerry and Ryan West not at the very least is the same position as Rob Pelinka?



Ryan West and the young Buss brothers had spent their time with scouting and personnel. None of the trio had much of a background with the CBA and contracts. As Jeanie was configuring the FO to replace Mitch and Jim, they needed somebody in a senior position that they felt would be comfortable with the CBA and contracts.

If they would have paired Magic and West (or young Buss brother) in the two senior positions, then they would have lacked a good balance of skills/knowledge. Pelinka was endorsed by Kobe and had exposure to the CBA and contracts from his time spent as an agent. A pairing of Magic and Pelinka gave the FO a better balance of skills/knowledge.


In regards to Jerry West, there were several suggested reasons why he wasn't brought back as an adviser.

1. Magic wanted the glory and spotlight of building the team. Having West in-house would have diminished the glory and adulation that Magic wanted.

2. Jeanie carried a grudge because West hadn't endorsed her relationship with Phil from a few decades ago.

3. A combination of both #1 and #2 above.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Not sure what you did the last couple of years, but wish you the best.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
After 10 years in the Lakers front office, Director of Player Personnel Ryan West is leaving the organization, league sources tell ESPN. West has been well-regarded league-wide for his role in many of the Lakers draft successes of the past decade.


https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1155256427050668032


How is it "draft successes" if we had almost none of our drafted players left with us? Jesse Buss would have been fired long ago if he wasn't part of the Buss family. I like the shakeup. Hopefully, we might actually draft players that will stick around in the future.


Not understanding the logic here.

The scouting dept informs the GM/President of draft talent and has to defer to their bosses when it comes to what happens after that. But you don’t get AD without trading something of value. Thank the scouts/Jessie Buss for that. They also gave the front office another asset (which they used to get out of Mozgov). The scouting department did a great job finding late round steals and didn’t choke like plenty of other teams when picking in the lottery.
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