Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:27 pm Post subject: What is the worst championship team since 2000?
I guess it's important to define "worst" first... I'm not referring to roster construction so much as actual play during the playoffs. For example, the 2011 Mavericks were pretty weak on paper but it's hard to say that they didn't play like champions during the playoffs. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
It was the 06 Miami Heat. When you give wade 20 foul shot per game and the refs (bleep) blocking a top performing suns team from the finals your going to have the most mediocre team of the 2000 era win the championship
The suns of that year should have went to the finals and won
It was the 06 Miami Heat. When you give wade 20 foul shot per game and the refs (bleep) blocking a top performing suns team from the finals your going to have the most mediocre team of the 2000 era win the championship
The suns of that year should have went to the finals and won
hmm, where would you put Dirk in the pantheon if he had gotten 2 chips
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7910 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:57 am Post subject:
999 wrote:
It was the 06 Miami Heat. When you give wade 20 foul shot per game and the refs (bleep) blocking a top performing suns team from the finals your going to have the most mediocre team of the 2000 era win the championship
The suns of that year should have went to the finals and won
why are the 2 lakers teams included as if they are in the conversation for worst team?
I'd say the Mavs were the worse
they were a good but not great team that got on a hot 3 point shooting streak and the most perfect time during the playoffs _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
‘04 Pistons, in my opinion. They got through the East during an era when the Nets and the Cavs (the Lebron and Larry Hughes version) were blundering through to the Finals. The caught us when we were banged up and when the Phil-Shaq-Kobe triumvirate was at the peak of its dysfunctionality. They were young and hungry, while we were old and mentally tired. It was the perfect storm.
Let me put it this way: In a seven game series, is there any team on that list that you would pick the ‘04 Pistons to beat? None for me. I respect the Pistons for their defense, their toughness, and their lunch pail mentality. But they were a fluke champion.
why are the 2 lakers teams included as if they are in the conversation for worst team?
I'd say the Mavs were the worse
they were a good but not great team that got on a hot 3 point shooting streak and the most perfect time during the playoffs
That team dropped Kobe-Pau-Odom's team then KD-WB-Harden-Ibaka's team then beat down on LeBron-DWade-Bosh's team
‘04 Pistons, in my opinion. They got through the East during an era when the Nets and the Cavs (the Lebron and Larry Hughes version) were blundering through to the Finals. The caught us when we were banged up and when the Phil-Shaq-Kobe triumvirate was at the peak of its dysfunctionality. They were young and hungry, while we were old and mentally tired. It was the perfect storm.
Let me put it this way: In a seven game series, is there any team on that list that you would pick the ‘04 Pistons to beat? None for me. I respect the Pistons for their defense, their toughness, and their lunch pail mentality. But they were a fluke champion.
‘04 Pistons, in my opinion. They got through the East during an era when the Nets and the Cavs (the Lebron and Larry Hughes version) were blundering through to the Finals. The caught us when we were banged up and when the Phil-Shaq-Kobe triumvirate was at the peak of its dysfunctionality. They were young and hungry, while we were old and mentally tired. It was the perfect storm.
Let me put it this way: In a seven game series, is there any team on that list that you would pick the ‘04 Pistons to beat? None for me. I respect the Pistons for their defense, their toughness, and their lunch pail mentality. But they were a fluke champion.
1000% agree _________________ "You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you"
It was the 06 Miami Heat. When you give wade 20 foul shot per game and the refs (bleep) blocking a top performing suns team from the finals your going to have the most mediocre team of the 2000 era win the championship
The suns of that year should have went to the finals and won
Yeah, I've gotta go with the Heat. I've never been one to blame the refs a lot, but the calls in that series were the most frustrating I've ever seen, and I wasn't even a fan of either team.
Didn't the Pistons take the Spurs to 7 games in 2005? not sure i could pick then over the Heat or Mavs then.
i don't think I've seen a team with more help from the refs than that Heat team. what is sickening to think about is, if Silver decides to do this with Houston, James harden would also be an NBA champion
I'll go with the Pistons. I believe they are the only team on your list that was a below-average team on either offense or defense. (Obviously offense). They were one dimensional. As a result on any given night, they could clamp down and hold their opponents to below 70 or be blown out by 20 points themselves.
why are the 2 lakers teams included as if they are in the conversation for worst team?
I'd say the Mavs were the worse
they were a good but not great team that got on a hot 3 point shooting streak and the most perfect time during the playoffs
That team dropped Kobe-Pau-Odom's team then KD-WB-Harden-Ibaka's team then beat down on LeBron-DWade-Bosh's team
again that team simply caught a lucky shooting streak at the most perfect time. You put that Laker team and the Mavs in a time capsule and have them replay that series and I'm betting Lakers win it 8 times to 2.
That Thunder team was not ready yet... all those stars to be were 22 and younger.
And the Heat were still figuring things out out. Despite all the hype that original super team had, Lebron-Wade-Bosh was no where near a seamless fit. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
why are the 2 lakers teams included as if they are in the conversation for worst team?
I'd say the Mavs were the worse
they were a good but not great team that got on a hot 3 point shooting streak and the most perfect time during the playoffs
2009 Lakers were taken to seven games in the semis by a Rockets team without McGrady and Yao. If either or both is healthy, they probably lose that series.
The back to back Laker teams probably had one of the easiest paths to the championship in both years.
2009: Jazz, Rockets without Yao/McGrady, Nuggets (Billups/Carmelo version), Magic
2010: Thunder (not easy), Jazz, past-their-prime Phoenix Suns team, 50 win Celtics with a washed up KG _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
I'll go with the Pistons. I believe they are the only team on your list that was a below-average team on either offense or defense. (Obviously offense). They were one dimensional. As a result on any given night, they could clamp down and hold their opponents to below 70 or be blown out by 20 points themselves.
Weren't they considered one of the greatest defensive teams ever? And they were an Horry three pointer away from repeating as champions against the Spurs the year after. Plus they had four all-stars (Billups, Hamilton, Wallace x 2), plus Tayshaun Prince who was an all-star caliber player. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I'll go with the Pistons. I believe they are the only team on your list that was a below-average team on either offense or defense. (Obviously offense). They were one dimensional. As a result on any given night, they could clamp down and hold their opponents to below 70 or be blown out by 20 points themselves.
Weren't they considered one of the greatest defensive teams ever? And they were an Horry three pointer away from repeating as champions against the Spurs the year after. Plus they had four all-stars (Billups, Hamilton, Wallace x 2), plus Tayshaun Prince who was an all-star caliber player.
No team wins a title unless they’re pretty good. We aren’t comparing the Pistons to an average team. We’re comparing the Pistons to other champions. I can see an argument for the ‘06 Heat, but I think they would have beaten the ‘04 Pistons. In fact, they beat the ‘06 Pistons (a 64-win team) in six.
I'll go with the Pistons. I believe they are the only team on your list that was a below-average team on either offense or defense. (Obviously offense). They were one dimensional. As a result on any given night, they could clamp down and hold their opponents to below 70 or be blown out by 20 points themselves.
Weren't they considered one of the greatest defensive teams ever? And they were an Horry three pointer away from repeating as champions against the Spurs the year after. Plus they had four all-stars (Billups, Hamilton, Wallace x 2), plus Tayshaun Prince who was an all-star caliber player.
And you forgot Ben Wallace. I think that Pistons team was a bit underrated. The game was played differently at that time and their style was scary effective especially in the playoffs when everyone slowed down.. Every starter on that team could have been argued as a top 5 defender at their position. And while they didnt have a high powered offense they still had 3 starters who could create their own shot and everyone outside of Ben were a solid shooter outside. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
I'll go with the Pistons. I believe they are the only team on your list that was a below-average team on either offense or defense. (Obviously offense). They were one dimensional. As a result on any given night, they could clamp down and hold their opponents to below 70 or be blown out by 20 points themselves.
Weren't they considered one of the greatest defensive teams ever? And they were an Horry three pointer away from repeating as champions against the Spurs the year after. Plus they had four all-stars (Billups, Hamilton, Wallace x 2), plus Tayshaun Prince who was an all-star caliber player.
Sure, they were a great defensive team. But all the teams on this list were very good too.
The Pistons were a 54-win team, second in the east, and then they went 16-8 in the playoffs. The next year they were a 54-win team, which was second in the east, and went 15-10 in the playoffs. Their point differential in their ring year was 6.8.
All that is a good, but not spell-binding. They were a dominant defense, but not a dominant team.
Sure, they had four guys on their team who made all-star teams. But that isn't unusual. The Heat had four guys who made an all-star team within three years of their winning a ring.
Heck the Mavericks had 6 guys on their roster who made an all-star team.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31788 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:55 am Post subject:
Regarding discussion here about that Pistons team, just to play Devil's advocate, they did advance to back-to-back NBA Finals, winning one, and the loss was a 7-game loss to a Spurs team that has won 5 titles in the past 20 years or so. They also made 6 consecutive East finals as part of that run, so it's not like they were some fluke team.
I actually voted for the '19 Raptors because THAT is a fluke imo, even though they had a star have a dream run in Kawhi. They got a band together for what was always likely to be one run, and they pulled off the impossible, what with a Game 7 bouncing shot over the Sixers for a win in the East semis, and then had the incredibly good fortune of facing a completely decimated Warriors team. Hell, they almost blew Game 6 with just Steph and Draymond left. There is no doubt in my mind that the Warriors would have won Game 7 if Klay had not gotten injured. Add Durant to that mix and the Warriors win that series in no more than 6 games and possibly 5.
Regarding discussion here about that Pistons team, just to play Devil's advocate, they did advance to back-to-back NBA Finals, winning one, and the loss was a 7-game loss to a Spurs team that has won 5 titles in the past 20 years or so. They also made 6 consecutive East finals as part of that run, so it's not like they were some fluke team.
I actually voted for the '19 Raptors because THAT is a fluke imo, even though they had a star have a dream run in Kawhi. They got a band together for what was always likely to be one run, and they pulled off the impossible, what with a Game 7 bouncing shot over the Sixers for a win in the East semis, and then had the incredibly good fortune of facing a completely decimated Warriors team. Hell, they almost blew Game 6 with just Steph and Draymond left. There is no doubt in my mind that the Warriors would have won Game 7 if Klay had not gotten injured. Add Durant to that mix and the Warriors win that series in no more than 6 games and possibly 5.
During that era, making the East finals was not a grand accomplishment.
I can see the argument for the Raptors, but I think we need some distance in order to evaluate that team. It's too soon now.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31788 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Regarding discussion here about that Pistons team, just to play Devil's advocate, they did advance to back-to-back NBA Finals, winning one, and the loss was a 7-game loss to a Spurs team that has won 5 titles in the past 20 years or so. They also made 6 consecutive East finals as part of that run, so it's not like they were some fluke team.
I actually voted for the '19 Raptors because THAT is a fluke imo, even though they had a star have a dream run in Kawhi. They got a band together for what was always likely to be one run, and they pulled off the impossible, what with a Game 7 bouncing shot over the Sixers for a win in the East semis, and then had the incredibly good fortune of facing a completely decimated Warriors team. Hell, they almost blew Game 6 with just Steph and Draymond left. There is no doubt in my mind that the Warriors would have won Game 7 if Klay had not gotten injured. Add Durant to that mix and the Warriors win that series in no more than 6 games and possibly 5.
During that era, making the East finals was not a grand accomplishment.
I can see the argument for the Raptors, but I think we need some distance in order to evaluate that team. It's too soon now.
I get that it was a watered-down East. Still, when you do it for that many years in a row, I think it absolutely shows that your team is legit. And in back-to-back years against the Lakers and Spurs--dynastic franchises, really--they won 7 out of 12 NBA Finals games. I realize that they didn't have a true star player but the team just played well together.
I also think that because this is a Lakers forum we tend to look down on the 2004 Pistons. That being said, that team while it was bandied around that they were a bunch of castoffs that managed to put again a 2 year run at a title, winning against us.....they did have some players who turned out to be all stars. I also think that because that iteration of Pistons didn't play very exciting basketball which might also account for some terrible ratings in the Finals.
A Robert Horry three-pointer kept the 05 Pistons from going up 3-2 on the Spurs in the Finals. And even with that shot, the Pistons won game 6, had the lead at halftime in game 7 and were tied after the third quarter. San Antonio barely beat them thanks to Robert Horry and one good quarter in game 7.
I think the Malone injury in 04 was huge but even with a healthy Malone I’m not sure who wins that series. Malone played a lot of minutes in the first 2 games (when he was injured) and Detroit still outplayed the Lakers in those games. But that Laker team was way too complacent and didn’t take the Pistons seriously. Even listening to an interview with Kobe and Shaq around a year ago, I got the impression they still didn’t think much of those Detroit teams. That’s a horrible attitude to have going into the NBA Finals. Phil Jackson said he was really worried about the Pistons. Gary Payton was garbage in that series and so was the bench.
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