Lakers’ New Young Core
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Kuz has become a bit overrated, but to call him a "back-end rotation player than future core contributor" is asinine.

He may not be a 2 way all around player, but he will still be at worst, a 17-20ppg level scorer. That isn't a back-end rotation player.


Yeah,.. we all know I’m not a huge Kuz guy, but he’s absolutely a baller. He’s got his limitations as a player, but a guy who doesn’t necessarily have to have the ball to be effective as a scorer and can blow up and give you 40 on any given night is much more than an end of rotation player. Imo, it’s on the coaching staff to recognize his limitations and put him in positions to succeed instead of fail.


I can agree that our youth movement is pretty much non-existent simply b/c we are in contention mode now.

But the way they analyzed Kuz is completely wrong and it's fair to call that out. I'm intrigued however to see how THT plays this year. I know Mike [ at ] LG was big on him.


I look at it as a different development objective. A classic youth movement is when you’re trying to build the top end of your team with high draft picks. I think we’re in more of a Spurs mode where we’re looking to develop cost controlled role players so we can manage our budget while spending handsomely at the top of the roster.

If you can pipeline guys in the eight to ten spots in your rotation, you can use resources to maximize elsewhere.

Handy, Penberthy, our SBL feeder system all make that a strength imo.


Kuz is still cost controlled for a few years and a BARGAIN at his price given his production. Not sure how much impact, if any THT/Baby Giannis/Norvell will have but Kuz is easily our best young piece right now who is probably going to be our 6th man.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers’ New Young Core

pio2u wrote:
Lakers’ Young Core Among Worst in NBA After Trades Says Analyst
Thoughts ...... "yes, no, maybe"


Quote:
Zach Cram of The Ringer analyzed the “young cores” of every team in the league, meaning that he filtered out rosters to just include players under 24-years-old. He determined that Los Angeles has the No. 26 young core in the NBA.


*Kostas Antetokounmpo - 21
*Talen Horton-Tucker - 18
*Kyle Kuzma - 24
*Zach Norvell - 21


Quote:
#26. Los Angeles Lakers
WAR: 6.0 | Best Under-25 Player: Kyle Kuzma (4.0)

The CARMELO system doesn’t love Kuzma, the only young Laker of note after L.A.’s trade for Anthony Davis and subsequent trade to clear cap space.
The Lakers do love Kuzma—they refused to include him in the Davis deal—but in two seasons thus far, he’s profiled as an inefficient scorer and poor defender.
At least for now, that combination pushes him closer to a back-end rotation player than future core contributor.


* https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/23/20703286/nba-young-core-rankings

* https://heavy.com/sports/2019/07/lakers-young-core-worst-trades-the-ringer/



People are getting hung up over the phrase "young core."

This article is nothing more than a list of teams based on the quality of players they have who are 25 or younger.

Make the arbitrary cutoff 26 instead of 25, and AD is on our list and we jump up.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers’ New Young Core

activeverb wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Lakers’ Young Core Among Worst in NBA After Trades Says Analyst
Thoughts ...... "yes, no, maybe"


Quote:
Zach Cram of The Ringer analyzed the “young cores” of every team in the league, meaning that he filtered out rosters to just include players under 24-years-old. He determined that Los Angeles has the No. 26 young core in the NBA.


*Kostas Antetokounmpo - 21
*Talen Horton-Tucker - 18
*Kyle Kuzma - 24
*Zach Norvell - 21


Quote:
#26. Los Angeles Lakers
WAR: 6.0 | Best Under-25 Player: Kyle Kuzma (4.0)

The CARMELO system doesn’t love Kuzma, the only young Laker of note after L.A.’s trade for Anthony Davis and subsequent trade to clear cap space.
The Lakers do love Kuzma—they refused to include him in the Davis deal—but in two seasons thus far, he’s profiled as an inefficient scorer and poor defender.
At least for now, that combination pushes him closer to a back-end rotation player than future core contributor.


* https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/23/20703286/nba-young-core-rankings

* https://heavy.com/sports/2019/07/lakers-young-core-worst-trades-the-ringer/



People are getting hung up over the phrase "young core."

This article is nothing more than a list of teams based on the quality of players they have who are 25 or younger.

Make the arbitrary cutoff 26 instead of 25, and AD is on our list and we jump up.


Agree just change the Narrative to still in there prime the next couple of years and we would jump up.

AD, DC, Kuz, Bradley, KCP, Cook, Daniel, Caruso, THT, Norvell
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Dont need for a young core when you have potentially 2 and half super stars.
But having 1 or 2 young guys with all star potential is a plus.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers’ New Young Core

pio2u wrote:

*Kostas Antetokounmpo - 21
*Talen Horton-Tucker - 18
*Kyle Kuzma - 24
*Zach Norvell - 21




THT has $2.4M guaranteed over two years.

Those other guys have $79,568 guaranteed this upcoming season.

It is not correct to lump Talen with those other guys which are G League hopefuls that can be cut at any minute.

THT would only be cut to make a roster spot for a needed veteran contributor.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

tkLAKERS wrote:
pio2u wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think Kuz has become a bit overrated, but to call him a "back-end rotation player than future core contributor" is asinine.

He may not be a 2 way all around player, but he will still be at worst, a 17-20ppg level scorer. That isn't a back-end rotation player.


I agree; that assessment of Kuzma is quite harsh and IMO off target.


This is because Kuzma is still a Laker. The minute he ends up on another team, he will instantly become a near all-star level player on the cusp of stardom.


Kuzma can be a 2 way. He just needs some help on where to position his body and learn the other players’ moves.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject:

We went from having a young core to half a young core after losing Russell/Clarkson/Randle to now just having Kuzma and three random guys.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
If you can pipeline guys in the eight to ten spots in your rotation, you can use resources to maximize elsewhere. Handy, Penberthy, our SBL feeder system all make that a strength imo.


Kuz is still cost controlled for a few years and a BARGAIN at his price given his production. Not sure how much impact, if any THT/Baby Giannis/Norvell will have but Kuz is easily our best young piece right now who is probably going to be our 6th man.


Kuz still has some pretty big holes in his game. He's super talented, but he has a lot to prove if he wants to be in the front six or seven players on a contender. Hopefully he's doing the hungry and humble thing this summer.

I'm really encouraged to see the team investing in player development. Jesse and Joey have set up a good feeder system. Even with the draft capital we've traded, we still have 1st round picks three of the next five years. Handy, Penberthy, and the support staff are going to improve guys. We have a deep enough team that we don't need the young players to produce right away. It feels very Spurs-like. This is one of the "margin" areas where we can work an advantage if we play to our strengths.

I would also argue Caruso is about to show we have developed him as a quality back of the rotation player. I'd target 20-21 for THT and Kostas to start getting small minutes. It does feel like we're short one prospect. Would have loved to keep Bonga and let Handy develop him.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject:

with how frequent players have jumped shipped these days I dont see much value in having young cores because chances are a number of them will be long gone before they reach their peak.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
with how frequent players have jumped shipped these days I dont see much value in having young cores because chances are a number of them will be long gone before they reach their peak.


Unfortunately that's the Lakers current management style. I hate it.

I think Jerry West was the opposite of that. Really grew a team in the 90s. Has young veterans on his current one... but got a lot out of SGA, Harrell, and Shamet. Heard Robinson is doing better too.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject:

Won’t Get Fooled Again...

Meet the New Core,
Same as the Old Core..
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
and don't forget alex the pope


Quote:
Zach Cram of The Ringer analyzed the “young cores” of every team in the league, meaning that he filtered out rosters to just include players under 24-years-old. He determined that Los Angeles has the No. 26 young core in the NBA.


AC is 25, KCP, QC & Ad are 26 years-old.


Kuzma is 24
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
with how frequent players have jumped shipped these days I dont see much value in having young cores because chances are a number of them will be long gone before they reach their peak.


Unfortunately that's the Lakers current management style. I hate it.

I think Jerry West was the opposite of that. Really grew a team in the 90s. Has young veterans on his current one... but got a lot out of SGA, Harrell, and Shamet. Heard Robinson is doing better too.

im not saying to disregard your young players and building through the draft... theres definitely a time and place for that. I'm just saying that young core rankings like this is definitely no where near an accurate barometer of what teams are positioned 5 years out.
For example the Celtics were praised nonstop the last few seasons as "Thee" team of the future and that evaporated in a single offseason.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
with how frequent players have jumped shipped these days I dont see much value in having young cores because chances are a number of them will be long gone before they reach their peak.


Unfortunately that's the Lakers current management style. I hate it.

I think Jerry West was the opposite of that. Really grew a team in the 90s. Has young veterans on his current one... but got a lot out of SGA, Harrell, and Shamet. Heard Robinson is doing better too.

im not saying to disregard your young players and building through the draft... theres definitely a time and place for that. I'm just saying that young core rankings like this is definitely no where near an accurate barometer of what teams are positioned 5 years out.
For example the Celtics were praised nonstop the last few seasons as "Thee" team of the future and that evaporated in a single offseason.


I think team dynamics played a part. I'm not surprised when Coach Stevens looked like a genius when he had a young team and they all listened to what he said and executed. They were successful.

Then they brought in Kyrie, who broke the mold and broke the offense. No wonder why BOS had bad chemistry. The young core of players listening to their coach was IMHO a better team and equally as successful as BOS with Kyrie Irving.

I don't blame them.

But LAL never got a shot. The young core was never healthy, and I can't help but imagine if they were, they're a playoff team 2 years ago...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers’ New Young Core

activeverb wrote:




People are getting hung up over the phrase "young core."

This article is nothing more than a list of teams based on the quality of players they have who are 25 or younger.

Make the arbitrary cutoff 26 instead of 25, and AD is on our list and we jump up.


Pretty much. We have one of the best young players in the world in AD.

Plus AC is in my young core even if he looks 42.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject:

The key with Kuz is that he's our 4th option. If he was our best player he wouldn't get hyped as much. But not many teams have a scorer like him as a 4th option.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject:

The term 'young core' is irrelevant to the Lakers at the moment. I liked having a young core with upside, but it's not hard to understand what the Lakers are trying to do here. I agree for a 4th option Kuzma's very good, for a player of any age. And unless proven otherwise this season, I've seen enough from Alex Caruso on both sides of the court to say he's a young talent worth keeping an eye on.

That's our 'young core.' Kuz, AC, a second round pick, and camp fodder.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:44 am    Post subject:

i wish we had a crystal ball and skipped ahead about 3-4 years. what will ball, ingram, DLo look like?

more curious about ball and ingram. i think we'll just see a more refined DLo doing basically what he already does.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:51 am    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
i wish we had a crystal ball and skipped ahead about 3-4 years. what will ball, ingram, DLo look like?

more curious about ball and ingram. i think we'll just see a more refined DLo doing basically what he already does.


It'll also be interesting once Zo/BI go from rookie deals to being paid $20m+ a year too. The expectation knives will sharpen.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
with how frequent players have jumped shipped these days I dont see much value in having young cores because chances are a number of them will be long gone before they reach their peak.


Unfortunately that's the Lakers current management style. I hate it.

I think Jerry West was the opposite of that. Really grew a team in the 90s. Has young veterans on his current one... but got a lot out of SGA, Harrell, and Shamet. Heard Robinson is doing better too.


And pretty much traded them all away.

Vlade (1989) - traded for Kobe
Elden Campbell (1990) - traded for Glen Rice
Anthony Peeler (1992) - traded to make room for Shaq
George Lynch (1993) - traded to make room for Shaq
Nick Van Exel (1993) - traded for salary reasons/being a malcontent
Eddie Jones (1994) - traded for Glen Rice
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
i wish we had a crystal ball and skipped ahead about 3-4 years. what will ball, ingram, DLo look like?

more curious about ball and ingram. i think we'll just see a more refined DLo doing basically what he already does.


Immaterial:

If we win a ring and those guys become perennial All-stars, trading them was a good move.

If we win multiple rings and those guys become Hall of Famers, trading them was a good move.

If we win nothing and those guys become perennial All-stars, trading them was a mistake.

If we win nothing and BI's injury is career ending, while Zo never figures out his shooting, trading them was a good move.

It's a continuum.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject:

All them kids are up for major pay days soon.

BI is a RFA next summer.
Lonzo the year after.

Really big year for both if they want to get $100m+ extensions.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject:

Brandon will just keep plugging away. when and if his body fills out, he will be really good. he's just too damn thin to do what he wants on the court right now.

Ball is the interesting one... he HAS to get his head out of his rear and, you know... play to his last name and BALL! he has the tools.

yinoma2001 wrote:
All them kids are up for major pay days soon.

BI is a RFA next summer.
Lonzo the year after.

Really big year for both if they want to get $100m+ extensions.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
Brandon will just keep plugging away. when and if his body fills out, he will be really good. he's just too damn thin to do what he wants on the court right now.

Ball is the interesting one... he HAS to get his head out of his rear and, you know... play to his last name and BALL! he has the tools.

yinoma2001 wrote:
All them kids are up for major pay days soon.

BI is a RFA next summer.
Lonzo the year after.

Really big year for both if they want to get $100m+ extensions.


Right. Simmons/Murray got $170m deals. When these guys start making that kind of coin, the expectations go from "when/if" to "now."
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
The key with Kuz is that he's our 4th option. If he was our best player he wouldn't get hyped as much. But not many teams have a scorer like him as a 4th option.


Only we don’t know what type of a scorer he will be as a 4th option. He has previously been a good one-way player on bad teams.
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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