8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: 8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes

I had a 4/96 theory when we had DLO/JC/Lou/Swaggy. Luke basically tried to divide up 96 guard minutes with 4 players, and it wasn't ideal (especially when we had 2 young guys who needed time).

I think the great lament of your 2019-20 Lakers is the roster imbalance put into place with having 8 guards/96 guard minutes. Granted, Green can play some "SF" minutes, but his best position is at "SG."

We have:

PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT

7 of these players were signed as FAs, and THT probably spends most of his time in the GLeague.

Meanwhile, we have only LBJ slotted as a true "SF" (Dudley can play some but shouldn't be counted on for heavy minutes).

Then at center, we have just JAV.

I think signing Boogie at 3.5m was a worthwhile risk (though originally WOJ reported it as a vet's minimum, which would have been great b/c we could have used that 3.5m on another guard ).

But we have a terribly imbalanced team that is guard heavy, and only has one really premium player (Green). I don't see many of them being big trade chips either come 12/15. And we still have only 1 roster spot to fill our SF-size wing defender AND backup center roles. What can be done and why was this team constructed like this?

As Kikanga pointed out, the Cavs in LBJ's last year did the same thing with so many guards and less big men backups.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

At this point, I'd run about 7 lineups with minute distribution like this:

Code:

        C           PF          SF          SG          PG                48
        J McGee     A Davis     L James     D Green     A Bradley         12
        FA Center   A Davis     K Kuzma     A Caruso    R Rondo            6
        J McGee     K Kuzma     L James     Daniels/CookA Caruso           6
        J McGee     J Dudley    K Kuzma     KCP         A Bradley          6
        FA Center   K Kuzma     L James     D Green     A Caruso           6
        A Davis     J Dudley    D Green     KCP         R Rondo            6
        A Davis     L James     K Kuzma     A Caruso    Daniels/Cook       6


Code:

                    C      PF      SF      SG      PG   Total
L James              0       6      24       0       0      30
A Davis             12      18       0       0       0      30
K Kuzma              0      12      18       0       0      30
D Green              0       0       6      18       0      24
J McGee             24       0       0       0       0      24
A Caruso             0       0       0      12      12      24
A Bradley            0       0       0       0      18      18
KCP                  0       0       0      12       0      12
FA Center           12       0       0       0       0      12
Daniels/Cook         0       0       0       6       6      12
R Rondo              0       0       0       0      12      12
J Dudley             0      12       0       0       0      12


I don't see any way around playing AD at some center minutes.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

Quote:
PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT


Sadly I see Caruso being the biggest casualty here, when I think he has a case for starting. He doesn't have the name equity of Rondo, and Cook has the "ring."

I don't expect Troy to play much either. KCP's 8m, and the opportunity cost of that...yikes.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

Expect a lot of KCP at the 3 lineups.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: 8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes

yinoma2001 wrote:
I had a 4/96 theory when we had DLO/JC/Lou/Swaggy. Luke basically tried to divide up 96 guard minutes with 4 players, and it wasn't ideal (especially when we had 2 young guys who needed time).

I think the great lament of your 2019-20 Lakers is the roster imbalance put into place with having 8 guards/96 guard minutes. Granted, Green can play some "SF" minutes, but his best position is at "SG."

We have:

PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT

7 of these players were signed as FAs, and THT probably spends most of his time in the GLeague.

Meanwhile, we have only LBJ slotted as a true "SF" (Dudley can play some but shouldn't be counted on for heavy minutes).

Then at center, we have just JAV.

I think signing Boogie at 3.5m was a worthwhile risk (though originally WOJ reported it as a vet's minimum, which would have been great b/c we could have used that 3.5m on another guard ).

But we have a terribly imbalanced team that is guard heavy, and only has one really premium player (Green). I don't see many of them being big trade chips either come 12/15. And we still have only 1 roster spot to fill our SF-size wing defender AND backup center roles. What can be done and why was this team constructed like this?

As Kikanga pointed out, the Cavs in LBJ's last year did the same thing with so many guards and less big men backups.

Green will clearly have to play heavy SF minutes. Rondo and Daniels shouldn't be in the rotation, but injuries happen.

I'd pare it down to Green/KCP/Caruso/Bradley (if he bounces back) with KCP starting as the a PG defender/off-ball scorer and Caruso first off the bench as 2nd unit general.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject:

maybe I've underestimated Cook's clout...and we all hope Rondo is outplayed. And Daniels has always been in/out rotations. If Caruso plays well I think he keeps minutes and has a chance to get starter minutes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject:

Yeah, it should be interesting b/c it seems on paper, moving AD to C, LBJ to PF, and Green to SF gives us the most versatility.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject:

Let’s hope a few things happen ( I’m a huge Avery bradley fan)

Avery plays a ton of minutes

Rondo does not

Kcp is the spring kcp of last year. When the games didn’t matter he literally was an anti-tank missile

Caruso gets burn

Daniels and Cook shoot at their career averages in limited minutes

Danny Green doesn’t all of sudden become “old”. (Happens to the best of them let alone role players

Green and Bradley need to share the floor a TON for us to have any shot at getting stops
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject:

SGVL1 wrote:
Let’s hope a few things happen ( I’m a huge Avery bradley fan)

Avery plays a ton of minutes

Rondo does not

Kcp is the spring kcp of last year. When the games didn’t matter he literally was an anti-tank missile

Caruso gets burn

Daniels and Cook shoot at their career averages in limited minutes

Danny Green doesn’t all of sudden become “old”. (Happens to the best of them let alone role players

Green and Bradley need to share the floor a TON for us to have any shot at getting stops


Even if all these optimistic benchmarks are reached, it still points to a flawed approach to team building. What we need are centers, and wing defenders who can guard SG/SF. Green is really the only one out of our 8 guards who can do that right now. That's a flaw in the Death Star to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: 8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes

yinoma2001 wrote:
I had a 4/96 theory when we had DLO/JC/Lou/Swaggy. Luke basically tried to divide up 96 guard minutes with 4 players, and it wasn't ideal (especially when we had 2 young guys who needed time).

I think the great lament of your 2019-20 Lakers is the roster imbalance put into place with having 8 guards/96 guard minutes. Granted, Green can play some "SF" minutes, but his best position is at "SG."

We have:

PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT

7 of these players were signed as FAs, and THT probably spends most of his time in the GLeague.

Meanwhile, we have only LBJ slotted as a true "SF" (Dudley can play some but shouldn't be counted on for heavy minutes).

Then at center, we have just JAV.

I think signing Boogie at 3.5m was a worthwhile risk (though originally WOJ reported it as a vet's minimum, which would have been great b/c we could have used that 3.5m on another guard ).

But we have a terribly imbalanced team that is guard heavy, and only has one really premium player (Green). I don't see many of them being big trade chips either come 12/15. And we still have only 1 roster spot to fill our SF-size wing defender AND backup center roles. What can be done and why was this team constructed like this?

As Kikanga pointed out, the Cavs in LBJ's last year did the same thing with so many guards and less big men backups.


Yes, would have to agree that there are too many guards. And not enough big players. Think Pelinka was just trying to fill holes after Kawhi rejection. And didn't have time to look at big picture.
And he couldn't have figured that Cousins would tear ACL.
And no players to trade for backup C.

But perhaps could move KCP to play small forwards.
And Cook or Caruso to SG.
But a backup center is needed big time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject:

Quote:
But perhaps could move KCP to play small forwards.
And Cook or Caruso to SG.


KCP can't guard even big "SGs" like DRoz. He isn't ideal to defend SFs and actually would do better defending PGs who like to run off screens.

Cook cannot defend SGs, or any guards for the matter.

We simply are banking too much on LBJ absorbing all the minutes at SF.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject:

I'm not concerned at all about carrying eight "small guards". Healthy, LeBron will be most likely played over 33 minutes per outing and he's just a big powerful guard on offense. He can defend most wings. We can afford using two smaller guys alongside him whenever he's on the floor, whether we want to label them SFs or SGs.

No worries about the roster size until/unless LeBron has a health problem (again), something taking him off the court for any length of time. Of course, when that happens, we're just a middling squad at best anyway. The gamble's been made.

All that said, the Lakers don't have a roster with good odds of running deep into the post-season. Someone always gets hurt. The Lakers will be OK, not great and you know, being OK is a helluva lot better than they've been for a long time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:40 pm    Post subject:

When injuries happen to our smalls, I'll be glad we still have shooting depth. We just can't have LeBron and AD missing more that 20 games combined between them.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Just as long as Rondo gets 0 of those 96 minutes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject:

off the bat I'd say Rondo should be a DNP assistant coach and Green should shift down to SF as much as possible. I also would assume KCP gets minutes at SF.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject:

Playing guys out of position isn’t an optimal plan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes

yinoma2001 wrote:
I had a 4/96 theory when we had DLO/JC/Lou/Swaggy. Luke basically tried to divide up 96 guard minutes with 4 players, and it wasn't ideal (especially when we had 2 young guys who needed time).

I think the great lament of your 2019-20 Lakers is the roster imbalance put into place with having 8 guards/96 guard minutes. Granted, Green can play some "SF" minutes, but his best position is at "SG."

We have:

PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT

7 of these players were signed as FAs, and THT probably spends most of his time in the GLeague.

Meanwhile, we have only LBJ slotted as a true "SF" (Dudley can play some but shouldn't be counted on for heavy minutes).

Then at center, we have just JAV.

I think signing Boogie at 3.5m was a worthwhile risk (though originally WOJ reported it as a vet's minimum, which would have been great b/c we could have used that 3.5m on another guard ).

But we have a terribly imbalanced team that is guard heavy, and only has one really premium player (Green). I don't see many of them being big trade chips either come 12/15. And we still have only 1 roster spot to fill our SF-size wing defender AND backup center roles. What can be done and why was this team constructed like this?

As Kikanga pointed out, the Cavs in LBJ's last year did the same thing with so many guards and less big men backups.


If you classify LBJ as a guard, it's 144 minutes for 8 players

LBJ/Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook/Green/KCP/Daniels

THT is a SF to me and he will not get minutes anyway.

LBJ gets most PG minutes offensively but defends SFs. Let's assume he averages 35 mpg as he did last season and in 2015-16 when he won his latest champion. That leaves 109 minutes for 7 guards, or 13 minutes for whoever replaces him to defend SFs.

I think Green can fill that role. If necessary, Kuzma. As to the 109 minutes, one or two among the 7 guards will not get PT. There are always players at the end of bench.

If the team gets a DPE for Counsins, wouldn't they get an extra roster spot?15th spot for a center and 16th for a forward later.


Last edited by LaxT on Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
When injuries happen to our smalls, I'll be glad we still have shooting depth. We just can't have LeBron and AD missing more that 20 games combined between them.


I hope the two of them sit out 20 games combined, if not more. Load management. Regular season record would take a hit, but better for the playoffs. Kawhi sat out 22 games last season. I am not sure we have the depth to do that though.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
epak wrote:
When injuries happen to our smalls, I'll be glad we still have shooting depth. We just can't have LeBron and AD missing more that 20 games combined between them.


I hope the two of them sit out 20 games combined, if not more. Load management. Regular season record would take a hit, but better for the playoffs. Kawhi sat out 22 games last season. I am not sure we have the depth to do that though.


20 games combined, if not more?? Lol
God, the modern game blows
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
LaxT wrote:
epak wrote:
When injuries happen to our smalls, I'll be glad we still have shooting depth. We just can't have LeBron and AD missing more that 20 games combined between them.


I hope the two of them sit out 20 games combined, if not more. Load management. Regular season record would take a hit, but better for the playoffs. Kawhi sat out 22 games last season. I am not sure we have the depth to do that though.


20 games combined, if not more?? Lol
God, the modern game blows


LBJ averaged 73 games in 2014-17 for the Cavs and won a ring in '16. He played 82 games and 3025 minutes, the most since 2011, in 2017-18, and right after that, he had his worst injury and season in career. Yeah, it's better to rest a 35 year old when he is healthy than injured.

Davis averaged 66 games in his career; never more than 75 games in a season. He would appreciate timely rest too.

If this is what modern teams do, the Lakers better catch up.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: 8 Guards/96 Guard Minutes

LaxT wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I had a 4/96 theory when we had DLO/JC/Lou/Swaggy. Luke basically tried to divide up 96 guard minutes with 4 players, and it wasn't ideal (especially when we had 2 young guys who needed time).

I think the great lament of your 2019-20 Lakers is the roster imbalance put into place with having 8 guards/96 guard minutes. Granted, Green can play some "SF" minutes, but his best position is at "SG."

We have:

PG: Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook
SG: Green/KCP/Daniels/THT

7 of these players were signed as FAs, and THT probably spends most of his time in the GLeague.

Meanwhile, we have only LBJ slotted as a true "SF" (Dudley can play some but shouldn't be counted on for heavy minutes).

Then at center, we have just JAV.

I think signing Boogie at 3.5m was a worthwhile risk (though originally WOJ reported it as a vet's minimum, which would have been great b/c we could have used that 3.5m on another guard ).

But we have a terribly imbalanced team that is guard heavy, and only has one really premium player (Green). I don't see many of them being big trade chips either come 12/15. And we still have only 1 roster spot to fill our SF-size wing defender AND backup center roles. What can be done and why was this team constructed like this?

As Kikanga pointed out, the Cavs in LBJ's last year did the same thing with so many guards and less big men backups.


If you classify LBJ as a guard, it's 144 minutes for 8 players

LBJ/Bradley/Caruso/Rondo/Cook/Green/KCP/Daniels

THT is a SF to me and he will not get minutes anyway.

LBJ gets most PG minutes offensively but defends SFs. Let's assume he averages 35 mpg as he did last season and in 2015-16 when he won his latest champion. That leaves 109 minutes for 7 guards, or 13 minutes for whoever replaces him to defend SFs.

I think Green can fill that role. If necessary, Kuzma. As to the 109 minutes, one or two among the 7 guards will not get PT. There are always players at the end of bench.

If the team gets a DPE for Counsins, wouldn't they get an extra roster spot?15th spot for a center and 16th for a forward later.



79. What roster size limits exist? What is the Inactive List? What is Injured Reserve? Do any other such lists exist?

Quote:

Normally an NBA team can have a maximum of 15 players on its roster during a season (and up to 201 during the offseason, starting on the day after the team's season ends). A team normally has 12 or 13 players on its Active List, who are eligible to play in games, and can have as few as 11 for up to two weeks at a time. Any remaining players must be on the team's Inactive List, and are ineligible to play in games. Teams temporarily can have four players on their Inactive List (bringing their roster size to 16) with league approval in the event of a hardship2.



2 A hardship can be deemed to exist when a team has four players who are sick or injured and have missed at least three regular season games, and will continue to be unable to play. If a hardship is granted, the hardship ends when one of the sick or injured players is physically able to resume playing. The team must then release player(s) to get back to the roster limit, although teams have the option to retain the hardship player and release a different player to get back to the limit.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject:

Daniels is the most susceptible to being cut to make room for a backup center/Iggy (if he is waived).

Right now I would sign the backup center, and IF IGGY is released then consider cutting Daniels. He'll still get his full contract paid so he will be fine as he will collect double when he joins another team.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:34 am    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
LaxT wrote:
epak wrote:
When injuries happen to our smalls, I'll be glad we still have shooting depth. We just can't have LeBron and AD missing more that 20 games combined between them.


I hope the two of them sit out 20 games combined, if not more. Load management. Regular season record would take a hit, but better for the playoffs. Kawhi sat out 22 games last season. I am not sure we have the depth to do that though.


20 games combined, if not more?? Lol
God, the modern game blows


LBJ averaged 73 games in 2014-17 for the Cavs and won a ring in '16. He played 82 games and 3025 minutes, the most since 2011, in 2017-18, and right after that, he had his worst injury and season in career. Yeah, it's better to rest a 35 year old when he is healthy than injured.

Davis averaged 66 games in his career; never more than 75 games in a season. He would appreciate timely rest too.

If this is what modern teams do, the Lakers better catch up.


Eh, still blows
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject:

Sounds like a Liam Neeson movie
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Daniels is the most susceptible to being cut to make room for a backup center/Iggy (if he is waived).

Right now I would sign the backup center, and IF IGGY is released then consider cutting Daniels. He'll still get his full contract paid so he will be fine as he will collect double when he joins another team.


I would cut Cousins and keep a guy who can actually play.
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