Andrew Luck retiring from NFL
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:11 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
There are a ton of apples to oranges analogies popping up here that really don't equate at all to the Luck situation.

Bottomline, Luck chose to retire because it was what was best for his physical well being as he viewed it as the only person who is really in the appropriate position to view it.

Paul George choosing the Clippers over the Lakers doesn't even remotely translate to Luck's choice. And LeBron randomly just retiring out of nowhere without Luck's injury history is just as offbase.

And to expand on that, what fans "expect" is often completely contrary to what is fair for them to expect in the context. And in context, there is no comparison to fans reacting negatively to Paul George's decision and the negative reaction to Luck's decision - which was based on health concerns.


Those analogies were raised because the discussion had shifted on whether fans who reacted negatively were justified in doing so. And some folks saying that those fans should respect Luck's decision to do what he felt was in his best interest. Some even said it was refreshing.

It's a very thoughtful platitude, but it's not based in reality IMO. How you react to something like this, is going to depend on whether you have a vested interest in Luck and/or the Colts.

Anyway, I understand why the fans were upset. They had no warning. Came entirely out of left field for them at a time where a fan's excitement and optimism is at its highest. It's where all the fans say "if so and so can do this, we could win X games" where X is always overly optimistic. You see it here too. I think the reaction would have been completely different had he announced he WOULD retire. It softens the blow. Gives you time to say goodbye.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject:

2 things.....I think the media is going way overboard giving Luck the James Dean treatment. It is like they are giving him credit for things he "may" have accomplished in the future. I heard someone on ESPN radio claim that Luck would definitely have a Super Bowl ring during his career if he did not retire?!?!!? Maybe he should talk to Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Vinny Testaverde, etc. etc......all great QB's that never won a SuperBowl. Andrew Luck was a talented young QB, but as most young QB's was mostly unaccomplished, and there was no guarantees he accomplishes anything in the future.

Next, I think the guy can do what he wants in his life.....but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also. All these professional athletes speaking out against those fans....calling their actions disgusting is just them having to face reality and not liking it. Get over yourself.....you are adored and loved because you help the team win games. If you are unable to do that or choose not to do that, much if not all of that love and admiration will dissipate.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.



It was a pre-season game, Luck was injured. The fans had zero expectations of him playing in that game.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.



It was a pre-season game, Luck was injured. The fans had zero expectations of him playing in that game.


when I said pay to see that game was not related to expecting him to play in that game.....only that fans that support the team have the right to boo and cheer anyone they choose. As long as it is not personal attacks or making vulgar comments.....simple boos and cheers come with the territory.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


yeah, I got that fortune cookie one time also
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


yeah, I got that fortune cookie one time also


That's odd, I didn't get my royalty check.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


As you said, who is better equipped to determine what is more right for them, than the person themselves, yeah? Or nah?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


As you said, who is better equipped to determine what is more right for them, than the person themselves, yeah? Or nah?


That's grossly incongruous to what is being discussed in the statement you quoted . . . laughably and embarrassingly so.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject:

So which team has the best shot of signing him for the 2021 season?

I think he has Dolphins written all over him.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


As you said, who is better equipped to determine what is more right for them, than the person themselves, yeah? Or nah?


That's grossly incongruous to what is being discussed in the statement you quoted . . . laughably and embarrassingly so.


No it’s not. You just don’t seem to get it.

You said Luck is the “only” appropriate person to determine what is in Lucks best interests. If thats the case, then it should apply to all people.

Otherwise it is what I suspect it is. Code for a platitude that only applies when you agree with who it is applied to but can be said to be “incongruous” (or other similar term) when inconvenient.

Kind of like the one you pointed out yourself! Hope it makes sense now!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


As you said, who is better equipped to determine what is more right for them, than the person themselves, yeah? Or nah?


That's grossly incongruous to what is being discussed in the statement you quoted . . . laughably and embarrassingly so.


No it’s not. You just don’t seem to get it.

You said Luck is the “only” appropriate person to determine what is in Lucks best interests. If thats the case, then it should apply to all people.

Otherwise it is what I suspect it is. Code for a platitude that only applies when you agree with who it is applied to but can be said to be “incongruous” (or other similar term) when inconvenient.

Kind of like the one you pointed out yourself! Hope it makes sense now!


The difference is Luck made a decision based on what he knew about himself and what was best for him. Everyone else is reacting to what another person (Luck) chose to do.

I don't think there is an objectively right way to react to the news and I understand the fans are upset. But being upset with him and also seeing the rationality of his decision and respecting him as a person and what he did for the team should not be mutually exclusive.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
adkindo wrote:
.but I also think those fans that paid to see that game had the right to boo if they wanted to also.


Having the right to do something and something being the right thing to do are very different things.


As you said, who is better equipped to determine what is more right for them, than the person themselves, yeah? Or nah?


That's grossly incongruous to what is being discussed in the statement you quoted . . . laughably and embarrassingly so.


No it’s not. You just don’t seem to get it.

You said Luck is the “only” appropriate person to determine what is in Lucks best interests. If thats the case, then it should apply to all people.

Otherwise it is what I suspect it is. Code for a platitude that only applies when you agree with who it is applied to but can be said to be “incongruous” (or other similar term) when inconvenient.

Kind of like the one you pointed out yourself! Hope it makes sense now!


Clearly it is you who doesn't seem to be getting it.

Luck making a decision about his future regarding his personal health is not even remotely the same thing as people in the stands exercising their "right" to boo him and it is asinine to claim otherwise.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I am in agreement with you, totally. I'm going to now list a few injuries:

Sprained shoulder
Lacerated kidney (!!!)
Torn abdominal muscle
Torn rib cartilage
Concussion
Torn labrum
Calf strain/high ankle issue

Now, imagine that you had to take painkilling injections just to be able to play through some of these injuries, as Luck did with the torn rib cartilage and the shoulder pain before his actual shoulder surgery following the torn labrum. Imagine peeing blood, as he did after the lacerated kidney. Now imagine suffering all of these injuries in a 4-year span.

This is what happened with Andrew Luck.

Now, imagine that LeBron James suffered through these exact same injuries. If he chose to retire during training camp, everyone with a brain would understand it. LeBron has had just one major injury in his basketball life, so yeah, we'd be confused if he retired during training camp, seemingly without warning.


I'm not buying it. Like it or not, we are going to compare Andrew Luck to other football players. There are guys who come back from multiple ACLs, broken bones, and the like. A lot of us are going to read that list of injuries and conclude that Andrew Luck was too soft and mentally weak to make it as an NFL quarterback.

Would I want to suffer those injuries? Hell no. But I wouldn't want to play in the NFL, either, except maybe for the money. I'm way too soft for that bleep. Once I had made enough money, I'd get the hell out. That sounds just like Andrew Luck. It doesn't sound like the athletes we honor. And that's the point.


I can only speak for myself, but this isn't about honoring him. It's about people thinking it's OK to boo this guy, and it was a low-class thing to do. What he chose to do was perfectly logical, given all of the context, and understandable. Again, we aren't just talking about him calling it quits because he didn't want to go through injury rehab on the first major injury of his life. This man has been beaten up over a 4-year period, in multiple areas of his body. And yes, most guys probably would choose to keep going and play through it. Good for them, if that's what they want to do. Luck is choosing not to. Good for him. I guess he would prefer to have a chance to have a much higher quality of life from this point forward than to be $200-300MM richer but probably feel constant pain for the rest of his life after he retired.

Football is a violent game; I never had even a 1% interest in playing it competitively, despite playing basically every other sport imaginable and despite loving watching football. "Like getting into a car wreck every single Sunday of your life." In that context, when adding Luck's specific list of injuries he's suffered, in a short period of time, it's perfectly reasonable as to why he retired. Fans don't think like this. They weren't processing all of this at the time. They just see their team suffering a big blow, and so many of those fans who were there chose to take it out on him by booing. Chicken-bleep move, as far as I'm concerned.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject:

Except people seem to not factor in that he was on the cover of the season tickets package for the Colts, was interviewed by Peter King saying he was coming back about 15 days earlier, filmed a Direct TV commercial wearing a Colts uniform. We're told by the Colts he was coming back it would take a while and they never disclosed his injury or how he got it either. He also played in the Pro Bowl after the season ended then we found out about his shoulder.

Then out of the blue after season ticket sales are final he announces his retirement two weeks before the season began.

If he wanted to retire fine do it in Feb/March not two weeks before the season and after this dog/pony show. Plus they never have been transparent about the whole thing from jump.

If this had been Cam Newton who did this the reaction would be drastically different by the media and non Colts fans.

They booed not given him death threats, or destroy his property etc. I really doubt 31 other teams would have fans cool with this situation if it was their team.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
Except people seem to not factor in that he was on the cover of the season tickets package for the Colts, was interviewed by Peter King saying he was coming back about 15 days earlier, filmed a Direct TV commercial wearing a Colts uniform. We're told by the Colts he was coming back it would take a while and they never disclosed his injury or how he got it either. He also played in the Pro Bowl after the season ended then we found out about his shoulder.

Then out of the blue after season ticket sales are final he announces his retirement two weeks before the season began.

If he wanted to retire fine do it in Feb/March not two weeks before the season and after this dog/pony show. Plus they never have been transparent about the whole thing from jump.

If this had been Cam Newton who did this the reaction would be drastically different by the media and non Colts fans.

They booed not given him death threats, or destroy his property etc. I really doubt 31 other teams would have fans cool with this situation if it was their team.


You are absolutely, positively 100% correct about that.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
Except people seem to not factor in that he was on the cover of the season tickets package for the Colts, was interviewed by Peter King saying he was coming back about 15 days earlier, filmed a Direct TV commercial wearing a Colts uniform. We're told by the Colts he was coming back it would take a while and they never disclosed his injury or how he got it either. He also played in the Pro Bowl after the season ended then we found out about his shoulder.

Then out of the blue after season ticket sales are final he announces his retirement two weeks before the season began.

If he wanted to retire fine do it in Feb/March not two weeks before the season and after this dog/pony show. Plus they never have been transparent about the whole thing from jump.

If this had been Cam Newton who did this the reaction would be drastically different by the media and non Colts fans.

They booed not given him death threats, or destroy his property etc. I really doubt 31 other teams would have fans cool with this situation if it was their team.


You are absolutely, positively 100% correct about that.


Maybe for some people. But as far as I am concerned, any player, regardless of who they play for or their reputation, who says they are retiring to preserve their health after the injuries Luck has had has nothing but my support.

What they do is just for public entertainment. Athletes aren't soldiers going off to battle to preserve our safety and freedom. They don't owe anyone some commitment to give it their all to satisfy fans at the expense of their longterm health and welfare. And I don't believe for one second that Luck intended to defraud the fans by waiting to make the decision when he did.

And it's less about the booing for me and more about the reaction in the media and from the fans in the aftermath. Sure, I think it's a crap thing to boo the guy, but I get why they did it. But I also know the why is not the point nor is it an excuse. The piling on that people are doing is off-base and out of line. As is the idea that Luck owes it to people to go out there and give his all until he drops simply because he is reactively young because that's what "heroes" would do. And to dismiss the opinions of those who have actually been in the game in order to justify that unjustifiable criticism lacks merit.

(and I am not implying you have said otherwise - I'm simply speaking in general)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/ahammTNT/status/1166352527278977030
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
https://twitter.com/ahammTNT/status/1166352527278977030


I feel like I have seen other clips of that guy laying down awesome truth like that before.

And just to add to his point, those "fans" shown ripping off their jerseys in disgust?

They aren't really fans because they clearly don't give a crap about the person whose jersey they were wearing. They just viewed him as a commodity for their personal pleasure.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
https://twitter.com/ahammTNT/status/1166352527278977030


I feel like I have seen other clips of that guy laying down awesome truth like that before.

And just to add to his point, those "fans" shown ripping off their jerseys in disgust?

They aren't really fans because they clearly don't give a crap about the person whose jersey they were wearing. They just viewed him as a commodity for their personal pleasure.


By the same token many players don't give (bleep) about the fans either. They are just an ATM to give them money more money than those fans will ever see in a life time. Sure they pay a physical price but football is not among the most dangerous jobs and it pays a lot better than most.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
https://twitter.com/ahammTNT/status/1166352527278977030


I feel like I have seen other clips of that guy laying down awesome truth like that before.

And just to add to his point, those "fans" shown ripping off their jerseys in disgust?

They aren't really fans because they clearly don't give a crap about the person whose jersey they were wearing. They just viewed him as a commodity for their personal pleasure.


By the same token many players don't give (bleep) about the fans either. They are just an ATM to give them money more money than those fans will ever see in a life time. Sure they pay a physical price but football is not among the most dangerous jobs and it pays a lot better than most.


Very true. But tell me, what does that have to do with Luck? He’s the guy being criticized for leaving money on the table because he’s not enough of a sports “hero” to suck it up and put his health at further risk because that’s what the fans demand.

Sure, playing NFL football is not the most dangerous job in the world compared to others. And yes, it pays astronomically well compared to other careers. But there’s no doubt that the physical legacy of an NFL career has cost players their physical well being and even their life.

No player needs to compromise their well-being because idiotic sports fans have selfish expectations.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject:

^
In general, the life of an NFL player isn't very good. Same as a professional wrestler. You are subject to debilitating injuries and pain, and your lifespan is considerably shorter if you do it for long enough. And most players' careers are short, so it's not like they are filthy rich at the end of their careers. And we haven't even mentioned the dope that many of these players are on just to be able to play professional football, especially the bigger players/linemen. Nick Hardwick lost 90 pounds within one year after he was done playing. Do you think that whatever he had to do to maintain his weight during his playing career was healthy? How many years off his life will that cost him? That's what so many of these players have to ask themselves. Some might not have a choice, sadly, if they think their financial future depends on playing football for as long as they can. A guy like Luck is financially set. Calvin Johnson was, too. I totally understand why they did what they did.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:10 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I'm not buying it. Like it or not, we are going to compare Andrew Luck to other football players. There are guys who come back from multiple ACLs, broken bones, and the like. A lot of us are going to read that list of injuries and conclude that Andrew Luck was too soft and mentally weak to make it as an NFL quarterback.

Would I want to suffer those injuries? Hell no. But I wouldn't want to play in the NFL, either, except maybe for the money. I'm way too soft for that bleep. Once I had made enough money, I'd get the hell out. That sounds just like Andrew Luck. It doesn't sound like the athletes we honor. And that's the point.


I can only speak for myself, but this isn't about honoring him. It's about people thinking it's OK to boo this guy, and it was a low-class thing to do. What he chose to do was perfectly logical, given all of the context, and understandable. Again, we aren't just talking about him calling it quits because he didn't want to go through injury rehab on the first major injury of his life. This man has been beaten up over a 4-year period, in multiple areas of his body. And yes, most guys probably would choose to keep going and play through it. Good for them, if that's what they want to do. Luck is choosing not to. Good for him. I guess he would prefer to have a chance to have a much higher quality of life from this point forward than to be $200-300MM richer but probably feel constant pain for the rest of his life after he retired.

Football is a violent game; I never had even a 1% interest in playing it competitively, despite playing basically every other sport imaginable and despite loving watching football. "Like getting into a car wreck every single Sunday of your life." In that context, when adding Luck's specific list of injuries he's suffered, in a short period of time, it's perfectly reasonable as to why he retired. Fans don't think like this. They weren't processing all of this at the time. They just see their team suffering a big blow, and so many of those fans who were there chose to take it out on him by booing. Chicken-bleep move, as far as I'm concerned.


I just don't buy it. The only reason anyone gives a flip about Andrew Luck is that he was an NFL quarterback. Otherwise, he's just another generic person who matters only to his family and close friends. Just like the rest of us. If that was who he was, no one would give a flip that he quit his job because he wasn't happy.

He took on the mantle of an NFL quarterback. It gained him money, glory, celebrity, and more. It also means that he is subject to different expectations and different standards. He was supposed to be the face of the franchise, an icon, a leader of men, yada yada yada. He flunked the test. So if Colts fans want to boo him, I get it. If they want to burn his jerseys, I get it.

So you think this is a chicken-bleep move by the fans? Well, those fans spent their money to buy tickets, jerseys, and the like. Some portion of that money went into Andrew Luck's bank account. So Andrew Luck decided that he just didn't like playing football anymore and walked away two weeks before the season. Aww, poor widdle Andrew Luck got booed.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
https://twitter.com/ahammTNT/status/1166352527278977030


I feel like I have seen other clips of that guy laying down awesome truth like that before.

And just to add to his point, those "fans" shown ripping off their jerseys in disgust?

They aren't really fans because they clearly don't give a crap about the person whose jersey they were wearing. They just viewed him as a commodity for their personal pleasure.


By the same token many players don't give (bleep) about the fans either. They are just an ATM to give them money more money than those fans will ever see in a life time. Sure they pay a physical price but football is not among the most dangerous jobs and it pays a lot better than most.


Very true. But tell me, what does that have to do with Luck? He’s the guy being criticized for leaving money on the table because he’s not enough of a sports “hero” to suck it up and put his health at further risk because that’s what the fans demand.

Sure, playing NFL football is not the most dangerous job in the world compared to others. And yes, it pays astronomically well compared to other careers. But there’s no doubt that the physical legacy of an NFL career has cost players their physical well being and even their life.

No player needs to compromise their well-being because idiotic sports fans have selfish expectations.


Literally no one, fan or otherwise, is saying he should compromise his well being because of their expectations.

You’re making that conflation. Which I tried to convey to you earlier but thats like trying to get a mule to ... nevermind.

I think some folks have been out of the sports threads for so long they have forgotten that sports fans vent about everything as it relates to their team and this is been happening since the advent of team sports.

It doesn’t mean Luck should risk his life. Lol. It just means fans are pissed they spent their hard earned money on tickets, merchandise, TV coverage, whatever and now aren’t going to be getting the product they bargained for. I have a feeling that the fact it is Indy fans is playing some kind of role here.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I have a feeling that the fact it is Indy fans is playing some kind of role here.


Well, since you mention it . . . .

https://www.theonion.com/teary-andrew-luck-describes-fighting-through-searing-pa-1837583957
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