Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31910 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:45 pm Post subject:
QB's, especially the star QB's, can play deep into their 30's now, if not until 40+. Peter King correctly estimated that Andrew Luck probably could have made another $300MM if he still played QB at a high level through age 40. Think about the money he was willing to turn down, in both the short term and with his next contract or more. It just shows you how f'd up his body felt and how he felt he was truly compromising his lifespan if he continued. (He probably already has, to be honest.) People have no right to judge him. No one can know exactly how he feels. He has every right to retire whenever he wants to, on his own terms. Yes, even 2 weeks before the start of the season. He obviously had been thinking about it for a while, but you can't expect a guy to retire months ago if he wasn't sure about it. There was no sense of bitterness whatsoever from Reich, Irsay, or Ballard at the press conference they did.
Gottlieb and Dakich are tools. I may not agree with Steve Beuerlein's take, but at least he didn't frame it like a complete dolt. Gottlieb and Dakich did.
You’re right Stu. But I also understand why people (Indy fans not analysts) would be upset at him. Their team is not going to be very good now, many had spent their hard earned money on apparel and merchandise, and games or season tickets.
Does that mean he should have played? No. It just means it is understandable that they’d feel some sort of resentment.
If Lebron said you know what, I’ve had enough, and just retired tomorrow, I am pretty certain Laker fans would feel the same way.
QB's, especially the star QB's, can play deep into their 30's now, if not until 40+. Peter King correctly estimated that Andrew Luck probably could have made another $300MM if he still played QB at a high level through age 40. Think about the money he was willing to turn down, in both the short term and with his next contract or more. It just shows you how f'd up his body felt and how he felt he was truly compromising his lifespan if he continued. (He probably already has, to be honest.) People have no right to judge him. No one can know exactly how he feels. He has every right to retire whenever he wants to, on his own terms. Yes, even 2 weeks before the start of the season. He obviously had been thinking about it for a while, but you can't expect a guy to retire months ago if he wasn't sure about it. There was no sense of bitterness whatsoever from Reich, Irsay, or Ballard at the press conference they did.
Gottlieb and Dakich are tools. I may not agree with Steve Beuerlein's take, but at least he didn't frame it like a complete dolt. Gottlieb and Dakich did.
I don't know about that. I don't have strong feelings on the issue one way or the other. As a Texans fan, Andrew Luck was always the guy who wasn't as deadly as Manning. However, I think that the situation is more complex and nuanced than just some guy deciding to quit his job for health reasons.
Jocks are held up as heroic figures. To a large extent, this is why they make so much money. I'm a little put off by the suggestion of ex-jocks like Aikman, and some of the pundits who cover the game, that there is something heroic about quitting. That strikes me as a case of the fraternity circling the wagons.
Fairly or unfairly, Gottlieb and Dakich are saying what a lot of people are thinking. Luck walked onto the stage and took the money and glory that came with being on the stage. I'm a little put off by the idea that we now are required to judge him by the standards of regular people. At some level, that's true, but at another level, it's not. We're still entitled to evaluate him by the standards of NFL quarterbacks. There had been questions about Luck's mentality all along. Dakich says that there were scouts who questioned his commitment at the time of the draft, and I sort of remember hearing that at the time. Now comes this.
So when you say that he has the right to retire whenever he wants to, you're right, but you're also being incomplete. By accepting the mantle of an NFL quarterback, he was subject to additional expectations and responsibilities. He did not live up to them.
Basketball Fan, I know you are based in Indy if I remember correctly.
What would you say the general sentiment is of the city?
I was there for the first time in my life 3 weeks ago and saw Luck's larger than life image on Lucas Oil Stadium and all around town and have to think it must be shocking to the locals?
May I ask why you were in Indy? If you were in downtown I hear there's a ton of construction but I haven't been near downtown since the Colts game I went to last season.
Yep I lived here a lot longer than I thought I would its really become home(even though I grew up in a different part of the state).
However most people are understanding of why Luck wanted to retire they don't like that he waited 2 weeks before the season began and find it rather hypocritical to praise him for doing this but roasting Vontae for doing the same thing during halftime of a game.
The national media fails to take into account the local stories of how Luck was getting better, showing him throwing a football acting like this was going to be a good season etc and then we hear about retirement after all this talk about him possibly being missing a few games instead he just quit. All this announced shortly after the season tickets sales were finalized.
They did this with Manning years ago when he was out for the year and Luck a couple years back. Look I think a lot of Colts fans are fairweathered but really don't present Luck etc being the future when you knew he was going to retire or at least consider it. The Colts knew for months but were trying to talk him out of it clearly they couldn't.
I love the team but the owner sucks.
Yes, I was downtown and there was construction everywhere!
I stayed at the Hilton Downtown for a business conference taking place at a big insurance carrier (One America) that is based there.
One thing I was able to do is go out one night to the Slippery Noodle Inn, supposedly the oldest bar in Indiana that has quite a history with John Dillinger and such. It also has live music every night and was really cool.
On my way to that bar, I went right past Lucas Oil Stadium so I got to check it out up close and Luck's image was like 100 feet tall on it.
I really liked Indy, the people were friendly and the downtown wasn't scary like some others I have been to.
I agree on Luck that the timing could have been better. I don't blame him for retiring as it is his life to live, but to do it this close to the season with season tickets and such already paid for is a tough pill to swallow. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
The thing is, I highly doubt Luck didn't have conversations already with the Colts stating how he felt about this season. They were probably telling him not to rush to a decision but they would have a contingency plan in case he doesn't change his mind. Then he finally confirmed his decision.
I think a lot of fans are upset with Luck because they assume he waited to inform the team until 2 weeks before the season started but I would bet that this has been talked about for months. It just wasn't public knowledge until now.
The thing is, I highly doubt Luck didn't have conversations already with the Colts stating how he felt about this season. They were probably telling him not to rush to a decision but they would have a contingency plan in case he doesn't change his mind. Then he finally confirmed his decision.
I think a lot of fans are upset with Luck because they assume he waited to inform the team until 2 weeks before the season started but I would bet that this has been talked about for months. It just wasn't public knowledge until now.
I dont think when he talked to the Colts matters really. The reason many fans are upset is because it is franchise altering, and, people had spent time, money, and energy on Luck and Colts merchandise. There were people at that preseason game with jerseys they had bought with the price tag still on it.
Again, if Lebron retired today, I don’t think Laker fans will say oooohhhhh looks like he was talking about it for a while now so it’s great.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:37 am Post subject:
The people that are calling Luck out are the same people who would be slamming him if he tried to tough it out and could only go through the motions.
He'd get crucified for taking money he didn't deserve and get labeled selfish and greedy. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The thing is, I highly doubt Luck didn't have conversations already with the Colts stating how he felt about this season. They were probably telling him not to rush to a decision but they would have a contingency plan in case he doesn't change his mind. Then he finally confirmed his decision.
I think a lot of fans are upset with Luck because they assume he waited to inform the team until 2 weeks before the season started but I would bet that this has been talked about for months. It just wasn't public knowledge until now.
I dont think when he talked to the Colts matters really. The reason many fans are upset is because it is franchise altering, and, people had spent time, money, and energy on Luck and Colts merchandise. There were people at that preseason game with jerseys they had bought with the price tag still on it.
Again, if Lebron retired today, I don’t think Laker fans will say oooohhhhh looks like he was talking about it for a while now so it’s great.
As a fan I can understand their frustration but I do believe that it is unfair to place the entirety of the blame on him for the news/timing of it. I'd be upset too if I spent $100-200 on a jersey and then hear he retired 10 minutes later. As humans we want to focus our anger/frustration on one thing so it makes sense that he's getting all of it, I just don't necessarily agree with it.
Looking at this as a compassionate human, I think Luck would be crazy to want to keep playing. The point of a job/career is to make money to be financial stable. He is set for generations off of his earnings. So why stay at a job that is killing you when you have no obligation to? He's proven his commitment to the team before. Why does he have to risk his body being completely broken before it's okay to walk away?
I think it's refreshing that a star athlete can be content with their life and not have their identity tied to his on-the-field performance.
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 29999 Location: Likely nowhere near you
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:11 am Post subject:
loslakersss wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
The thing is, I highly doubt Luck didn't have conversations already with the Colts stating how he felt about this season. They were probably telling him not to rush to a decision but they would have a contingency plan in case he doesn't change his mind. Then he finally confirmed his decision.
I think a lot of fans are upset with Luck because they assume he waited to inform the team until 2 weeks before the season started but I would bet that this has been talked about for months. It just wasn't public knowledge until now.
I dont think when he talked to the Colts matters really. The reason many fans are upset is because it is franchise altering, and, people had spent time, money, and energy on Luck and Colts merchandise. There were people at that preseason game with jerseys they had bought with the price tag still on it.
Again, if Lebron retired today, I don’t think Laker fans will say oooohhhhh looks like he was talking about it for a while now so it’s great.
As a fan I can understand their frustration but I do believe that it is unfair to place the entirety of the blame on him for the news/timing of it. I'd be upset too if I spent $100-200 on a jersey and then hear he retired 10 minutes later. As humans we want to focus our anger/frustration on one thing so it makes sense that he's getting all of it, I just don't necessarily agree with it.
Looking at this as a compassionate human, I think Luck would be crazy to want to keep playing. The point of a job/career is to make money to be financial stable. He is set for generations off of his earnings. So why stay at a job that is killing you when you have no obligation to? He's proven his commitment to the team before. Why does he have to risk his body being completely broken before it's okay to walk away?
I think it's refreshing that a star athlete can be content with their life and not have their identity tied to his on-the-field performance.
I would be upset by the bold as well. _________________ Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.'
I don't care what position you play. If you play football, your doing damage to your brain. So, retire when you damn well please. Who cares about these billion dollar organizations who don't look out for the health of retired players suffering with CTE, among other illnesses.
The thing is, I highly doubt Luck didn't have conversations already with the Colts stating how he felt about this season. They were probably telling him not to rush to a decision but they would have a contingency plan in case he doesn't change his mind. Then he finally confirmed his decision.
I think a lot of fans are upset with Luck because they assume he waited to inform the team until 2 weeks before the season started but I would bet that this has been talked about for months. It just wasn't public knowledge until now.
I dont think when he talked to the Colts matters really. The reason many fans are upset is because it is franchise altering, and, people had spent time, money, and energy on Luck and Colts merchandise. There were people at that preseason game with jerseys they had bought with the price tag still on it.
Again, if Lebron retired today, I don’t think Laker fans will say oooohhhhh looks like he was talking about it for a while now so it’s great.
As a fan I can understand their frustration but I do believe that it is unfair to place the entirety of the blame on him for the news/timing of it. I'd be upset too if I spent $100-200 on a jersey and then hear he retired 10 minutes later. As humans we want to focus our anger/frustration on one thing so it makes sense that he's getting all of it, I just don't necessarily agree with it.
Looking at this as a compassionate human, I think Luck would be crazy to want to keep playing. The point of a job/career is to make money to be financial stable. He is set for generations off of his earnings. So why stay at a job that is killing you when you have no obligation to? He's proven his commitment to the team before. Why does he have to risk his body being completely broken before it's okay to walk away?
I think it's refreshing that a star athlete can be content with their life and not have their identity tied to his on-the-field performance.
You think it is refreshing because it didnt happen to your player or team.
Did you see this board when Paul George chose OKC?
I saw this board when PG and KW chose to go elsewhere. People are reactionary and say/do stupid things when they're upset. I think once everyone cools off they will think "good for him, he went out on his own terms".
I saw this board when PG and KW chose to go elsewhere. People are reactionary and say/do stupid things when they're upset. I think once everyone cools off they will think "good for him, he went out on his own terms".
How long is the cool off period?
They are still freaking out about Dwight Howard doing what he feels is best for him and his family.
I saw this board when PG and KW chose to go elsewhere. People are reactionary and say/do stupid things when they're upset. I think once everyone cools off they will think "good for him, he went out on his own terms".
How long is the cool off period?
They are still freaking out about Dwight Howard doing what he feels is best for him and his family.
YMMV, but the DH threads are proof enough that some people can't let go of disappointment/frustration while others can.
I saw this board when PG and KW chose to go elsewhere. People are reactionary and say/do stupid things when they're upset. I think once everyone cools off they will think "good for him, he went out on his own terms".
How long is the cool off period?
They are still freaking out about Dwight Howard doing what he feels is best for him and his family.
YMMV, but the DH threads are proof enough that some people can't let go of disappointment/frustration while others can.
Ya. I’m not saying everyone who has ever self identified as a Laker fan can’t let go.
My point is that the sentiments will be much stronger when it impacts a team you are a fan of. So while what a player does may seem refreshing to some, it is just more convenient to take that position when what they do has no impact to you. That’s all my man.
I gotcha. I agree, it definitely does suck as a fan.
I do hope this helps the NFL get closer to a player empowerment era like we're seeing in the NBA though. Right now it seems like retirement is the only choice players can really make in regards to their career; even FA isn't fair with the franchise tags.
Colts fans have every right to be upset at the circumstances surrounding the situation, as well as their team's misfortune. However, making derogatory statements about Luck or his character is just low, whether you're a Colts fan or just a neutral observer.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67614 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^
The angry reactions to Gottlieb (and others like Dakich) are a bit over the top. Fair or unfair, the critics are saying what a lot of people are thinking. Notice that the responses from ex-players (Smith, Aikman, Golic) to these guys immediately get personal. It appears that there is a raw nerve here.
So the responses are coming from people who actually played the game with the criticism coming from those who didn’t. Easy to determine which opinion to listen to.
I'm going to listen to me. I have an opinion. Just because the pros opinion doesn't side with mine makes no difference to me. They have their opinion as pros, I have mine as a fan.
The NFL is a tough game. If Andrew decided he doesn't want to play anymore and did to satisfy fans IMO that would be disingenuous.
He would not only be cheating himself but also the fans. He wouldn't give 100%. If I were a fan of the Colts I wouldn't want a QB that wasn't in it to win it. If Andrew doesn't want to play I don't think he would be.
I understand why some fans are upset, they expected him to play. Those upset, again, IMO are asking a man to do something he doesn't want to. I wouldn't want a starting QB that doesn't want to play.
The Colts are in good hands. Jacoby Brissett is no Andrew Luck but is a adequate replacement. When given a chance he proved to be capable. IMO if it weren't for Luck he would have been starting. Puts me in mind of Jimmy Garoppolo.
The organization built a club ready to go all the way. They shored up the OL, got decent receivers and running backs. They have a good defense. The Colts have a team ready to contend.
Brissett is in the best position of his NFL career. He's only 26 with very little mileage. Instead of complaining I think Colt fans should get behind the team they have. Will they make the playoffs, YES. Will they get to the SB, lets wait and see. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Basketball Fan, I know you are based in Indy if I remember correctly.
What would you say the general sentiment is of the city?
I was there for the first time in my life 3 weeks ago and saw Luck's larger than life image on Lucas Oil Stadium and all around town and have to think it must be shocking to the locals?
May I ask why you were in Indy? If you were in downtown I hear there's a ton of construction but I haven't been near downtown since the Colts game I went to last season.
Yep I lived here a lot longer than I thought I would its really become home(even though I grew up in a different part of the state).
However most people are understanding of why Luck wanted to retire they don't like that he waited 2 weeks before the season began and find it rather hypocritical to praise him for doing this but roasting Vontae for doing the same thing during halftime of a game.
The national media fails to take into account the local stories of how Luck was getting better, showing him throwing a football acting like this was going to be a good season etc and then we hear about retirement after all this talk about him possibly being missing a few games instead he just quit. All this announced shortly after the season tickets sales were finalized.
They did this with Manning years ago when he was out for the year and Luck a couple years back. Look I think a lot of Colts fans are fairweathered but really don't present Luck etc being the future when you knew he was going to retire or at least consider it. The Colts knew for months but were trying to talk him out of it clearly they couldn't.
I love the team but the owner sucks.
Yes, I was downtown and there was construction everywhere!
I stayed at the Hilton Downtown for a business conference taking place at a big insurance carrier (One America) that is based there.
One thing I was able to do is go out one night to the Slippery Noodle Inn, supposedly the oldest bar in Indiana that has quite a history with John Dillinger and such. It also has live music every night and was really cool.
On my way to that bar, I went right past Lucas Oil Stadium so I got to check it out up close and Luck's image was like 100 feet tall on it.
I really liked Indy, the people were friendly and the downtown wasn't scary like some others I have been to.
I agree on Luck that the timing could have been better. I don't blame him for retiring as it is his life to live, but to do it this close to the season with season tickets and such already paid for is a tough pill to swallow.
I've been to that hotel its a nice one. Although Dillinger is mostly known in the Gary area than here though. I bet they'll put a picture of TY Hilton up there instead.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67614 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:20 pm Post subject:
Wvc0925 wrote:
What if LBJ retired today? Pretty sure this board would go nuclear.
You better know it. The site would crash like it did when Kawhi Leonard made his decision. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject:
There are a ton of apples to oranges analogies popping up here that really don't equate at all to the Luck situation.
Bottomline, Luck chose to retire because it was what was best for his physical well being as he viewed it as the only person who is really in the appropriate position to view it.
Paul George choosing the Clippers over the Lakers doesn't even remotely translate to Luck's choice. And LeBron randomly just retiring out of nowhere without Luck's injury history is just as offbase.
And to expand on that, what fans "expect" is often completely contrary to what is fair for them to expect in the context. And in context, there is no comparison to fans reacting negatively to Paul George's decision and the negative reaction to Luck's decision - which was based on health concerns. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31910 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
There are a ton of apples to oranges analogies popping up here that really don't equate at all to the Luck situation.
Bottomline, Luck chose to retire because it was what was best for his physical well being as he viewed it as the only person who is really in the appropriate position to view it.
Paul George choosing the Clippers over the Lakers doesn't even remotely translate to Luck's choice. And LeBron randomly just retiring out of nowhere without Luck's injury history is just as offbase.
And to expand on that, what fans "expect" is often completely contrary to what is fair for them to expect in the context. And in context, there is no comparison to fans reacting negatively to Paul George's decision and the negative reaction to Luck's decision - which was based on health concerns.
I am in agreement with you, totally. I'm going to now list a few injuries:
Sprained shoulder
Lacerated kidney (!!!)
Torn abdominal muscle
Torn rib cartilage
Concussion
Torn labrum
Calf strain/high ankle issue
Now, imagine that you had to take painkilling injections just to be able to play through some of these injuries, as Luck did with the torn rib cartilage and the shoulder pain before his actual shoulder surgery following the torn labrum. Imagine peeing blood, as he did after the lacerated kidney. Now imagine suffering all of these injuries in a 4-year span.
This is what happened with Andrew Luck.
Now, imagine that LeBron James suffered through these exact same injuries. If he chose to retire during training camp, everyone with a brain would understand it. LeBron has had just one major injury in his basketball life, so yeah, we'd be confused if he retired during training camp, seemingly without warning.
I am in agreement with you, totally. I'm going to now list a few injuries:
Sprained shoulder
Lacerated kidney (!!!)
Torn abdominal muscle
Torn rib cartilage
Concussion
Torn labrum
Calf strain/high ankle issue
Now, imagine that you had to take painkilling injections just to be able to play through some of these injuries, as Luck did with the torn rib cartilage and the shoulder pain before his actual shoulder surgery following the torn labrum. Imagine peeing blood, as he did after the lacerated kidney. Now imagine suffering all of these injuries in a 4-year span.
This is what happened with Andrew Luck.
Now, imagine that LeBron James suffered through these exact same injuries. If he chose to retire during training camp, everyone with a brain would understand it. LeBron has had just one major injury in his basketball life, so yeah, we'd be confused if he retired during training camp, seemingly without warning.
I'm not buying it. Like it or not, we are going to compare Andrew Luck to other football players. There are guys who come back from multiple ACLs, broken bones, and the like. A lot of us are going to read that list of injuries and conclude that Andrew Luck was too soft and mentally weak to make it as an NFL quarterback.
Would I want to suffer those injuries? Hell no. But I wouldn't want to play in the NFL, either, except maybe for the money. I'm way too soft for that bleep. Once I had made enough money, I'd get the hell out. That sounds just like Andrew Luck. It doesn't sound like the athletes we honor. And that's the point.
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