Hakeem Olajuwon vs Anthony Davis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Olajuwon guarding the perimeter


And that's when he wasn't at his peak athletically or defensively.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Olajuwon guarding the perimeter


And that's when he wasn't at his peak athletically or defensively.

not to diminish hakeem or anything...

but IMO, nobody has more game saving blocks than none other than Pau Gasol. And for a guy not known for his defense (unfairly that is). Half of those blocks are on ray allen, btw, lol.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:09 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great
he does. this is his first time playing on a contender.
he has stated a goal of getting ft% to 85. this is not just for fts....if he does that, he will be a deadly shooter. he can beat giannis for mvp, its possible. giannis will probably never shoot as well as AD, but he will have certain physical advantages. I am terribly excited to see how AD the laker will play. if kawhi didnt snag PG, I'd have no worries about the ring.
he's still expanding his game too. his ball handling has taken a huge leap and he's got a chance to be one of the absolute most dynamic offensive players in the league, outside-in or however
When comparing AD to Hakeem, I forgot that we were comparing AD at his present stage of his career vs Hakeem's entire career

In addition, this is the first time where AD faces the glare, pressure, privilege, scrutiny (from fans - LAKER fans especially), media exposure, etc. Every player says they want it but Laker fans have seen countless pas examples of flameout (Glenn Rice and others) - but also ascension in to greatness (most notably the great Pau Gasol who instantly clicked with the Black Mamba)

Hoping that the LaLa Glare will bring out the DOG (aka Black Mamba) mode in him and he will seek to become (because he has the uber talent to do so) to make the impace like Hakeem did (given their similar skillset) and something greater.

Wouldn't it be great if he was a combination of LO and Hakeem!

Yes, Hakeem can guard the perimeter - but why would one be willing to have him out on an island consistently, just like the contrary example of having him guard bigs in the paint (though he can do both) consistently. That is NOT smart coaching.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:01 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
markjay wrote:
67 years of height evolution in the NBA
https://runrepeat.com/height-evolution-in-the-nba

Lots of great data, some of it relevant to this thread.
The problem is that the quality of the data is not immune to question. There are people who will argue that the height numbers for all of the old time players are genuine and the numbers for all of the modern players are inflated. The guy who makes the Wilt Chamberlain videos has championed this argument. While I find that argument to be questionable at best, there is no doubt that the height and weight numbers over time are not scientific.

My eyeball appraisal tells me that the numbers in those charts are close to the mark. But even then, the real change over the decades is that big men are much more athletic than they used to be. Wilt had a modern level of athleticism, and he looks like a freak playing against the big stiffs of his time.


Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Shaq. He would look like a freak playing against the bigs of today too.
Wilt was most definitely not bigger than Shaq. He might have been slightly taller than Shaq, but not bigger.

Wilt might be a great center in the modern game. It's hard to say for sure, because we have no reliable standard of reference. But I do not think that he would look like a freak in the modern game.
Wilt was bigger (height/length) than Shaq. He didn't weigh as much in most seasons, in an era where that type of mass was not encouraged. He did get up to the 320 mark in some seasons.

A player that is bigger than Shaq and just as athletic would look like a freak today too. The standard of reference is the C (Shaq) that wasn't bigger or more athletic than Wilt (and arguably wayyyyy less skilled) looking like a freak against the bigs of today.
Some interesting factoids on The Wilt

In college at the University of Kansas, the 7'1" goliath ran a sub-11-second 100-yard dash and also threw the shot put 56 feet. Despite competing and excelling in both sprinting and throwing these were not his best events. Chamberlain triple jumped more than 50 feet and successfully won the Big 8 Conference high jumping competition three years in a row

He played for the University of Kansas and also for the Harlem Globetrotters before playing in the NBA. Chamberlain stood 7 ft 1 in (2.16 m) tall, and weighed 250 pounds (110 kg) as a rookie before bulking up to 275 and eventually to over 300 pounds (140 kg) with the Lakers.
~ Shaq - the 7-foot-1 phenom out of LSU arrived in the NBA weighing less than 300 pounds--294 to be exact. Where Wilt never bulked up to maintain, continue and esclate his dominance - he never had to bulk up
-
It was after the Lakers' first championship that Shaq made a decision that had immediate rewards but proved to be a long-range disaster. Feeling that massive centers like Arvydas Sabonis and Luc Longley were pushing him around in the low post, Shaq felt that he needed to be heavier. In his equation, mass equaled power equaled total domination. He therefore instructed his personal chef to overload his meals with meat and potatoes and the pounds quickly began to accumulate. (https://www.stack.com/a/remember-when-shaq-was-ripped-and-super-athletic-heres-how-he-put-on-so-much-weight)

At Overbrook High School in West Philadelphia, he was an avid track and field star: he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 yards in 49.0 seconds and the 880 yards in 1:58.3, propelled the shot put 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet.

He beat the immortal NFL player, Jim Brown, in a race, when he played with the Harlem Globetrotters

He also played polo, tennis, paddle ball and water skied.

After his basketball career ended, Chamberlain played volleyball in the short-lived International Volleyball Association, was president of this organization, and is enshrined in the IVA Hall of Fame for his contributions.

If anybody has any doubt that Wilt had the agility, speed, quickness and/or basketball skills to thrive in today's game, check out the video below

He is like The Greek Freak, Jokic, Hakeem and Russell put together. He can run, dunked, pass and shoot (albeit from 7 feet in. Would teams packed the paint, of course. Watching the clips below, where he was shedding off other players to get his points, who was going to stop him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJGCySdvlPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8DXpxP1G-8
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:36 am    Post subject:

^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


Good article. Thanks.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Olajuwon guarding the perimeter

More evidence.
Olajuwon guarding the perimeter and blocking the GOAT.
https://youtu.be/Tpk_O6TVPsI

Fri, Dec 11, 1992 Bulls vs. Rockets
Rockets win 110-96
Hakeem 28/13/7/5/4

Thu, Jan 28, 1993 Bulls vs. Rockets
Rockets win 94-83
Hakeem 18/17/5/4/3

Admittedly, Jordan Bulls got the better of HOU in 95-96.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


<sigh> I get so tired of these cross-generational who-was-best arguments, the rules changed, the game changed, the sport and techniques evolved, it's pretty difficult to say someone who rose to the top of the sport and obliterated as many scoring and rebounding records as Wilt did wouldn't thrive in the modern game as well if he were born a half century later, given modern coaching, offensive sets, training, equipment, shoes, refereeing, rules, nutrition, etc. Apples and oranges as stands right now.

However, it's ironic that you toss the hype argument out there while engaging in it. Mad Chinaman's post for the most part consisted of one of the few things that does translate well over a half century: actual results from track and field events. Don't tell me a 49 second 400M is pedestrian either, it's damn fast. I'm curious how many modern NBA stars were track standouts, particularly centers. It doesn't prove that Wilt's game would dominate today, but it does prove he was an athletic beast who excelled in multiple sports, and that you can't rule it out. And that's as close to an answer as we'll ever get.

I thought this thread was about AD v. Hakeem. And yes, Hakeem was a great player. Season can't start soon enough.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject:

The greats of old were exactly that, great in their history and era. Sort of like comparing the Beatles and hip-hop.

Compare AD to a current center with five plus years, preferably from one that hasn’t won a title on a super team.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


<sigh> I get so tired of these cross-generational who-was-best arguments, the rules changed, the game changed, the sport and techniques evolved, it's pretty difficult to say someone who rose to the top of the sport and obliterated as many scoring and rebounding records as Wilt did wouldn't thrive in the modern game as well if he were born a half century later, given modern coaching, offensive sets, training, equipment, shoes, refereeing, rules, nutrition, etc. Apples and oranges as stands right now.

However, it's ironic that you toss the hype argument out there while engaging in it. Mad Chinaman's post for the most part consisted of one of the few things that does translate well over a half century: actual results from track and field events. Don't tell me a 49 second 400M is pedestrian either, it's damn fast. I'm curious how many modern NBA stars were track standouts, particularly centers. It doesn't prove that Wilt's game would dominate today, but it does prove he was an athletic beast who excelled in multiple sports, and that you can't rule it out. And that's as close to an answer as we'll ever get.

I thought this thread was about AD v. Hakeem. And yes, Hakeem was a great player. Season can't start soon enough.

that video is not any more objective than whatever AH is critiquing. Just because you count things and have numbers and graphs doesnt make it more objective...and its not "statistics". tooomuch raises a good point, and ill add to it...
NONE of the current athletes have the obsession with the sport and athletics, and working out, like Wilt did. Maybe someone like Kobe did, but even that would be hard to say. Nobody today is going to bring his combo of size, athleticism, and obsession.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


Out of curiosity, what makes that one more objective?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


Out of curiosity, what makes that one more objective?

its not. she thinks because theres numbers and graphs, and the author has counted certain things in plays and has nitpicked individual plays (which in their defense, there really isnt much to go on). but just because you do things with numbers doesnt make it objective. to me, the author criticizes wilt from a modern standpoint, not taking into account ANY things that are totally different about that time.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/
<sigh> I get so tired of these cross-generational who-was-best arguments, the rules changed, the game changed, the sport and techniques evolved, it's pretty difficult to say someone who rose to the top of the sport and obliterated as many scoring and rebounding records as Wilt did wouldn't thrive in the modern game as well if he were born a half century later, given modern coaching, offensive sets, training, equipment, shoes, refereeing, rules, nutrition, etc. Apples and oranges as stands right now.

However, it's ironic that you toss the hype argument out there while engaging in it. Mad Chinaman's post for the most part consisted of one of the few things that does translate well over a half century: actual results from track and field events. Don't tell me a 49 second 400M is pedestrian either, it's damn fast. I'm curious how many modern NBA stars were track standouts, particularly centers. It doesn't prove that Wilt's game would dominate today, but it does prove he was an athletic beast who excelled in multiple sports, and that you can't rule it out. And that's as close to an answer as we'll ever get.

I thought this thread was about AD v. Hakeem. And yes, Hakeem was a great player. Season can't start soon enough.
Some points to consider

There wouldn't be Shaq and others without The Wilt (including other greats during those eras

Today's athletes had the advantages of knowing much more about diet, training and drills PLUS the advantage of not having to work during the off-season since NBA are among the highest paid athletes in the world, best in the United States

Offered the assessment of greatness by including the factors of having the athletic skills and mindset to adapt (noting that with the addition of D12/D39, the game has dramatically changed and those who can't adapt quickly become outdated)

On thise standards, The Wilt stands very tall. Russell would have been a Dennis Rodman-like athletic, etc.

Back on the original subject, AD can be Hakeem - if he wants to (recognizing that he does not). Playing the 5, he would be at a disadvantage against a few cent4ers such as Embiid, Jokic and very few others. He would balacne the table into his favor because those centers cannot match his foot speed or quickness over the entire course of a game or playoff series.

Hopefully during this upcomiong season, being around LBJ and The Black Mamba will embed an aura and passion of taking no prisoners on the court within him. With his NBA season filled with teams with dynamic superstar duos who are uber talented, the differences will be which players will exhibit The Black Mamba focus!

If AD captures that, that would bring AD into the world of Hakeem and other great HOFers.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject:

I think Wilt would have been a great player today - although he doesn't look like the guy who would develop into being above reproach to the lack of posting up in today's game... Because he's more mechanical there than modern players...so to expect development far beyond them in that facet, why is that fair?


Above all else he'd be the best rim running/lob threat in the game that we've ever had, as well as a great rebounder and rim protector. He'd be a top 5 player in the game today, the way I'm thinking of his game translating --- he'd be about as good as Anthony Davis - Davis just does it differently. We don't have the archetype of the skillset I'm envisioning Wilt as being today, in the top 10-12.. So to say he'd be top 5, I think that's good. I guess peak Dwight with better rim running would be a solid comp to crystalize it at least.. So maybe even top 3 player for Wilt.

I'm also saying I absolutely think Wilt would be a unique player today. He would be far and away the pinnacle of that Center role I'm speaking of. But I do think that role has a ceiling in today's game. Lebron's role is above that ceiling, Giannis and probably Kawhi as well.
I've seen impressive highlights of Wilt... I'm rocking w him. Approaching 25ppg with legendary rim protection and rebounding.
Dwight only eclipsed 20.7 ppg one time.. And Dwight was a top 5 player. If Wilt played today I think he could get in the top 12 player of all time discussion.
I'll put him 9th on my all time list
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

We've been through the hype about Wilt a number of times on this board. The guy who made those promotional videos has posted here before. Oh, yeah, he dunked free throws, he picked quarters off the top of the backboard for fun, yada yada yada. Oh, and he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. Wilt was a showman who loved the hype.

If you want a more objective analysis of Wilt as a basketball player, try this one:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/


Out of curiosity, what makes that one more objective?


It isn't a pompom waving exercise in Wilt hype. It's a pretty low standard to be more objective than the silly stuff you see on message boards. But that's always been the problem with Wilt -- he was a showman, and there was always a lot of hype and apocryphal stories surrounding him. There are people who are desperate to make him into Superman. He was impressive enough without the hype, but then we get someone like the guy with the doctored videos trying to make him look otherworldly.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Above all else he'd be the best rim running/lob threat in the game that we've ever had, as well as a great rebounder and rim protector. He'd be a top 5 player in the game today, the way I'm thinking of his game translating --- he'd be about as good as Anthony Davis - Davis just does it differently. We don't have the archetype of the skillset I'm envisioning Wilt as being today, in the top 10-12.. So to say he'd be top 5, I think that's good. I guess peak Dwight with better rim running would be a solid comp to crystalize it at least.. So maybe even top 3 player for Wilt.


That's plausible, though we also have to account for Wilt's weaknesses, starting with free throw shooting. Also, he was not a particularly efficient scorer despite all of the points. In fact, this is one of the places where you can tell that the videos are misleading. In his big scoring years, his FG% was just a little bit over .500. In the videos, he makes every shot. Yes, he averaged 50 points one season, but he took 39.5 shots per game and made 50.6% of them. By today's standards, that would make him more of a curiosity than a star. Later in his career, he took fewer shots and shot a higher percentage.

We don't have stats for turnover from that era, so there's no way to test Ben Taylor's suggestion that he was a turnover machine. But even from the videos, you can see evidence that he was fixated with chasing blocks on defense, sort of like Hassan Whiteside. I can definitely envision him as a guy who is constantly getting the ball poked away on offense and who is regularly out of position on defense.

I think he'd be a good player today, possibly even the best pure center in the league. I'm not willing concede that he would be a dominant force, though. If he was only a 50%-ish shooter against the centers of the early 1960s (with a 12 foot lane), what would he be today? Hard to say.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think Wilt would have been a great player today - although he doesn't look like the guy who would develop into being above reproach to the lack of posting up in today's game... Because he's more mechanical there than modern players...so to expect development far beyond them in that facet, why is that fair?


Above all else he'd be the best rim running/lob threat in the game that we've ever had, as well as a great rebounder and rim protector. He'd be a top 5 player in the game today, the way I'm thinking of his game translating --- he'd be about as good as Anthony Davis - Davis just does it differently. We don't have the archetype of the skillset I'm envisioning Wilt as being today, in the top 10-12.. So to say he'd be top 5, I think that's good. I guess peak Dwight with better rim running would be a solid comp to crystalize it at least.. So maybe even top 3 player for Wilt.

I'm also saying I absolutely think Wilt would be a unique player today. He would be far and away the pinnacle of that Center role I'm speaking of. But I do think that role has a ceiling in today's game. Lebron's role is above that ceiling, Giannis and probably Kawhi as well.
I've seen impressive highlights of Wilt... I'm rocking w him. Approaching 25ppg with legendary rim protection and rebounding.
Dwight only eclipsed 20.7 ppg one time.. And Dwight was a top 5 player. If Wilt played today I think he could get in the top 12 player of all time discussion.
I'll put him 9th on my all time list


Wilt would have been Super Dwight.

Dude could play.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Above all else he'd be the best rim running/lob threat in the game that we've ever had, as well as a great rebounder and rim protector. He'd be a top 5 player in the game today, the way I'm thinking of his game translating --- he'd be about as good as Anthony Davis - Davis just does it differently. We don't have the archetype of the skillset I'm envisioning Wilt as being today, in the top 10-12.. So to say he'd be top 5, I think that's good. I guess peak Dwight with better rim running would be a solid comp to crystalize it at least.. So maybe even top 3 player for Wilt.
That's plausible, though we also have to account for Wilt's weaknesses, starting with free throw shooting. Also, he was not a particularly efficient scorer despite all of the points. In fact, this is one of the places where you can tell that the videos are misleading. In his big scoring years, his FG% was just a little bit over .500. In the videos, he makes every shot. Yes, he averaged 50 points one season, but he took 39.5 shots per game and made 50.6% of them. By today's standards, that would make him more of a curiosity than a star. Later in his career, he took fewer shots and shot a higher percentage.

We don't have stats for turnover from that era, so there's no way to test Ben Taylor's suggestion that he was a turnover machine. But even from the videos, you can see evidence that he was fixated with chasing blocks on defense, sort of like Hassan Whiteside. I can definitely envision him as a guy who is constantly getting the ball poked away on offense and who is regularly out of position on defense.

I think he'd be a good player today, possibly even the best pure center in the league. I'm not willing concede that he would be a dominant force, though. If he was only a 50%-ish shooter against the centers of the early 1960s (with a 12 foot lane), what would he be today? Hard to say.
Some legitimate viewpoints

As I have suggested in previous posts, I suggest that having the physical skills and mentality to adapt/improve one’s game be incorporated

The low FY% is a legitimate consideration - just like with Shaq. The other side of the coin is that Wilt would have the opposing team in the penalty very quick and fooling our players.

His FG% is a factor to be considered. With the smaller lane and the increased physicality in the game at that time, especially with Wilt being the top priority in any opposing team’s defensive plans,

Being TO-prone should be considered. With the smaller lane, no 3 point line, being the #1 option on offense and the ability for defenders to all “sink in”’to the paint (zone restrictions would not be in place) makes his stats more amazing PLUS he had gigantic hands. His career has shown his mental and physical ability to adapt.

He would The Greek Freak with a post-up game
He would be AD with a mean streak

Just as Kwahi showed that the midrange shot is still a legitimate and deadly weapon, Gobert showing that being a defensive force of nature and Shaq showed that overly dominant in the paint can still be a consistent force on defense/offense - Wilt displayed the skills and mindset to be very successful in today’s game

However, having AD will definitely make the Lakers the winners if he embraces The Black Mamba” mentality because he has the physical gifts and skills
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:03 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think Wilt would have been a great player today - although he doesn't look like the guy who would develop into being above reproach to the lack of posting up in today's game... Because he's more mechanical there than modern players...so to expect development far beyond them in that facet, why is that fair?


Above all else he'd be the best rim running/lob threat in the game that we've ever had, as well as a great rebounder and rim protector. He'd be a top 5 player in the game today, the way I'm thinking of his game translating --- he'd be about as good as Anthony Davis - Davis just does it differently. We don't have the archetype of the skillset I'm envisioning Wilt as being today, in the top 10-12.. So to say he'd be top 5, I think that's good. I guess peak Dwight with better rim running would be a solid comp to crystalize it at least.. So maybe even top 3 player for Wilt.

I'm also saying I absolutely think Wilt would be a unique player today. He would be far and away the pinnacle of that Center role I'm speaking of. But I do think that role has a ceiling in today's game. Lebron's role is above that ceiling, Giannis and probably Kawhi as well.
I've seen impressive highlights of Wilt... I'm rocking w him. Approaching 25ppg with legendary rim protection and rebounding.
Dwight only eclipsed 20.7 ppg one time.. And Dwight was a top 5 player. If Wilt played today I think he could get in the top 12 player of all time discussion.
I'll put him 9th on my all time list


Wilt would have been Super Dwight.

Dude could play.


Ya. with modern skill training, I think he'd have better touch around the rim. not needing 40shots to average 50ppg. He was a freak, an olympic level sprinter..crazy long. bouncy.
He'd be that really cool modern freak of a big, who's in the rim running/lob threat role. Player's today don't pop in that role, like aesthetically. He would have made it look special. It's made for him. Imagining his athleticism with modern training... is crazy. Like Gobert with Deandre athleticism, Malone strength, and the fastest player on the court.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:29 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Ya. with modern skill training, I think he'd have better touch around the rim. not needing 40shots to average 50ppg. He was a freak, an olympic level sprinter..crazy long. bouncy.


A couple things here.

1. If you start talking about what modern skill training could have done for him, you're now talking about a man who never really existed. It's purely hypothetical. If he was a modern player who spent all of his time in AAU, who knows what he would have been like.

2. Beware of taking the track and field stuff seriously. Like everything else, there is a lot of stuff about Wilt that may or may not really be true. It's just hard to tell because the hype gets repeated so often that people don't question it. Here is a quote from earlier in this thread:

Quote:
At Overbrook High School in West Philadelphia, he was an avid track and field star: he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 yards in 49.0 seconds and the 880 yards in 1:58.3, propelled the shot put 53 feet, 4 inches, and broad jumped 22 feet.


This is a near-verbatim quote from an article in The Sporting News, which came from something written by the Sports Information Director at Kansas back in the day. Well, someone went and looked it up. Here's what they found:

Quote:
High Jump - 6'6"
Wilt would have been ranked #5 in the country with this mark, but his name appears nowhere on the list of the top 15 in the country for that year (15th place was 6'4 5/8"). The winner of the Pennsylvania State Meet that year jumped 6'5.75", and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). The best mark we have for Wilt in this event as a high schooler is 6'1", which won him the Philadelphia Public League Championship (Source).

440 Yards - 49.0
This mark would have put Wilt at #8 in the country, but his name does not appear anywhere on the list of the top 15 for that year (15th place was 49.2). The winner of the Philadelphia Public League Championship that year ran 51.4, and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). The winner of the Pennsylvania State Meet that year ran 49.1, and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). No verifiable results exist for Wilt Chamberlain in the 440 yard dash as a high schooler.

Shot Put - 53'4"
This mark would not have placed Wilt in the top 15 in the country, and obviously his name wasn't on the list. The winner of the Pennsylvania State Meet that year threw 50'6.25", and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). The best mark we have for Wilt in this event as a high schooler is 46'10.5", which won him the Philadelphia Public League Championship (Source).

880 Yards - 1:58.3
The winner of the Philadelphia Public League Championship that year ran 2:01.3, and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). The winner of the Pennsylvania State Meet that year ran 1:58.1, and his name was obviously not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). No verifiable results exist for Wilt Chamberlain in the 880 yard run as a high schooler.

Long Jump - 22'0"
The winner of the Philadelphia Public League Championship that year jumped 21'0.25", and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). The winner of the Pennsylvania State Meet that year jumped 21'11.5", and his name was not Wilt Chamberlain (Source). No verifiable results exist for Wilt Chamberlain in the long jump as a high schooler.


Some of this stuff could be true. Who knows? However, in at least one respect, Wilt was decades ahead of his time: People spewed a lot of nonsense about him, and people accepted it uncritically long before we had internet memes.

The same guy tried to look up Wilt's college records. You would think that this would be easily verifiable, right? I mean, no one could possibly just be making all of this stuff up, right? Well, it's not so clear.

Quote:
On to college! This one is simpler because there aren't as many myths floating around about his marks at Kansas. Here are the two you will here the most often though.

Wilt was undefeated in the shot put in college

Wilt won three consecutive Big Seven high jump titles

Of course, both of these are false. Most of the results from Wilt's college days come from a guy who has old Kansas Relays programs. Unfortunately he never uploaded them online. I will provide links for the rest. Here are the best marks I could come up with for Wilt's three years of collegiate competition.

1956 (Freshman)
High Jump - 6'4 7/8" (1st in Big Seven Freshmen meet)
Shot Put - 47'5.25" (3rd in Big Seven Freshmen meet)
Triple Jump - 46'2" (4th in Kansas Relays)

1957 (Sophomore)
High Jump - 6'5" (1st in Big Seven Outdoor Conference) (Source)
Triple Jump - 45'9" (3rd in Kansas Relays)

1958 (Junior)
High Jump - 6'6.75" (tied-1st in Big Seven Indoor Conference) (Source)

So Wilt tied for the win in one Big Seven indoor high jump competition and won one Big Seven outdoor high jump title (Source). He was never an All-American in college in any track and field event (Source) and definitely didn't go undefeated in the shot put in college (Source).​


Note that the 6' 6" high jump as a junior in college is what Wilt was supposed to have done in high school. In fact, his best verifiable high jump in high school was 6' 1". That was really good for a high schooler in those days, but this illustrates the gap between hype and reality when it comes to Wilt.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject:

I can see the benefit of Wilt playing AAU/growing up today for his view of the game. He would have been more skilled. I mean nobody 1 hand dribbles like the old days anymore anyway.

And for his size, at about 7'2, I've never seen any strong guy run like he did on tape.. he was legit fast.. maybe not elite track fast..but still imo he flew.
And I don't think he leaped like Deandre Jordan.. But at 3" taller and with a lot more length, even a lot longer than Embiid at the same height.. He threw down some impressive dunks; from behind the backboard like I've never seen, I can't front. He really impresses me as an athlete; and I'm not even a huge fan of the old game.

Appreciate you taking the time to look that up though, def revealed some stuff.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:13 am    Post subject:

Yep. I will never deny that he was an impressive athlete. It’s the hype that gets me. Everything with Wilt just gets inflated to Paul Bunyan status. For a high school athlete in that era, a 6’ 1” high jump was really good. For someone of Wilt’s size, it was remarkable. But some people need something that sounds mythological.

The videos of Wilt that impress me the most are the ones of the older Wilt blocking KAJ. Those videos have more modern camera angles, and KAJ is a player we can relate to. I’m not sure how Wilt’s overall defensive game would translate to 2019, but I’m sure he would have been an intimidating rim protector.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject:

Looking at more and more clips.. I still don't think we've seen an athlete like him since. Above like 6'10.5 you don't usually see long players really get a high leap where it looks like they float a bit, and really throw it in. He's not Deandre level twitch, but it's like watching a long 6'9 player jump and run.. that's crazy at 7'2 310 and strong
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject:

For all this talk about Wilt, I'm taking Cap everyday and twice on Sunday over him.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
For all this talk about Wilt, I'm taking Cap everyday and twice on Sunday over him.

well its not wrong.
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