Hakeem Olajuwon vs Anthony Davis
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 12619

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
markjay wrote:
67 years of height evolution in the NBA
https://runrepeat.com/height-evolution-in-the-nba

Lots of great data, some of it relevant to this thread.


The problem is that the quality of the data is not immune to question. There are people who will argue that the height numbers for all of the old time players are genuine and the numbers for all of the modern players are inflated. The guy who makes the Wilt Chamberlain videos has championed this argument. While I find that argument to be questionable at best, there is no doubt that the height and weight numbers over time are not scientific.

My eyeball appraisal tells me that the numbers in those charts are close to the mark. But even then, the real change over the decades is that big men are much more athletic than they used to be. Wilt had a modern level of athleticism, and he looks like a freak playing against the big stiffs of his time.


Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Shaq. He would look like a freak playing against the bigs of today too.


Wilt was most definitely not bigger than Shaq. He might have been slightly taller than Shaq, but not bigger.

Wilt might be a great center in the modern game. It's hard to say for sure, because we have no reliable standard of reference. But I do not think that he would look like a freak in the modern game.


Wilt was bigger (height/length) than Shaq. He didn't weigh as much in most seasons, in an era where that type of mass was not encouraged. He did get up to the 320 mark in some seasons.

A player that is bigger than Shaq and just as athletic would look like a freak today too. The standard of reference is the C (Shaq) that wasn't bigger or more athletic than Wilt (and arguably wayyyyy less skilled) looking like a freak against the bigs of today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 3658

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
markjay wrote:
67 years of height evolution in the NBA
https://runrepeat.com/height-evolution-in-the-nba

Lots of great data, some of it relevant to this thread.


The problem is that the quality of the data is not immune to question. There are people who will argue that the height numbers for all of the old time players are genuine and the numbers for all of the modern players are inflated. The guy who makes the Wilt Chamberlain videos has championed this argument. While I find that argument to be questionable at best, there is no doubt that the height and weight numbers over time are not scientific.

My eyeball appraisal tells me that the numbers in those charts are close to the mark. But even then, the real change over the decades is that big men are much more athletic than they used to be. Wilt had a modern level of athleticism, and he looks like a freak playing against the big stiffs of his time.


Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Shaq. He would look like a freak playing against the bigs of today too.


Wilt was most definitely not bigger than Shaq. He might have been slightly taller than Shaq, but not bigger.

Wilt might be a great center in the modern game. It's hard to say for sure, because we have no reliable standard of reference. But I do not think that he would look like a freak in the modern game.


Wilt was bigger (height/length) than Shaq. He didn't weigh as much in most seasons, in an era where that type of mass was not encouraged. He did get up to the 320 mark in some seasons.

A player that is bigger than Shaq and just as athletic would look like a freak today too. The standard of reference is the C (Shaq) that wasn't bigger or more athletic than Wilt (and arguably wayyyyy less skilled) looking like a freak against the bigs of today.

there's a clip where shaq talks about how he decided that he wasnt going to be able to match the skill of wilt or hakeem etc, and made the choice to be a brute and succeed that way. smart observation on his part.

there's also that video of wilt meeting shaq at the all star game, and they say wilt is so strong he almost ripped shaq's arm off with the handshake. total exaggeration, but you can see how wilt is significantly larger than shaq there.
_________________
U+1F49C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 61560
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No.

Imagine Olajuwon defending a pick and roll, getting switched to the point guard, and then making a recovery block after the pass to the roll-man.

Different tiers.


Just for fun sake. Could you make an argument for AD > Hakeem? Cause I'm down for a fun debate.


Better perimeter player as a face up. You could actually have him run the pick and roll as a ball-handler, as awkward that may be.

AD was a guard before he became a 5. Some of that guard mentality/skill set retained. Better shooter from the perimeter? AD. Better player? Olajuwon is 1-2 tiers better in the post and defensively.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.

LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/Rondo
Green/KCP
Kuzma/Daniels
Davis/Dudley
McGee/Cousins


http://bball-index.com/team/lal/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 5033

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
It should be noted that HOW the game was refereed and what players can get away with dictated the type of players on the court

In yesteryear, the Jordan Rules were worse and players like Harden, Westbrook, Nash and other attacking PGs would get DEMOLISHED - hence you needed to have bruising front court players. in today’s game, the bruiser would either be ejected from countless games, foul out or be useless to the teams they played on

It has been said that how dominate a player was during his era is the best barometer. In comparing players from different eras, one might consider how willing and able players are to adapt to different rules could be a strategic factor

Using these factors, George Mikan should be among the top three centers of all time because of his utter dominance, rings and how he changed the game.

It should be noted that I think that all the highlighted players are HOF worthy
Completely agree. Well I'm not sure about the Mikan part (haven't watch alot of him).
But how the game is reffed is key. I brought that up in the Kobe and TMac vs. Kawhi and PG thread. Somebody implied Kobe and TMac should've shot more 3s. And my response was. Jordan and Kobe won chips taking mid range shots free throw line extended because they could make the shots fouled (especially by today's standards) or not. There was no flopping your way to 3 free throw attempts back then like there is now. In fact the rules protecting shooters now were made partly because players wouldn't let Kobe land (causing him injury). Not to mention the uncalled swipe throughs back then as well.

This playoffs Klay literally hurt himself trying to draw a foul on a 3pt attempt. I laugh just thinking about how stupid that is. The league rewards getting to the free throw line more than making shots nowadays. They over corrected.

When comparing all time greats, reffing is a variable that should be considered.
Maybe another question should be added to our discussion

We have players that were great in their era and those that would be able to adapt to be effective in today’s game

My thoughts are that Wilt and Kareem would have been able to effective adapt in their prime. Wilt was a professional volleyball player and Kareem was a very agile big man

Would Shaq be effective in today’s game - yes. Teams will try to force him to defend P&Rs out on the perimeter (ineffectively by himself) but he would destroy them in the paint and foul out half their team while getting to the bonus very quickly

In addition, most winning teams play excellent team defense to compensate for weaknesses and capitalize on strengths

Going back to the Hakeem vs AD comparisons, both would be able to excel in any era. Rudy T would play Team D that helps protect Hakeem, limit the switching. Just watch how the Utah Jazz and French FIBA basketball Team protected Gobert

Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 9223
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:15 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Shaq. He would look like a freak playing against the bigs of today too.


Wilt was most definitely not bigger than Shaq. He might have been slightly taller than Shaq, but not bigger.

Wilt might be a great center in the modern game. It's hard to say for sure, because we have no reliable standard of reference. But I do not think that he would look like a freak in the modern game.


Wilt was bigger (height/length) than Shaq. He didn't weigh as much in most seasons, in an era where that type of mass was not encouraged. He did get up to the 320 mark in some seasons.

A player that is bigger than Shaq and just as athletic would look like a freak today too. The standard of reference is the C (Shaq) that wasn't bigger or more athletic than Wilt (and arguably wayyyyy less skilled) looking like a freak against the bigs of today.

there's a clip where shaq talks about how he decided that he wasnt going to be able to match the skill of wilt or hakeem etc, and made the choice to be a brute and succeed that way. smart observation on his part.

there's also that video of wilt meeting shaq at the all star game, and they say wilt is so strong he almost ripped shaq's arm off with the handshake. total exaggeration, but you can see how wilt is significantly larger than shaq there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAHG6VhdJag

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/patwiltshaqhe1.jpg

Here's Wilt next my guy, Cap: https://theafricanamericanathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/0076333001440809454_filepicker.jpg
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 3658

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:

Wilt was bigger and more athletic than Shaq. He would look like a freak playing against the bigs of today too.


Wilt was most definitely not bigger than Shaq. He might have been slightly taller than Shaq, but not bigger.

Wilt might be a great center in the modern game. It's hard to say for sure, because we have no reliable standard of reference. But I do not think that he would look like a freak in the modern game.


Wilt was bigger (height/length) than Shaq. He didn't weigh as much in most seasons, in an era where that type of mass was not encouraged. He did get up to the 320 mark in some seasons.

A player that is bigger than Shaq and just as athletic would look like a freak today too. The standard of reference is the C (Shaq) that wasn't bigger or more athletic than Wilt (and arguably wayyyyy less skilled) looking like a freak against the bigs of today.

there's a clip where shaq talks about how he decided that he wasnt going to be able to match the skill of wilt or hakeem etc, and made the choice to be a brute and succeed that way. smart observation on his part.

there's also that video of wilt meeting shaq at the all star game, and they say wilt is so strong he almost ripped shaq's arm off with the handshake. total exaggeration, but you can see how wilt is significantly larger than shaq there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU43dTuMuig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAHG6VhdJag

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/patwiltshaqhe1.jpg

Here's Wilt next my guy, Cap: https://theafricanamericanathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/0076333001440809454_filepicker.jpg

beautiful!!


i never seen that second one!!
_________________
U+1F49C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 61560
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
It should be noted that HOW the game was refereed and what players can get away with dictated the type of players on the court

In yesteryear, the Jordan Rules were worse and players like Harden, Westbrook, Nash and other attacking PGs would get DEMOLISHED - hence you needed to have bruising front court players. in today’s game, the bruiser would either be ejected from countless games, foul out or be useless to the teams they played on

It has been said that how dominate a player was during his era is the best barometer. In comparing players from different eras, one might consider how willing and able players are to adapt to different rules could be a strategic factor

Using these factors, George Mikan should be among the top three centers of all time because of his utter dominance, rings and how he changed the game.

It should be noted that I think that all the highlighted players are HOF worthy
Completely agree. Well I'm not sure about the Mikan part (haven't watch alot of him).
But how the game is reffed is key. I brought that up in the Kobe and TMac vs. Kawhi and PG thread. Somebody implied Kobe and TMac should've shot more 3s. And my response was. Jordan and Kobe won chips taking mid range shots free throw line extended because they could make the shots fouled (especially by today's standards) or not. There was no flopping your way to 3 free throw attempts back then like there is now. In fact the rules protecting shooters now were made partly because players wouldn't let Kobe land (causing him injury). Not to mention the uncalled swipe throughs back then as well.

This playoffs Klay literally hurt himself trying to draw a foul on a 3pt attempt. I laugh just thinking about how stupid that is. The league rewards getting to the free throw line more than making shots nowadays. They over corrected.

When comparing all time greats, reffing is a variable that should be considered.
Maybe another question should be added to our discussion

We have players that were great in their era and those that would be able to adapt to be effective in today’s game

My thoughts are that Wilt and Kareem would have been able to effective adapt in their prime. Wilt was a professional volleyball player and Kareem was a very agile big man

Would Shaq be effective in today’s game - yes. Teams will try to force him to defend P&Rs out on the perimeter (ineffectively by himself) but he would destroy them in the paint and foul out half their team while getting to the bonus very quickly

In addition, most winning teams play excellent team defense to compensate for weaknesses and capitalize on strengths

Going back to the Hakeem vs AD comparisons, both would be able to excel in any era. Rudy T would play Team D that helps protect Hakeem, limit the switching. Just watch how the Utah Jazz and French FIBA basketball Team protected Gobert

Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!


Why would you need to limit Hakeem on switches?

You don't. He was capable. Team strategy is a different thing altogether.

So many stars went against him..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqUSlFma8g
_________________
Resident Car Nut.

LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/Rondo
Green/KCP
Kuzma/Daniels
Davis/Dudley
McGee/Cousins


http://bball-index.com/team/lal/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 20501
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!


In regards to this. I think Pop has lost a step since his wife passed. He's too stubborn. In SAS he refuses to start Patty Mills. Even with D. Murray and L. Walker missing last season to injury.
The USA team doesn't lose to Australia or France if he plays Marcus Smart more (or at all).
How does a USA team score 7 points in a quarter against Serbia?!
And he stupidly ran pick and roll right into Gobert over and over again like he didn't realize what Gobert was good at.
_________________
Turn your losses into lessons. - Mike "The Situation"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 5033

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:24 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
It should be noted that HOW the game was refereed and what players can get away with dictated the type of players on the court

In yesteryear, the Jordan Rules were worse and players like Harden, Westbrook, Nash and other attacking PGs would get DEMOLISHED - hence you needed to have bruising front court players. in today’s game, the bruiser would either be ejected from countless games, foul out or be useless to the teams they played on

It has been said that how dominate a player was during his era is the best barometer. In comparing players from different eras, one might consider how willing and able players are to adapt to different rules could be a strategic factor

Using these factors, George Mikan should be among the top three centers of all time because of his utter dominance, rings and how he changed the game.

It should be noted that I think that all the highlighted players are HOF worthy
Completely agree. Well I'm not sure about the Mikan part (haven't watch alot of him).
But how the game is reffed is key. I brought that up in the Kobe and TMac vs. Kawhi and PG thread. Somebody implied Kobe and TMac should've shot more 3s. And my response was. Jordan and Kobe won chips taking mid range shots free throw line extended because they could make the shots fouled (especially by today's standards) or not. There was no flopping your way to 3 free throw attempts back then like there is now. In fact the rules protecting shooters now were made partly because players wouldn't let Kobe land (causing him injury). Not to mention the uncalled swipe throughs back then as well.

This playoffs Klay literally hurt himself trying to draw a foul on a 3pt attempt. I laugh just thinking about how stupid that is. The league rewards getting to the free throw line more than making shots nowadays. They over corrected.

When comparing all time greats, reffing is a variable that should be considered.
Maybe another question should be added to our discussion

We have players that were great in their era and those that would be able to adapt to be effective in today’s game

My thoughts are that Wilt and Kareem would have been able to effective adapt in their prime. Wilt was a professional volleyball player and Kareem was a very agile big man

Would Shaq be effective in today’s game - yes. Teams will try to force him to defend P&Rs out on the perimeter (ineffectively by himself) but he would destroy them in the paint and foul out half their team while getting to the bonus very quickly

In addition, most winning teams play excellent team defense to compensate for weaknesses and capitalize on strengths

Going back to the Hakeem vs AD comparisons, both would be able to excel in any era. Rudy T would play Team D that helps protect Hakeem, limit the switching. Just watch how the Utah Jazz and French FIBA basketball Team protected Gobert

Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!
Why would you need to limit Hakeem on switches?

You don't. He was capable. Team strategy is a different thing altogether.

So many stars went against him..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqUSlFma8g
Could Hakeem effectively guard the perimeter, on a limited basis

Very hard for any agile big 6’10” and taller to effective guard the perimeter. The counter to that is that Hakeem would punish them in the post
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 5033

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:33 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!
In regards to this. I think Pop has lost a step since his wife passed. He's too stubborn. In SAS he refuses to start Patty Mills. Even with D. Murray and L. Walker missing last season to injury.
The USA team doesn't lose to Australia or France if he plays Marcus Smart more (or at all).
How does a USA team score 7 points in a quarter against Serbia?!
And he stupidly ran pick and roll right into Gobert over and over again like he didn't realize what Gobert was good at.
Having watched the game live, was visiting China, the US didn’t have enough talent and it was obvious - especially against Serbia. The Celtic members of the team were invisible, except for Kemba. US team had NO dependable shooter and no one that had that “DOG!!” Pop and Kerr are among the best of maximizing the talent given them. Even if Draymond is on the Olympics team, if he has no shooters to pass to (hello Booker, Trae, etc) - one will get the same results
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
methdxman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 31 Jan 2002
Posts: 6780
Location: Los Angeles/Barcelona

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject:

Hakeem is one of hate most underrated players in NBA history.

He was disadvantaged because he played in an era when it wasn't common for foreign players to be stars.

His defense was so crazy. He was quick on his feet, his hands were godly and his timing for blocks is up there with the greatest of all time.

And offensive game? Come on.

I love having AD on the team and I'm a big fan now, but Hakeem is Mt. Rushmore tier.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 3658

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject:

methdxman wrote:
Hakeem is one of hate most underrated players in NBA history.

He was disadvantaged because he played in an era when it wasn't common for foreign players to be stars.

His defense was so crazy. He was quick on his feet, his hands were godly and his timing for blocks is up there with the greatest of all time.

And offensive game? Come on.

I love having AD on the team and I'm a big fan now, but Hakeem is Mt. Rushmore tier.

id not say hakeem was underrated. he was pretty popular from the get go, and highly respected etc. and now in the current age, he is consistently mentioned as a top center of all time, like top5. if anything is underrated about him, its the 80s years, in the sense that most people dont remember what that looked like, they only remember the championship mid 90s years.

i think the guy that goes underrated is barkely. people dont remember that for a long time he was like just #2 to MJ. and how damn good he was all around.
_________________
U+1F49C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 61560
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
It should be noted that HOW the game was refereed and what players can get away with dictated the type of players on the court

In yesteryear, the Jordan Rules were worse and players like Harden, Westbrook, Nash and other attacking PGs would get DEMOLISHED - hence you needed to have bruising front court players. in today’s game, the bruiser would either be ejected from countless games, foul out or be useless to the teams they played on

It has been said that how dominate a player was during his era is the best barometer. In comparing players from different eras, one might consider how willing and able players are to adapt to different rules could be a strategic factor

Using these factors, George Mikan should be among the top three centers of all time because of his utter dominance, rings and how he changed the game.

It should be noted that I think that all the highlighted players are HOF worthy
Completely agree. Well I'm not sure about the Mikan part (haven't watch alot of him).
But how the game is reffed is key. I brought that up in the Kobe and TMac vs. Kawhi and PG thread. Somebody implied Kobe and TMac should've shot more 3s. And my response was. Jordan and Kobe won chips taking mid range shots free throw line extended because they could make the shots fouled (especially by today's standards) or not. There was no flopping your way to 3 free throw attempts back then like there is now. In fact the rules protecting shooters now were made partly because players wouldn't let Kobe land (causing him injury). Not to mention the uncalled swipe throughs back then as well.

This playoffs Klay literally hurt himself trying to draw a foul on a 3pt attempt. I laugh just thinking about how stupid that is. The league rewards getting to the free throw line more than making shots nowadays. They over corrected.

When comparing all time greats, reffing is a variable that should be considered.
Maybe another question should be added to our discussion

We have players that were great in their era and those that would be able to adapt to be effective in today’s game

My thoughts are that Wilt and Kareem would have been able to effective adapt in their prime. Wilt was a professional volleyball player and Kareem was a very agile big man

Would Shaq be effective in today’s game - yes. Teams will try to force him to defend P&Rs out on the perimeter (ineffectively by himself) but he would destroy them in the paint and foul out half their team while getting to the bonus very quickly

In addition, most winning teams play excellent team defense to compensate for weaknesses and capitalize on strengths

Going back to the Hakeem vs AD comparisons, both would be able to excel in any era. Rudy T would play Team D that helps protect Hakeem, limit the switching. Just watch how the Utah Jazz and French FIBA basketball Team protected Gobert

Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!
Why would you need to limit Hakeem on switches?

You don't. He was capable. Team strategy is a different thing altogether.

So many stars went against him..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqUSlFma8g
Could Hakeem effectively guard the perimeter, on a limited basis

Very hard for any agile big 6’10” and taller to effective guard the perimeter. The counter to that is that Hakeem would punish them in the post


But that's what made Hakeem unique. He had guards footwork. It's always highlighted through offense and while he rarely switched, it's not like he wasn't capable. He would basically zone guards on switches and block shots at the rim. With his given athleticism, I'd still trust him over most.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.

LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/Rondo
Green/KCP
Kuzma/Daniels
Davis/Dudley
McGee/Cousins


http://bball-index.com/team/lal/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 22811

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Olajuwon guarding the perimeter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker's Fan
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 8936

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No.

Imagine Olajuwon defending a pick and roll, getting switched to the point guard, and then making a recovery block after the pass to the roll-man.

Different tiers.


Just for fun sake. Could you make an argument for AD > Hakeem? Cause I'm down for a fun debate.


Better perimeter player as a face up. You could actually have him run the pick and roll as a ball-handler, as awkward that may be.

AD was a guard before he became a 5. Some of that guard mentality/skill set retained. Better shooter from the perimeter? AD. Better player? Olajuwon is 1-2 tiers better in the post and defensively.


How much of that analysis holds if you only consider Hakeem through his year 26 season?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 35601

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
methdxman wrote:
Hakeem is one of hate most underrated players in NBA history.

He was disadvantaged because he played in an era when it wasn't common for foreign players to be stars.

His defense was so crazy. He was quick on his feet, his hands were godly and his timing for blocks is up there with the greatest of all time.

And offensive game? Come on.

I love having AD on the team and I'm a big fan now, but Hakeem is Mt. Rushmore tier.

id not say hakeem was underrated. he was pretty popular from the get go, and highly respected etc. and now in the current age, he is consistently mentioned as a top center of all time, like top5. if anything is underrated about him, its the 80s years, in the sense that most people dont remember what that looked like, they only remember the championship mid 90s years.

i think the guy that goes underrated is barkely. people dont remember that for a long time he was like just #2 to MJ. and how damn good he was all around.


Barkley was definitely a freak!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Luminous8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:57 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
kikanga wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
It should be noted that HOW the game was refereed and what players can get away with dictated the type of players on the court

In yesteryear, the Jordan Rules were worse and players like Harden, Westbrook, Nash and other attacking PGs would get DEMOLISHED - hence you needed to have bruising front court players. in today’s game, the bruiser would either be ejected from countless games, foul out or be useless to the teams they played on

It has been said that how dominate a player was during his era is the best barometer. In comparing players from different eras, one might consider how willing and able players are to adapt to different rules could be a strategic factor

Using these factors, George Mikan should be among the top three centers of all time because of his utter dominance, rings and how he changed the game.

It should be noted that I think that all the highlighted players are HOF worthy
Completely agree. Well I'm not sure about the Mikan part (haven't watch alot of him).
But how the game is reffed is key. I brought that up in the Kobe and TMac vs. Kawhi and PG thread. Somebody implied Kobe and TMac should've shot more 3s. And my response was. Jordan and Kobe won chips taking mid range shots free throw line extended because they could make the shots fouled (especially by today's standards) or not. There was no flopping your way to 3 free throw attempts back then like there is now. In fact the rules protecting shooters now were made partly because players wouldn't let Kobe land (causing him injury). Not to mention the uncalled swipe throughs back then as well.

This playoffs Klay literally hurt himself trying to draw a foul on a 3pt attempt. I laugh just thinking about how stupid that is. The league rewards getting to the free throw line more than making shots nowadays. They over corrected.

When comparing all time greats, reffing is a variable that should be considered.
Maybe another question should be added to our discussion

We have players that were great in their era and those that would be able to adapt to be effective in today’s game

My thoughts are that Wilt and Kareem would have been able to effective adapt in their prime. Wilt was a professional volleyball player and Kareem was a very agile big man

Would Shaq be effective in today’s game - yes. Teams will try to force him to defend P&Rs out on the perimeter (ineffectively by himself) but he would destroy them in the paint and foul out half their team while getting to the bonus very quickly

In addition, most winning teams play excellent team defense to compensate for weaknesses and capitalize on strengths

Going back to the Hakeem vs AD comparisons, both would be able to excel in any era. Rudy T would play Team D that helps protect Hakeem, limit the switching. Just watch how the Utah Jazz and French FIBA basketball Team protected Gobert

Note: Ain’t it sad that the highest the US FIBA basketball team can place in SEVENTH!!!
Why would you need to limit Hakeem on switches?

You don't. He was capable. Team strategy is a different thing altogether.

So many stars went against him..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqUSlFma8g
Could Hakeem effectively guard the perimeter, on a limited basis

Very hard for any agile big 6’10” and taller to effective guard the perimeter. The counter to that is that Hakeem would punish them in the post


But that's what made Hakeem unique. He had guards footwork. It's always highlighted through offense and while he rarely switched, it's not like he wasn't capable. He would basically zone guards on switches and block shots at the rim. With his given athleticism, I'd still trust him over most.


No doubt in my mind Dream could feast in a switching defense that asks him to guard the perimeter. Elite footwork coupled with terrific lateral quicks, great timing (highlighted by his 2SPG), and a nearly unmatched defensive IQ tells me that ms a guy I would trust to do anything on that end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 31259

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Olajuwon guarding the perimeter


Wonder if more bigs should use that wrong foot leap, to get off the ground quicker to contest. Of course he did
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 12619

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:28 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No.

Imagine Olajuwon defending a pick and roll, getting switched to the point guard, and then making a recovery block after the pass to the roll-man.

Different tiers.


Just for fun sake. Could you make an argument for AD > Hakeem? Cause I'm down for a fun debate.


Better perimeter player as a face up. You could actually have him run the pick and roll as a ball-handler, as awkward that may be.

AD was a guard before he became a 5. Some of that guard mentality/skill set retained. Better shooter from the perimeter? AD. Better player? Olajuwon is 1-2 tiers better in the post and defensively.


How much of that analysis holds if you only consider Hakeem through his year 26 season?


All of it. Any Laker fan around for the 86 season should know Dream was tiers better by year two.

I’m dying laughing at folks questioning if Dream could defend on the perimeter today. He had elite footspeed and quickness. He was an athletic freak. He and David Robinson were built to play in this era.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 31259

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject:

I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 3658

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great

he does. this is his first time playing on a contender.
he has stated a goal of getting ft% to 85. this is not just for fts....if he does that, he will be a deadly shooter. he can beat giannis for mvp, its possible. giannis will probably never shoot as well as AD, but he will have certain physical advantages. I am terribly excited to see how AD the laker will play. if kawhi didnt snag PG, I'd have no worries about the ring.
_________________
U+1F49C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Luminous8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:09 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great


I honestly took you to be much older tbh. My memories come from mid 90s though I do have vague recollections from early 90s hoops. Dream is my favorite center ever though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 31259

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:15 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great

he does. this is his first time playing on a contender.
he has stated a goal of getting ft% to 85. this is not just for fts....if he does that, he will be a deadly shooter. he can beat giannis for mvp, its possible. giannis will probably never shoot as well as AD, but he will have certain physical advantages. I am terribly excited to see how AD the laker will play. if kawhi didnt snag PG, I'd have no worries about the ring.


he's still expanding his game too. his ball handling has taken a huge leap and he's got a chance to be one of the absolute most dynamic offensive players in the league, outside-in or however
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 31259

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game. still marveling at that wrong foot block by Hakeem. Never ever watched him; don't have basketball memories before the late 90s.. cool to hear he was that great


I honestly took you to be much older tbh. My memories come from mid 90s though I do have vague recollections from early 90s hoops. Dream is my favorite center ever though.


haha yea I'm just a bit after you. wish i could have watched Hakeem. I really think AD working with him would help his game. AD is one of the only bigs with the handling combined with the athleticism and finishing - to connect the ball handling to the post move like Hakeem did
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LandsbergerRules
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 9223
Location: The Other Perspective

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I think AD still has another level to turn up his game.



_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB