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Kobesystem
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 Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
135
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Pullin' 3's
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Joined: 25 Jun 2017
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | Kobe: "i'll give you my load to manage" |
Is that what told old girl in Colorado? |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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It is also science based that if you load manage your car by not driving to work one day a week extends it’s expected life span.
Whether you can or not depends on what your options are when you don’t.
Players get paid to play. If not injured or sick why wouldn’t they play? The argument is where the sweet spot or crossing the line of the benefits of rest are outweighed by the losses over the course of a season.
IMO load management for old guys should be less mpg or retirement. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | It is also science based that if you load manage your car by not driving to work one day a week extends it’s expected life span. |
'
Is there really science that suggests that not driving your car to work one day a week extends its life span? I'm not sure about that. But even if that is true, it's missing a key point when compared to load management. Extending a player's career is only one point. Another is making the player more effective and productive overall. I don't see that being the case with a car, so the analogy falls flat for me.
| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | Players get paid to play. If not injured or sick why wouldn’t they play? |
Because by not playing some games, their overall impact is higher, the theory goes. It's the same reason that players don't play 48 minutes every game -- teams have learned that's counterproductive.
| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | The argument is where the sweet spot or crossing the line of the benefits of rest are outweighed by the losses over the course of a season. |
Well, sure, that is the crux of the argument. Where is the line. That's where you need to look at the data and science. However the data and science is still evolving so people are experimenting and trying to figure it out.
| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | IMO load management for old guys should be less mpg or retirement. |
So what is the data and science that supports your opinion that playing fewer minutes per game is better than other strategies for reducing wear and tear on the body? If all you're doing is making a guess, that really isn't of any value.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
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The instant someone starts analogizing professional athletes to office workers, I know I am in the presence of someone who has completely missed the point. |
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Fans spend a lot of money to see the stars perform, Maybe they should try ‘load management’ also, maybe teams will have to end up giving discounts on certain games...this will all head to this sort of direction |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Goldenwest wrote: | | Fans spend a lot of money to see the stars perform, Maybe they should try ‘load management’ also, maybe teams will have to end up giving discounts on certain games...this will all head to this sort of direction |
That's a different but important point. If load management becomes common, will fans who pay high prices to go games complain so much that the NBA has to do something.
However, that's a business issue, not a performance/winning issue. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | When that duty includes playing against the last place team in January but being unable to play in the playoffs you aren’t doing the fans any favors. The science is out there, fans accept that the world isn’t flat, maybe they should accept that rest when the body reaches a breaking point is a good thing. |
LG without VLF would be super!!!! |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
135 |
(bleep) alert |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys. |
Guys like Kobe took on the challenge of getting through the entire season. They trained for it and prepared for it. It was something every player had to go through.
Once you allow one player to take games off they gain a competitive advantage over other players. Then we see the league get into the situation it's in now where every team starts resting their stars, because why should the other team have an advantage?
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys. |
Guys like Kobe took on the challenge of getting through the entire season. They trained for it and prepared for it. It was something every player had to go through.
Once you allow one player to take games off they gain a competitive advantage over other players. Then we see the league get into the situation it's in now where every team starts resting their stars, because why should the other team have an advantage?
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
Why are you assuming that players today aren't also training for playing a full season? It's incredible how skewed and presumptive these takes tend to be from people on that side of the issue. Totally close-minded and unwilling to listen to the reasoning. This isn't about anything other than GETTING THE MOST OUT OF THE PLAYERS AND ENSURING THEIR LONGEVITY. That's it. That's all. What players did in previous generations before we understood the science and the data about this shouldn't be the blueprint. This is about taking a step forward.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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3baller
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Why not just announce the dates when superstars will be load managing before the season starts? And cap it to perhaps 8 games a season(10%) per player. Don't allow changes midseason.
That way, it's gonna be up to the management whether they would allow their stars to rest or not in exchange of possible loss of ticket revenue.
Not gonna happen I'm sure but this would be fair to players playing heavy minutes as they won't have to play the full season if management allows and customers would be able to make sure that their favorite players would be playing in the games that they buy tickets for barring injury or other unforseen circumstance. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys. |
Guys like Kobe took on the challenge of getting through the entire season. They trained for it and prepared for it. It was something every player had to go through.
Once you allow one player to take games off they gain a competitive advantage over other players. Then we see the league get into the situation it's in now where every team starts resting their stars, because why should the other team have an advantage?
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
Using Kobe as the barometer for what others should do is not realistic. He often played injured. Playing an entire regular season is not an ends; it is just a means to getting to the end (championship). If saving yourself for 15-20 games means that you will be 100% for a championship run, I'm all for that.
Or would you have wanted Kawhi (if you were the Raptors) to play all 82 games and break down by the playoffs?
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: |
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
Stern fined the Spurs almost a decade ago for keeping four players out of a nationally televised game, and there was a lot of criticism and debate over it at the time.
Today, players are developing load management programs with the assistance of doctors, nutritionists, and physical therapists. Completely different world.
Don't see this as being something that the NBA can dictate by fiat anymore. And the reality is they don't. There are a lot of rules around load management. It isn't as haphazard and random as a lot of fans seem to think it is. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: |
Why are you assuming that players today aren't also training for playing a full season? It's incredible how skewed and presumptive these takes tend to be from people on that side of the issue. Totally close-minded and unwilling to listen to the reasoning. This isn't about anything other than GETTING THE MOST OUT OF THE PLAYERS AND ENSURING THEIR LONGEVITY. That's it. That's all. What players did in previous generations before we understood the science and the data about this shouldn't be the blueprint. This is about taking a step forward. |
It's pretty clear from this thread that a lot of fans don't understand what load management is, even on a basic level. They equate it with a player waking up and saying, "I don't feel like going to practice," and going back to sleep. |
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys. |
Guys like Kobe took on the challenge of getting through the entire season. They trained for it and prepared for it. It was something every player had to go through.
Once you allow one player to take games off they gain a competitive advantage over other players. Then we see the league get into the situation it's in now where every team starts resting their stars, because why should the other team have an advantage?
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
Using Kobe as the barometer for what others should do is not realistic. He often played injured. Playing an entire regular season is not an ends; it is just a means to getting to the end (championship). If saving yourself for 15-20 games means that you will be 100% for a championship run, I'm all for that.
Or would you have wanted Kawhi (if you were the Raptors) to play all 82 games and break down by the playoffs? |
Kawhi has a degenerative injury, and was still hobbling around in the finals after all that load management. We should all be very much in favor of athletes intelligently managing their bodies, but I've yet to see any science that says sitting out a quarter of the season will have a significant benefit in June. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
its going to be a lot. but thats going to be the norm for most stars moving forward. the precedent has been set.
it will be even worse if we get injured and it seems like the ring or playoff hope is gone. then they will need to rest the stars, which will come in the form of various groin injuries or whatever. |
The trouble with this whole thread is that a lot of people just seem to think that "load management" is players being lazy or not wanting to work hard.
At its heart, load management is a science-based strategy for maximizing performance and effectiveness.
But it seems a lot of fans can't grasp the concept that having players play less can be beneficial for the team. Even Kobe and other former NBA stars don't seem able to grasp that concept. |
Bingo. People equate their sedentary desk job with these athletes.
Each athlete has so many jump shots, dunks, sprints in their bodies. To say that every regular season game should be treated the same as Game 7 in the Finals is a fallacy.
Play smarter, not harder. In fact, by playing smarter, you will be able to play harder when it matters. Kawhi is the most recent example of that. Missing 20+ regular season games so he can go all out for the same number of playoff games was smart.
We should employ the same concept for our top guys. |
Guys like Kobe took on the challenge of getting through the entire season. They trained for it and prepared for it. It was something every player had to go through.
Once you allow one player to take games off they gain a competitive advantage over other players. Then we see the league get into the situation it's in now where every team starts resting their stars, because why should the other team have an advantage?
Silver is a soft, player friendly commissioner. When they did this under Stern he nipped it in the bud and fined teams. When it comes to load management it's all or none. Silver has decided it's not a battle he wants to fight. |
Using Kobe as the barometer for what others should do is not realistic. He often played injured. Playing an entire regular season is not an ends; it is just a means to getting to the end (championship). If saving yourself for 15-20 games means that you will be 100% for a championship run, I'm all for that.
Or would you have wanted Kawhi (if you were the Raptors) to play all 82 games and break down by the playoffs? |
Kawhi has a degenerative injury, and was still hobbling around in the finals after all that load management. We should all be very much in favor of athletes intelligently managing their bodies, but I've yet to see any science that says sitting out a quarter of the season will have a significant benefit in June. |
ah i see what the debate here is. it's not that these current stars and their reasons for load management are not valid. what is the root of these arguments is stuff like when we start comparing these guys doing load management, to previous era guys who didnt do that, like kobe. so now, the stat heads are going to throw efficiency numbers around and use these to do the debates around "who is better". and the problem with load management is that these new guys have the privileged now to ONLY play when everything is very optimal for them, so they can really get those stats they like. SO they will play fewer minutes and always play not very tired (see lebron), and any little injury will be treated very conservatively and use the KD argument to not be more aggressive, etc.
It's not that anyone is right or wrong. The problem is the comparison to previous era guys who didnt have the luxury to just rest whenever they wanted. These new superstars are very coddled in that regard. the impact of load management (to us fans) is going to be very unspectacular basketball by these stars compared to the previous era ones. they are getting paid waaaaay too much and have way to much power and political control to even have the motivation to do anything that will (in their minds) risk injury or stats. i personally hate this idea of efficiency obsession that has crept into the nba world. people think efficiency or some form of it is the end all be all to great basketball. real basketball doesnt give a flying F--- about efficiency. its not that kind of game. but the stats are heavily incentivized now, unfortunately, and there is no turning back. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: |
ah i see what the debate here is. it's not that these current stars and their reasons for load management are not valid. what is the root of these arguments is stuff like when we start comparing these guys doing load management, to previous era guys who didnt do that, like kobe. so now, the stat heads are going to throw efficiency numbers around and use these to do the debates around "who is better". |
So your takeaway is that people are thinking: "I want load management to catch on so Zion Williamson will have a highly efficient career and 15 years from now I can go on Lakerground and use that to argue that he's better than Tim Duncan, because that's super super super important to me."
Your mind goes down weird corridors, Superboy 
Last edited by activeverb on Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
135 |
Now do the clippers duo. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38775
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Unfortunately, load management is making its way into the NFL these days as well as evidenced by the Rams holding back Todd Gurley. The thinking is that a player has certain number of minutes they can play to maximize their longevity....sucks for fans of sports, but I guess thats the way it goes. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Kobesystem wrote: | | Whats the over/under on how many games both LBJ and AD will play next season? |
135 |
Now do the clippers duo. |
Lol, yeah let's hear it, VLF.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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