Kobe Bean Bryant on “load management”
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
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Ehh. Regardless, without our support of their product they have no job. I believe in having a duty to the fans if you’re an athlete. Still seems pretty simple to me.


Unless fans like you are willing to boycott the sport over this en masse (and you're not) it's a moot point.


No it isn’t. It’s a philosophical one


In other words: it's meaningless. They don't owe you anything. Try organizing a boycott if it bothers you that much and see how many you can convince to join you. You'll be able to fit all of you in a minivan.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:52 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
When that duty includes playing against the last place team in January but being unable to play in the playoffs you aren’t doing the fans any favors. The science is out there, fans accept that the world isn’t flat, maybe they should accept that rest when the body reaches a breaking point is a good thing.


And just how many players overall miss the playoffs because of those January games?? There’s no proof whatsoever that an injury will be avoided by load management. It’s an educated guess, at best.
Meanwhile, the overall product suffers undeniably


Last edited by LaLaLakeShow on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
ocho wrote:
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Ehh. Regardless, without our support of their product they have no job. I believe in having a duty to the fans if you’re an athlete. Still seems pretty simple to me.


Unless fans like you are willing to boycott the sport over this en masse (and you're not) it's a moot point.


No it isn’t. It’s a philosophical one


In other words: it's meaningless. They don't owe you anything. Try organizing a boycott if it bothers you that much and see how many you can convince to join you. You'll be able to fit all of you in a minivan.


Guess I can’t voice an opinion with you around. Thanks for letting me know.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Kobe vs MJ story from Gilbert Arenas: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2852062-gilbert-arenas-michael-jordan-told-kobe-bryant-hed-never-fill-his-shoes-in-03?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject:

For anyone that feels the competition in the NBA is tougher now, or that us old fogies won't let go of the past, here ya go! Tim Duncan and Kobe are the last of the Mohicans from that generation. I hate to say it, because I hate calling another man soft, but a lot of the players now are spoiled rotten.


Marvelous Marvin Hagler once said: "'It's real hard to get up at 5am & run 5 miles when you're in a 4 post bed wearing silk pajamas'
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject:

Kobe is correct.

Larry Johnson (the football player) is not wrong about all sports even if his message may get lost in translation and comes off as polarizing.

Must be nice making millions playing half a season or part-time.
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LaLaLakeShow
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Kobe is correct.

Larry Johnson (the football player) is not wrong about all sports even if his message may get lost in translation and comes off as polarizing.


Absolutely
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
The correct answer here is to reduce the length of the season. Then you'll see guys play every game, play harder because the games will mean more, and less injuries ruining the postseason. The end result is a better overall product delivered to the fans. But the NBA won't do that because they lose revenue, though people have laid out plenty of ways they could make up for it with the play-in tournament for the last two seeds, among other ideas.

So blame the league, not the players and coahces who are just trying to do the smart thing to maximize their careers and championship chances, is my thinking.



I don't buy this argument. They have been playing an 82 game season since 1967-1968 season and those players were paid far less than what NBA players are earning today not to mention they had to fly in commercial. And they only recently expanded the first round of playoff games from best of 5 to best of 7. Don't forget players today get the benefit of advances in sports medicine while back in the day they didn't have any such knowledge.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
The correct answer here is to reduce the length of the season. Then you'll see guys play every game, play harder because the games will mean more, and less injuries ruining the postseason. The end result is a better overall product delivered to the fans. But the NBA won't do that because they lose revenue, though people have laid out plenty of ways they could make up for it with the play-in tournament for the last two seeds, among other ideas.

So blame the league, not the players and coahces who are just trying to do the smart thing to maximize their careers and championship chances, is my thinking.



I don't buy this argument. They have been playing an 82 game season since 1967-1968 season and those players were paid far less than what NBA players are earning today not to mention they had to fly in commercial. And they only recently expanded the first round of playoff games from best of 5 to best of 7. Don't forget players today get the benefit of advances in sports medicine while back in the day they didn't have any such knowledge.


For real. What would be the point of players on a team like Phoenix to play any games then? I mean, playoffs Right?? Gotta be fresh for the playoffs! Just play the Freaking games.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
For anyone that feels the competition in the NBA is tougher now, or that us old fogies won't let go of the past, here ya go! Tim Duncan and Kobe are the last of the Mohicans from that generation. I hate to say it, because I hate calling another man soft, but a lot of the players now are spoiled rotten.


Marvelous Marvin Hagler once said: "'It's real hard to get up at 5am & run 5 miles when you're in a 4 post bed wearing silk pajamas'


Pop basically pioneered load management when TD, Manu, and Parker got old. Duncan is frankly not in Kobe's level when it comes to toughness.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject:

If the fans become annoyed with "load management" and decide they don't like the sport as much - the TV revenue can eventually drop and players have less money - , so he's correct, although he didn't touch on that point.

Last edited by lakers0505 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
The correct answer here is to reduce the length of the season. Then you'll see guys play every game, play harder because the games will mean more, and less injuries ruining the postseason. The end result is a better overall product delivered to the fans. But the NBA won't do that because they lose revenue, though people have laid out plenty of ways they could make up for it with the play-in tournament for the last two seeds, among other ideas.

So blame the league, not the players and coahces who are just trying to do the smart thing to maximize their careers and championship chances, is my thinking.



I don't buy this argument. They have been playing an 82 game season since 1967-1968 season and those players were paid far less than what NBA players are earning today not to mention they had to fly in commercial. And they only recently expanded the first round of playoff games from best of 5 to best of 7. Don't forget players today get the benefit of advances in sports medicine while back in the day they didn't have any such knowledge.


And part of sports medicine for some teams are biometric monitoring and resting when the body fatigues.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
kwase wrote:
For anyone that feels the competition in the NBA is tougher now, or that us old fogies won't let go of the past, here ya go! Tim Duncan and Kobe are the last of the Mohicans from that generation. I hate to say it, because I hate calling another man soft, but a lot of the players now are spoiled rotten.


Marvelous Marvin Hagler once said: "'It's real hard to get up at 5am & run 5 miles when you're in a 4 post bed wearing silk pajamas'


Pop basically pioneered load management when TD, Manu, and Parker got old. Duncan is frankly not in Kobe's level when it comes to toughness.


Who is, really?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
The correct answer here is to reduce the length of the season. Then you'll see guys play every game, play harder because the games will mean more, and less injuries ruining the postseason. The end result is a better overall product delivered to the fans. But the NBA won't do that because they lose revenue, though people have laid out plenty of ways they could make up for it with the play-in tournament for the last two seeds, among other ideas.

So blame the league, not the players and coahces who are just trying to do the smart thing to maximize their careers and championship chances, is my thinking.



I don't buy this argument. They have been playing an 82 game season since 1967-1968 season and those players were paid far less than what NBA players are earning today not to mention they had to fly in commercial. And they only recently expanded the first round of playoff games from best of 5 to best of 7. Don't forget players today get the benefit of advances in sports medicine while back in the day they didn't have any such knowledge.


There's the steroid/performance enhancing drug argument. Players now are heavier and have more muscle mass due to roids. Too much for their ligaments to handle.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
kwase wrote:
For anyone that feels the competition in the NBA is tougher now, or that us old fogies won't let go of the past, here ya go! Tim Duncan and Kobe are the last of the Mohicans from that generation. I hate to say it, because I hate calling another man soft, but a lot of the players now are spoiled rotten.


Marvelous Marvin Hagler once said: "'It's real hard to get up at 5am & run 5 miles when you're in a 4 post bed wearing silk pajamas'


Pop basically pioneered load management when TD, Manu, and Parker got old. Duncan is frankly not in Kobe's level when it comes to toughness.


Who is, really?


Bird.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:17 pm    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
If the fans become annoyed with "load management" and decide they don't like the sport as much - the TV revenue can eventually drop and players have less money - , so he's correct, although he didn't touch on that point.


Not that organizations rely on it as much these days, but I’m sure many are getting annoyed and frustrated paying for high priced tickets only to see that the stars are not playing.

Dynamic pricing, premium pricing, etc. It has to go both ways, people are going to wise up to $150 tickets to watch Troy Daniels and Jared Dudley.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject:

Instead of having a guy sit out due to load management, why not just play him less minutes?

Let's say it's midseason, and the medical staff is analyizing all the numbers that have to due with miles run and exertion and so on, and those numbers say that a player is at high risk of some type of injury due to overuse. Then just play that guy 20 minutes instead of 35 minutes for a few games. It doesn't even have to be consecutive games, maybe say 3 out of the next 5 games against weaker opponents.

I also think the NBA (and other sports) need to keep an open mind about PEDs. More research needs to be done into making them safe for use, but they do work and help althetes recover faster. Maybe research will uncover that PEDs could reduce the risk for injury.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject:

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Dynamic pricing, premium pricing, etc. It has to go both ways, people are going to wise up to $150 tickets to watch Troy Daniels and Jared Dudley.


I put down a deposit for season tickets this year. There are 4,700+ people ahead of me in line on the waitlist. We’ve been terrible for most of the last decade.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:12 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
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Dynamic pricing, premium pricing, etc. It has to go both ways, people are going to wise up to $150 tickets to watch Troy Daniels and Jared Dudley.


I put down a deposit for season tickets this year. There are 4,700+ people ahead of me in line on the waitlist. We’ve been terrible for most of the last decade.


Sure. Not counting season ticket holders as that is the commitment someone makes to guarantee access all season.

Secondary market will take a hit from continued “load management.”
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:33 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
ocho wrote:
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Dynamic pricing, premium pricing, etc. It has to go both ways, people are going to wise up to $150 tickets to watch Troy Daniels and Jared Dudley.


I put down a deposit for season tickets this year. There are 4,700+ people ahead of me in line on the waitlist. We’ve been terrible for most of the last decade.


Sure. Not counting season ticket holders as that is the commitment someone makes to guarantee access all season.

Secondary market will take a hit from continued “load management.”


Have you checked the secondary market lately? Prices are through the roof. I don't think this bothers most fans as much as you think it does. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we aren't load managing LeBron this year. At his age he should be taking periodic games off.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxLLV3zqB6Q

Youtube version, in case anyone cares.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Dynamic pricing, premium pricing, etc. It has to go both ways, people are going to wise up to $150 tickets to watch Troy Daniels and Jared Dudley.


I put down a deposit for season tickets this year. There are 4,700+ people ahead of me in line on the waitlist. We’ve been terrible for most of the last decade.


Sure. Not counting season ticket holders as that is the commitment someone makes to guarantee access all season.

Secondary market will take a hit from continued “load management.”


Have you checked the secondary market lately? Prices are through the roof. I don't think this bothers most fans as much as you think it does. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if we aren't load managing LeBron this year. At his age he should be taking periodic games off.


Yep that’s why I said if it continues. Load management is now a thing across the league and growing concern for Silver. People will eventually stop paying if this continues.

Should also be noted that the Lakers are a bit of a different beast being a premier franchise with a huge fan base. I still think though that buyers will adjust if Lebron/AD load manage but I don’t think those guys intend to miss many games.

Imo Lebron and AD are angry and ready to dominate. Lebron because of the washed up king talk and AD because people forgot he is a monster.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:05 pm    Post subject:

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Imo Lebron and AD are angry and ready to dominate. Lebron because of the washed up king talk and AD because people forgot he is a monster.


That's great, and they can achieve those goals while making sure they aren't run down by the end of the year. Especially LeBron who is no spring chicken. He's the same age Kobe was when his body fell apart.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:23 am    Post subject:

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Imo Lebron and AD are angry and ready to dominate. Lebron because of the washed up king talk and AD because people forgot he is a monster.


I have tempered expectations for the both of them. I do think Bron and AD have the mindset you are describing. But I'm not expecting that to lead to Kobe/Shaq level championship dominance. Hope I'm wrong. But I doubt I am. AD doesn't know what it takes to lead a team to the playoffs consistently. And Bron has never won a chip without a big 3.

I'm hoping for the best, but I'm keeping my expectations low. That way there is plenty of room for them to overachieve.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:22 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
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Imo Lebron and AD are angry and ready to dominate. Lebron because of the washed up king talk and AD because people forgot he is a monster.


I have tempered expectations for the both of them. I do think Bron and AD have the mindset you are describing. But I'm not expecting that to lead to Kobe/Shaq level championship dominance. Hope I'm wrong. But I doubt I am. AD doesn't know what it takes to lead a team to the playoffs consistently. And Bron has never won a chip without a big 3.

I'm hoping for the best, but I'm keeping my expectations low. That way there is plenty of room for them to overachieve.


I'm not sure I consider Love good enough to be part of a Big 3 when Bron won the title with Cleveland. I don't think Love was All-NBA or even an All-Star that year. It was more a Big 2 with Bron and Kyrie.
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