ESPN: There's a gap between Clippers and Lakers (Clipper/Laker Discussion)
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject:

The gap between Toronto without load management and the dippers is 4 games

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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
The gap between Toronto without load management and the dippers is 4 games



Kawhi can't win without a LOT of talent around him

Toronto was one hell of a squad last year, but of course it was Kawhi that brought them the championship
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
defense wrote:
The gap between Toronto without load management and the dippers is 4 games



Kawhi can't win without a LOT of talent around him

Toronto was one hell of a squad last year, but of course it was Kawhi that brought them the championship


Why does that matter? Not like the league is gonna spot us points in the playoffs because Kawhi has more help.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
drae wrote:
defense wrote:
The gap between Toronto without load management and the dippers is 4 games



Kawhi can't win without a LOT of talent around him

Toronto was one hell of a squad last year, but of course it was Kawhi that brought them the championship


Why does that matter? Not like the league is gonna spot us points in the playoffs because Kawhi has more help.


It matters to the Clippers. Ballmer was sold on a fake narrative that Kawhi can take them to the promised land.

Clipper fans will be in for a surprise come playoff time
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject:

I'm not sure if Ballmer cares one whit. At the end of the day the NBA is a business. Irrespective of whether the Clippers get to and/or win the finals it was the right business decision for them to chase - and get - Kawhi; it has catapulted them to eminence, made them the talk of the town, gained them immense exposure and amazing media buzz and will very likely result in a major boon to their bottom-line. They feature on national TV all the time and just about every broadcast/news-report features them. Plus strategically, this move sets them up for relevance for the next several years - they still have trade assets and their 2 superstars are still relatively young. With proper follow-up moves they should stay in the hunt AND in the limelight for several more years
If I were in his (Ballmer's) shoes I would do the same every day of the week and twice on a Sunday, he has played this like a savvy CEO and if he had a board, they would be quite pleased with his performance.

drae wrote:

<snip>
It matters to the Clippers. Ballmer was sold on a fake narrative that Kawhi can take them to the promised land.

Clipper fans will be in for a surprise come playoff time
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
I'm not sure if Ballmer agrees one whit. At the end of the day the NBA is a business. Irrespective of whether the Clippers get to and/or win the finals it was the right business decision for them to chase - and get - Kawhi; it has catapulted them to eminence, made them the talk of the town, gained them immense exposure and amazing media buzz and will very likely result in a major boon to their bottom-line. They feature on national TV all the time and just about every broadcast/news-report features them. Plus strategically, this move sets them up for relevance for the next several years - they still have trade assets and their 2 superstars are still relatively young. With proper follow-up moves they should stay in the hunt AND in the limelight for several more years
If I were in his (Ballmer's) shoes I would do the same every day of the week and twice on a Sunday, he has played this like a savvy CEO and if he had a board, they would be quite pleased with his performance.

drae wrote:

<snip>
It matters to the Clippers. Ballmer was sold on a fake narrative that Kawhi can take them to the promised land.

Clipper fans will be in for a surprise come playoff time


They've given up almost all their picks and almost all their young talent (besides Shamet). I don't think they have any trade assets.

And their two superstars can walk in a year and a half.

And Trez is unhappy so he probably leaves at the end of the season.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject:

One major gap between the Lakers and everyone else is they now lead the league in wins vs teams over .500. While Bucks have the best record (13-7), Lakers are currently a cozy 17-10.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:05 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
One major gap between the Lakers and everyone else is they now lead the league in wins vs teams over .500. While Bucks have the best record (13-7), Lakers are currently a cozy 17-10.


I think once we get payback against the bucks, 76ers and clips, this "can't beat best teams" narrative dies. We took care of the celtics game. 3 more teams to go.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
DrDent wrote:
One major gap between the Lakers and everyone else is they now lead the league in wins vs teams over .500. While Bucks have the best record (13-7), Lakers are currently a cozy 17-10.


I think once we get payback against the bucks, 76ers and clips, this "can't beat best teams" narrative dies. We took care of the celtics game. 3 more teams to go.


Beating the Bucks and Clips would be great. I'm not concerned with the Sixers. They are not elite and will get beat by the Bucks or Celts in a 7 game series.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:57 pm    Post subject:

Kawhi is great, and his playoff run last year was an all-timer, so I would still say he deserves a lion's share of the credit for the championship. But...the media severely underrated that supporting cast, and made it seem like it was all him, second coming of MJ/Kobe, about to steal Lebron's throne, yada yada.

Bottom line is he doesn't get that ring without the near perfect roster construction around him put together by Masai. And he damn sure doesn't get it without the Warriors finally breaking after Lebron ran into them for years during their peak when they were indestructible. So yes, he gets props for a brilliant postseason and of course the ring counts, but he isn't all of a sudden this automatic shoo in to the Finals every year as long as you give him a solid enough roster, which is what he's painted as now. Last year was a perfect storm until proven otherwise.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
epic_ wrote:
DrDent wrote:
One major gap between the Lakers and everyone else is they now lead the league in wins vs teams over .500. While Bucks have the best record (13-7), Lakers are currently a cozy 17-10.


I think once we get payback against the bucks, 76ers and clips, this "can't beat best teams" narrative dies. We took care of the celtics game. 3 more teams to go.


Beating the Bucks and Clips would be great. I'm not concerned with the Sixers. They are not elite and will get beat by the Bucks or Celts in a 7 game series.


Very possible.
Still would be nice to beat em.
I also forgot about the raptors.

Raptors, Bucks, Clippers and 76ers receipts.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:38 am    Post subject:

Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521

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alleyoop
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:28 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
epic_ wrote:
DrDent wrote:
One major gap between the Lakers and everyone else is they now lead the league in wins vs teams over .500. While Bucks have the best record (13-7), Lakers are currently a cozy 17-10.


I think once we get payback against the bucks, 76ers and clips, this "can't beat best teams" narrative dies. We took care of the celtics game. 3 more teams to go.


Beating the Bucks and Clips would be great. I'm not concerned with the Sixers. They are not elite and will get beat by the Bucks or Celts in a 7 game series.


Very possible.
Still would be nice to beat em.
I also forgot about the raptors.

Raptors, Bucks, Clippers and 76ers receipts.


Yeah, it wouldn't hurt. I'm also feeling the Raptors are back to being the regular season wonders that they used to be when Demar was there. Unless the current crew shows they are more ready for the postseason than those Derozan/Lowry-led teams were. It'll come down to the Bucks and the Celts back east (barring some major injury).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:44 am    Post subject:

By "trade" assets I meant assets that are attractive to other teams and have reasonable contracts, thus affording the Clippers *some* flexibility in the next couple of years - despite having no picks and no cap room (and even ignoring sign-and-trades with upcoming free-agents):
e.g. Shamet, Lou, Beverly


The other problems you mention (Trez, Morris, stars walking away) are part of running an NBA franchise, which team is immune to them? Neither takes away from my point- the Kawhi move was a good business move and if they continue to manage risk/exposure, they could maintain their momentum for the coming years.
I'm not seeing how their Kawhi acquisition has been disappointing or unwise.

drae wrote:


They've given up almost all their picks and almost all their young talent (besides Shamet). I don't think they have any trade assets.

And their two superstars can walk in a year and a half.

And Trez is unhappy so he probably leaves at the end of the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject:

alleyoop wrote:
drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely


lol listened this morning and had that same thought, you're trying to jinx us. I do think he's right about the Clippers. George has had hammy issues all season and hamstring injuries basically don't go away unless you shut down for like a month. And then even if you think it's gone, you're playing like you could pull it again at any moment.

And while I still think Marcus Morris could be good for them, Reggie Jackson won't play a single minute in the playoffs. Just too much ball-stopping on that offense now. But yeah, good job signing with them, Reggie. Lol.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
By "trade" assets I meant assets that are attractive to other teams and have reasonable contracts, thus affording the Clippers *some* flexibility in the next couple of years - despite having no picks and no cap room (and even ignoring sign-and-trades with upcoming free-agents):
e.g. Shamet, Lou, Beverly


Lou Williams is 34 years old this year. No team is trading for him. Pat Beverley is 32 years old this year and few teams will trade for him. The only attractive asset they have to trade is Shamet.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject:

I don't agree. Their contracts are inoffensive - they can serve as salary ballast in opportunistic trades. While Shamet is the glittering diamond-in-the-rough - the other two are tools that can enable trades.

drae wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
By "trade" assets I meant assets that are attractive to other teams and have reasonable contracts, thus affording the Clippers *some* flexibility in the next couple of years - despite having no picks and no cap room (and even ignoring sign-and-trades with upcoming free-agents):
e.g. Shamet, Lou, Beverly


Lou Williams is 34 years old this year. No team is trading for him. Pat Beverley is 32 years old this year and few teams will trade for him. The only attractive asset they have to trade is Shamet.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
I don't agree. Their contracts are inoffensive - they can serve as salary ballast in opportunistic trades. While Shamet is the glittering diamond-in-the-rough - the other two are tools that can enable trades.

drae wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
By "trade" assets I meant assets that are attractive to other teams and have reasonable contracts, thus affording the Clippers *some* flexibility in the next couple of years - despite having no picks and no cap room (and even ignoring sign-and-trades with upcoming free-agents):
e.g. Shamet, Lou, Beverly


Lou Williams is 34 years old this year. No team is trading for him. Pat Beverley is 32 years old this year and few teams will trade for him. The only attractive asset they have to trade is Shamet.


I mean there's a "possibility" they could trade those guys sure but there value is all low when you consider the Clippers are in all out win now mode.. I don't see any of those guys really bringing back the clear better player. Nobody is giving much up for Beverly, even contenders. Most contenders would obviously love to have Lou on there roster but he's towards the end of his career and an extreme defensive liability, I can't see the Clippers getting any kind of worthwhile return that actually makes them better?

Shamet is a mediocre prospect that can def. shoot the 3 but if that's not falling he's nothing special and has clear injury concerns going back to college so without adding a pick or another solid player what are they really going to get back for him?

Harrell is unrestricted and hasn't been too happy so I doubt they can get a s&t done which I think would be there best asset.

It looks pretty bare to me? If you start looking to add Lou with Shamet you better get a really good fit back because Lou has been the clear second best player behind Kawhi this season since George is so unreliable. Without him they are probably in the lottery right now.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject:

alleyoop wrote:
drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely


BUCK FILL SIMMONS!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
alleyoop wrote:
drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely


BUCK FILL SIMMONS!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
pio2u wrote:
alleyoop wrote:
drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely


BUCK FILL SIMMONS!


And the horse he rode in on.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
pio2u wrote:
alleyoop wrote:
drae wrote:
Anyone listen to the Bill Simmons podcast?

I don't think it's close. I don't care how good Kawhi was last year and I don't care how good he can be game to game. To me it's not close, I think the Lakers are just better right now.

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1231844098887147521


Bill has to be trying to jinx us, there's no way he'd say that otherwise, surely


BUCK FILL SIMMONS!


And the horse he rode in on.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject:

I would be more concerned with Portland as an eighth seed.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I am more concerned with Portland as an eighth seed.


The Pelicans are more scary imo. The only thing they don’t have is the experience.

With the Blazers it’s more of just don’t let Dame go for 60.

Memphis is the ideal matchup out of the 3.
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