I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

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It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Vogel is not the most eloquent speaker and he strikes me as a big talker, which I don't like. Talking about how people coming to LA getting hit and bumped. OK guy, just speak softly and carry a big stick.

But in any case, Vogel's main point here was to NOT play Rondo and LeBron together, which was amongst Luke's biggest mistakes (and there were tons).

Yes, he contradicts himself by saying, "playing tons" together, but that's not what he meant.

And he never said he would give Rondo a lot of playing time. The only thing he mentioned was that they wouldn't be on the court together.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject:

I think we should afford Vogel some games before the pitchforks come out, though I agree this (plus his comment suggesting Rondo is a floor spacer) does not inspire confidence. It’s quite possible he’s playing politics.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Firing Vogel gets you Coach Kidd.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject:

Can we at least wait for the Lakers to lose a game before we start talk about firing people?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
I think we should afford Vogel some games before the pitchforks come out, though I agree this (plus his comment suggesting Rondo is a floor spacer) does not inspire confidence. It’s quite possible he’s playing politics.


Playing politics on a team that is title or bust? Ugh. Not again. Not another horribly coached team again.

I don’t know if it’s ironic or a coincidence, but a lineup of Caruso-Green-Lebron-Kuzma-AD (or AD-Howard, whatever you want to do) would be a perfect Triangle offensive lineup since Phil Jackson retired. Doubt we will ever see it though.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject:

I do hope GT goes after Vogel for that quote and questions him next time he’s there. Or at least on Twitter now that he has a following.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Can people not over react to quotes and let the man do his job ?!?
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
Can people not over react to quotes and let the man do his job ?!?


Do people’s posts/reactions somehow interfere with his job?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think we should afford Vogel some games before the pitchforks come out, though I agree this (plus his comment suggesting Rondo is a floor spacer) does not inspire confidence. It’s quite possible he’s playing politics.


Playing politics on a team that is title or bust? Ugh. Not again. Not another horribly coached team again.

I don’t know if it’s ironic or a coincidence, but a lineup of Caruso-Green-Lebron-Kuzma-AD (or AD-Howard, whatever you want to do) would be a perfect Triangle offensive lineup since Phil Jackson retired. Doubt we will ever see it though.


It’s training camp. Everybody looks great. Everyone lost 20-30 pounds. Everyone is a leader, is focused, is on a mission, etc. He has to say the things, so I’ll give him a few games before burying him. If he starts Rondo or plays him big minutes we’ll know quickly what kind of coach we have.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:07 pm    Post subject:

I'm thinking they will be "staggered" more than they will be on the floor together.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Megaton wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think we should afford Vogel some games before the pitchforks come out, though I agree this (plus his comment suggesting Rondo is a floor spacer) does not inspire confidence. It’s quite possible he’s playing politics.


Playing politics on a team that is title or bust? Ugh. Not again. Not another horribly coached team again.

I don’t know if it’s ironic or a coincidence, but a lineup of Caruso-Green-Lebron-Kuzma-AD (or AD-Howard, whatever you want to do) would be a perfect Triangle offensive lineup since Phil Jackson retired. Doubt we will ever see it though.


It’s training camp. Everybody looks great. Everyone lost 20-30 pounds. Everyone is a leader, is focused, is on a mission, etc. He has to say the things, so I’ll give him a few games before burying him. If he starts Rondo or plays him big minutes we’ll know quickly what kind of coach we have.


Like I said, I’m only “almost” on the fire train.

Hearing that quote triggered me big time though, not gonna lie.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.



Is my reading comprehension off?
I thought Frank was going to stagger them, so it's either Lebron in or Rondo in. Not sure why you're saying staggering means they're playing together.

Again, maybe my reading is off. I'm also in a weird state of mind as the Dodgers won, which is fantastic. But the Rams lost on a missed FG So excuse me if I'm off.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

epak wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.



Is my reading comprehension off?
I thought Frank was going to stagger them, so it's either Lebron in or Rondo in. Not sure why you're saying staggering means they're playing together.

Again, maybe my reading is off. I'm also in a weird state of mind as the Dodgers won, which is fantastic. But the Rams lost on a missed FG So excuse me if I'm off.

"they're going to play a ton together as well"

I wish the Lakers just didnt resign him at all
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

audioaxes wrote:
epak wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.



Is my reading comprehension off?
I thought Frank was going to stagger them, so it's either Lebron in or Rondo in. Not sure why you're saying staggering means they're playing together.

Again, maybe my reading is off. I'm also in a weird state of mind as the Dodgers won, which is fantastic. But the Rams lost on a missed FG So excuse me if I'm off.

"they're going to play a ton together as well"

I wish the Lakers just didnt resign him at all


My reading comprehension was indeed off.
Although, that sounds like a throw-in phrase just to cover his bases when they do share the floor. He seems to be making a point of the staggered lineup though, especially as he mentions it twice.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.


WOW! really? you a coach? you at the practices? you have inside info on what is happening at the Lakers training camp?

Do ya? Or is this just some overblown reaction of a non-basketball mind?

Here, I'll help, but you are going to have to couch some of your Rondo hatred for it to sink in...

Saying Rondo is the (quote) "statistically the worst point guard in the league last season" might be a slightly uneducated statement. Rondo is a PG and best PG's get lots of Assists (which is a statistic, right?). Well, this might go against your rant, but Rondo averaged the 8th highest assists per game (APG) in the NBA!

And would it further surprise you to learn that Rondo averaged MORE APG than Harden, Fox, D. Russel, Kyrie Irving, Kimba Walker, Lilliard, Ben Simmons, Jrue Holiday and a ton of other PGs?

There is a stat named "Assists" and Rondo is pretty good at getting them when he is the PG, for 10 of his seasons (including last year) he has averaged 8 or more per game, for 5 of those years he was in double digits, a couple of years ago he had 21 Assists (in a Pelicans game), now keep this in mind and we'll come back to it...

LeBron averaged nearly 8.5 Assists per game last season, because when he is on the floor, he is effectively the PG (Rondo's position), if you have LeBron on the floor playing the PG, at the same time as Rondo, then Rondo becomes quite useless (I'm sure you'll easily agree with that!).

So, if you STAGGER (that means NOT play them together) LeBron and Rondo's minutes, Ronda can be the PG with the Bench guys, getting Kuz and Howard (of McGee) the ball so they can make a basket and give him an Assist.

So the Coach is right! and I'm gonna need for you to apologize and drink your Bosco. Then remain calm and watch the games, you'll see that the guys that are paid to make the roster decisions at work and you can worry about other important things, like who has better tacos.. Del Taco or Taco Bell?...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:19 pm    Post subject:

With Kuzma out for a bit we might see Lebron play some 4 which is the only time Rondo and Lebron on the court together makes sense with shooters at the other two spots and AD at center
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

unleasHell wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.


WOW! really? you a coach? you at the practices? you have inside info on what is happening at the Lakers training camp?

Do ya? Or is this just some overblown reaction of a non-basketball mind?

Here, I'll help, but you are going to have to couch some of your Rondo hatred for it to sink in...

Saying Rondo is the (quote) "statistically the worst point guard in the league last season" might be a slightly uneducated statement. Rondo is a PG and best PG's get lots of Assists (which is a statistic, right?). Well, this might go against your rant, but Rondo averaged the 8th highest assists per game (APG) in the NBA!

And would it further surprise you to learn that Rondo averaged MORE APG than Harden, Fox, D. Russel, Kyrie Irving, Kimba Walker, Lilliard, Ben Simmons, Jrue Holiday and a ton of other PGs?

There is a stat named "Assists" and Rondo is pretty good at getting them when he is the PG, for 10 of his seasons (including last year) he has averaged 8 or more per game, for 5 of those years he was in double digits, a couple of years ago he had 21 Assists (in a Pelicans game), now keep this in mind and we'll come back to it...

LeBron averaged nearly 8.5 Assists per game last season, because when he is on the floor, he is effectively the PG (Rondo's position), if you have LeBron on the floor playing the PG, at the same time as Rondo, then Rondo becomes quite useless (I'm sure you'll easily agree with that!).

So, if you STAGGER (that means NOT play them together) LeBron and Rondo's minutes, Ronda can be the PG with the Bench guys, getting Kuz and Howard (of McGee) the ball so they can make a basket and give him an Assist.

So the Coach is right! and I'm gonna need for you to apologize and drink your Bosco. Then remain calm and watch the games, you'll see that the guys that are paid to make the roster decisions at work and you can worry about other important things, like who has better tacos.. Del Taco or Taco Bell?...


I agree this is an absurd knee jerk reaction post. At this time Vogel is just testing different guys in different situations, and it may change after the season starts. Nothing is written in stone and the competition will dictate which teams are the best.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:08 pm    Post subject:

Maybe this could go in the Vogel thread?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:29 pm    Post subject:

eh someone like Rondo who is a veteran leader and extremely respected by Lebron and AD causes him to be cautious and careful in what he says no matter what he is really thinking. He might fully be planning on doing that for all we know but all we've heard is how he is preaching defense first and everyone has been surprised how good Bradley has been on that side of the ball before this quote. I'd be shocked tbh if Rondo starts unless he magically turns into full time playoff Rondo from a few years ago which isn't happening.

Rondo is getting older and cant play heavy minutes regardless anyways but as much as i'd like to see Caruso in there more he's still completely an unproven for the most part so he has to snatch that playing time from Rondo which I hope and think he can do. Just like how I think signing Dwight is going to maximize McGee I think the same is going to happen among Bradley, Rondo and Caruso.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Maybe this could go in the Vogel thread?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:55 am    Post subject:

I'm not as down on Rondo as alot of LG is. I think he can run a scary effective pick and roll/pop with Brow. And in the playoffs I think he'll show up big time.

What's worrying about the quote though is the offensive system. Whether Rondo's running point or LBJ, we're gonna have a predictable offense with not a ton of passes per possession. It can still work. HOU ran a similar system last year and they played well up until the GS series. Floor spacers are just gonna have to hit their 3s though. And we'll need to turn defense into offense efficiently.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:06 am    Post subject:

What do you mean? He is completely right in everything he is saying. You might not understand what he is doing, he is setting the rules publicly.. this will help keeing some players in check.


I was thinking of what he is doing and im impress.

PG.Bradley
SG.KCP
SF.LeBron
PF.Davis
C.Mcgee

PG.Rondo
SG.Daniels
SF.Green
PF.Kuzma
C.Dwight


By looking at the scrimmages i believe thats his plan. Rondo surrounded by a pick and roll big and a BUNCH of shooters. We need rondos playmaking because lebron can not dribble for 48 mins so we need to separate their PT.


Did you see the numbers when Lebron and rondo share the floor?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:17 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
I'm thinking they will be "staggered" more than they will be on the floor together.


This was my thought as well. not another playmaking option on the team so Rondo and James probably shouldn’t share the court much, which is a good thing if you are anti-rondo seeing that James will get 36 min+ a night.

I also hope this translates to a lot of Avery Bradley who actually should start and set the tone on defense right from the jump.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:20 am    Post subject:

scout0_0 wrote:
What do you mean? He is completely right in everything he is saying. You might not understand what he is doing, he is setting the rules publicly.. this will help keeing some players in check.


I was thinking of what he is doing and im impress.

PG.Bradley
SG.KCP
SF.LeBron
PF.Davis
C.Mcgee

PG.Rondo
SG.Daniels
SF.Green
PF.Kuzma
C.Dwight


By looking at the scrimmages i believe thats his plan. Rondo surrounded by a pick and roll big and a BUNCH of shooters. We need rondos playmaking because lebron can not dribble for 48 mins so we need to separate their PT.


Did you see the numbers when Lebron and rondo share the floor?


Agree with the roles except swap Danny Green with KCP. I know it makes sense postionally to have them slotted as you do, but Green is going to start.
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