I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: I’m Already Almost On The Fire Vogel Train After This Quote

lakurluv wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Quote:
It's going to be important that we stagger Rajon and LeBron," Vogel said. "And let each of them have their turn running the show. Being the primary ball handler out there. And obviously, they're going to play a ton together as well. But staggering those guys is on my mind as well.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27762112/lakers-experiment-lebron-1-davis-5

....Are you kidding me? Giving Rondo significant playing time is a joke enough as it is (considering he was also statistically the worst point guard in the league last season, but hey what do I know?). Playing him together a lot with Lebron? Like Luke did last season? Has this organization learned freaking nothing?

Literally any starting lineup this roster can come up with is better than having Rondo in it. Having him together with Lebron when we need...I don’t know...SHOOTING!? Even a little defense maybe? Possibly? Even in that Lakers scrimmage video recently released I cringed at Rondo’s wide open bricks.

This is scary, and preseason hasn’t even started yet.


IN all honesty, his actually 100% correct. I just stated in another thread how LBJ manning the point or point forward spot will be a lot to handle...
Everyone needs to understand there is a difference between bringing the ball up the floor and actually being a Point Guard.

I know we all like to think just because LBJ can bring it up make a pass and score makes him a legit PG, but it doesn't. He was too indecisive, over-passed, made bad decisions and couldn't get the team into a flow.

50/50 with the coaching and execution. Rondo would have been a huge contribution in that game against the Clippers with his management of the team on the floor.

I'm not willing to fire him from that statement because to a degree it's accurate. However as a coach you have to make in-game adjustments and the Lakers 'DID-NOT' while the Clippers did all game long. Doc out-coached them and the Clippers out-played the Lakers and that's why they won!

Next time we play them, Rondo will have to run the point and keep LBJ off the Ball... LBJ on one Block and AD on another if they want to play block to block, but the ball has to move freely and the team has to be in a flow and not stagnant in order to have a chance against the Clippers!


It's the first game they faced real NBA defense. Preseason no one really plays defense.

I expect them to make adjustments. Lebron and AD will not continue to play this bad. Lebron is feeling the team out still. The guy had the longest layoff in his career. He is still not in game shape.
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danzag
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject:

golden1 wrote:
No strategy at all, it looked like scatter ball, just playground ball, go down and do whatever.


This. It was ugly to see.

We have no offensive schemes. Too much ISO.
LeBron couldn't make a pass to save his life.
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RetroNikes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:29 am    Post subject:

Only one game.

It's still early.

It's always doom and gloom here after we lose to a top team.
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panamaniac
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:59 am    Post subject:

ShowtimeReturns wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Coaching staff looks woeful. I don't think Kidd or whoever is in charge of the offense has the slightest concept of what a modern scheme looks like. Klutch gonna end up canning Vogel, we'll probably be looking at HC Kidd by mid season.

It looked like something from the 1990's with all the post ISO's for Davis The rotations looked very similar to Walton's.


That’s a good recipe for wearing out AD. No way should he be iso-ing to that capacity. There were no pick n rolls run, lob opportunities etc. last night. Just iso iso iso.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
ShowtimeReturns wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
Coaching staff looks woeful. I don't think Kidd or whoever is in charge of the offense has the slightest concept of what a modern scheme looks like. Klutch gonna end up canning Vogel, we'll probably be looking at HC Kidd by mid season.

It looked like something from the 1990's with all the post ISO's for Davis The rotations looked very similar to Walton's.


That’s a good recipe for wearing out AD. No way should he be iso-ing to that capacity. There were no pick n rolls run, lob opportunities etc. last night. Just iso iso iso.


Yep.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

The offense was too ISOcentric. Quite a contrast from the preseason.
Not only that, but it seemed we took too much time to even get into the Iso sets for AD.

I am a full supporter of AD getting weakside or low post ISOs. Come playoffs, those will be vital. He made many mistakes yesterday that he will need to get over as a player to become a champion. #1, not kicking out and re-posting. #2 Not looking for a teammate when going for his move. #3 teammates weren't really moving once they saw the help was coming. Have to keep using these ISO plays to get ready for the playoffs.

Why we ran mostly ISOs for AD and little pick and rolls, that I do not know. I think our offense should be a blend of Lebron screen/rolls with the 5 man (Dwight/McGee/AD), AD Isos in the post and Lebron/AD screen and rolls.
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realking24
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject:

Out coached by Doc big time.
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scout0_0
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject:

realking24 wrote:
Out coached by Doc big time.


BRO.... it was embarrassing we got outclassed.
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realking24
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject:

scout0_0 wrote:
realking24 wrote:
Out coached by Doc big time.


BRO.... it was embarrassing we got outclassed.


Absolutely agree
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troy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject:

* Lebron James should have NEVER been used as a PG
* KCP was ineffective and should not have been given so much playing time
* The offense was bland. No sets. No plays. No cutting. No movement. It was pretty much lebron doing a bunch of monkey-dribbling and either shooting it or passing to AD.
* AD was not used properly.
* We had a size advantage. Why was that not exploited?
* Too much man to man on Kawhi in 1st period, instead of doubling him.
* Sweet Lou was allowed to do his thing instead of being muscled up.
* McGee was not used offensively or defensively.
* No adjustments made throughout the entire game
* players came out flat; not matching Clips energy or intesity.
* players had zero chemistry. why?

So far, I'm not at all impressed with Vogul.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject:

I really dont get Vogel's obsession over Rondo+KCP.
You better bet Rondo is playing the same 28minutes that KCP got no matter how bad he plays
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject:

I mean nobody really expected this hire to work out, did they?
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:

For the life of me, I don't get how you all judge coaching profiency, especially after one game. Judging coaching is like judging running backs. There are so many factors that go into their success are lack thereof.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
I mean nobody really expected this hire to work out, did they?

Jason Kidd, here we go!
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2019
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:56 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
I mean nobody really expected this hire to work out, did they?

Jason Kidd, here we go!


"hit me"
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
For the life of me, I don't get how you all judge coaching profiency, especially after one game. Judging coaching is like judging running backs. There are so many factors that go into their success are lack thereof.


Heavy iso play indicates to me a lack of a competent gameplan.
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LakerMindLA
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

Frank Vogel says that Kyle Kuzma is ruled out Friday. Rajon Rondo remains questionable but Vogel made a point to say how big of a role he expects Rondo to plat this season - in the 25-30 minute per game range.

Saw this on Twitter.
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repandpresent
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Firing Vogel gets you Coach Kidd.


Can we keep firing until we end up with Luke again? This post will age well.
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LaLaLakeShow
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
* Lebron James should have NEVER been used as a PG
* KCP was ineffective and should not have been given so much playing time
* The offense was bland. No sets. No plays. No cutting. No movement. It was pretty much lebron doing a bunch of monkey-dribbling and either shooting it or passing to AD.
* AD was not used properly.
* We had a size advantage. Why was that not exploited?
* Too much man to man on Kawhi in 1st period, instead of doubling him.
* Sweet Lou was allowed to do his thing instead of being muscled up.
* McGee was not used offensively or defensively.
* No adjustments made throughout the entire game
* players came out flat; not matching Clips energy or intesity.
* players had zero chemistry. why?

So far, I'm not at all impressed with Vogul.


What is Monkey-Dribbling?? Lol
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject:

realking24 wrote:
Out coached by Doc big time.


Not a surprise
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject:

this is not vogel's fault.

vogel is NOT responsible for lebron playing point (and sucking at it). vogel cant demand lebron to play something different. lebron gets to choose, thats how this team works. i told everyone last year, it doesnt matter which coach we get, lebron will still do the same thing (bring the ball up and do nothing, and then make horrible decisions). and i even said watch next year, we'll have a different coach, and he'll do the same thing.

that's how it is these days. maybe one day it will get so bad lebron will be obligated to change his role, but vogel cannot demand that of him. lebron gets to dictate that for now. this is why i dont want him on the team. he insists on doing things like this which is not the best thing for the team to do, and there is no alternative.

its all on lebron. he has to be a real leader, a real winner, and admit he is not the best person to be the primary ballhandler, and accept his proper role which is playing at the elbow and screening, passing, and etc from the triple threat position. he should not be at the arc or playmaking from the top.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
this is not vogel's fault.

vogel is NOT responsible for lebron playing point (and sucking at it). vogel cant demand lebron to play something different. lebron gets to choose, thats how this team works. i told everyone last year, it doesnt matter which coach we get, lebron will still do the same thing (bring the ball up and do nothing, and then make horrible decisions). and i even said watch next year, we'll have a different coach, and he'll do the same thing.

that's how it is these days. maybe one day it will get so bad lebron will be obligated to change his role, but vogel cannot demand that of him. lebron gets to dictate that for now. this is why i dont want him on the team. he insists on doing things like this which is not the best thing for the team to do, and there is no alternative.

its all on lebron. he has to be a real leader, a real winner, and admit he is not the best person to be the primary ballhandler, and accept his proper role which is playing at the elbow and screening, passing, and etc from the triple threat position. he should not be at the arc or playmaking from the top.


He could get away with it when he had his ungodly first step. Now though he has lost his first step and rather than blowing by his defender at will go get to the hoop or get fouled and go to the line, he pounds the ball goes up for a fall away jumper or passes while in the air as the shot clock is running down.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject:

Are we keeping Vogel?
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Are we keeping Vogel?


Fire him? I want to clone him.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject:

Loved the hot takes after 1 game.
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