Fizdale fizzed out in New York
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Fizdale fizzed out in New York

The New York Knicks have fired coach David Fizdale, a league source told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Friday.

The team has also dismissed assistant Keith Smart, a league source told ESPN.

Sources: Knicks fire Fizdale after sliding to 4-18 https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28238796
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject:

Why in the (bleep) anyone here wanted him as a coach was beyond me and there were A LOT of people. Dude's "success" was inheriting a pre-built perennial playoff team (sometimes deep runs) with a system intact. You could see this coming with braille (see a certain former awful Lakers coach).

He had cool sound bites though.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject:

I don't think Fizdale is a particularly good coach, but he's also not the guy that put that atrocious roster together.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject:

This should ensure they get 14 wins this season, get punked again on the #1 draft pick (watch it go to GS) and then have no FA's that want to come there next season, except maybe Carmello Anthony and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they actually signed him..
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject:

The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject:

Knicks were doomed once they struck out in free agency.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject:

He’s in a better place
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject:

The Knicks are the worst franchise in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:20 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Why in the (bleep) anyone here wanted him as a coach was beyond me and there were A LOT of people.


He said "How's that for data"

And it appealed to the anti-analytical fans that wanted a Coach with 'winning hardnose attitude'.

Pretty much the same reason they ignored all Byron's flaws when the Lakers initially hired him and hated D'Antoni for saying the game was changing and analytics proved it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject:

Tough blame to take, knicks went from dreaming a Unicorn-Zion-KD-Kyrie line up the day before draft envelopes opened to Randle-Barrett-Morris-DSJ
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Knicks were doomed once they struck out in free agency.


and failed to get #1 pick.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

Fiz really isn’t a good coach. For all Walton’s flaws,... I’d take him over David any day of the week.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.


What was the rationale behind trading Porzingis for that little?

The first time I ever heard of Fizdale was when he got a technical foul as an Assistant Coach for Spoelstra on the HEAT. It was the first time I had ever seen an assistant coach get a technical foul, and I couldn't stop laughing as the camera zoomed in on his appalled expression.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Knicks are just a toxic environment. Why would any coach or player want to go there? Especially with the current ownership.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Why in the (bleep) anyone here wanted him as a coach was beyond me and there were A LOT of people. Dude's "success" was inheriting a pre-built perennial playoff team (sometimes deep runs) with a system intact. You could see this coming with braille (see a certain former awful Lakers coach).

He had cool sound bites though.


Which one are you talking about? Walton, Scott, Brown, or D'Antoni?

Walton: 43-4 record with GSW
Brown: Finals appearance with LeBron and best record in the league in 08-09
Scott: Two NBA Finals appearances with Jason Kidd
D'Antoni: Multiple deep playoff runs with Nash, Marion and Stoudemire.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Knicks are just a toxic environment. Why would any coach or player want to go there? Especially with the current ownership.


Their last four coaches prior to Fiz still haven't landed another head coaching job. The only Knicks coach in the last 18 years since JVG who got another NBA head coaching gig after leaving the Knicks was D'Antoni.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Knicks are just a toxic environment. Why would any coach or player want to go there? Especially with the current ownership.


Their last four coaches prior to Fiz still haven't landed another head coaching job. The only Knicks coach in the last 18 years since JVG who got another NBA head coaching gig after leaving the Knicks was D'Antoni.


Or you can look at it another way....how many coaches have avoided the Knicks because of who is running the team.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.


What was the rationale behind trading Porzingis for that little?

The first time I ever heard of Fizdale was when he got a technical foul as an Assistant Coach for Spoelstra on the HEAT. It was the first time I had ever seen an assistant coach get a technical foul, and I couldn't stop laughing as the camera zoomed in on his appalled expression.

They traded him for that little because they felt they could sign Durant and Kyrie by off loading Hardaway's bad contract with KP. Dallas was willing to take on Hardaway's bad contract. The Knicks brain trust felt they would sign the 2 stars and have a better future than with keeping Porzingis, who is unable to carry a franchise as the #1 guy due to his health.

I understand wanting stars, but to me it never made any sense to me the way they dealt KP. I recall saying it on this board right away, what the heck are they doing? You have a better chance at a star with KP and a star doing well with KP. Look at Luka. Kyrie or whomever would do better with a KP than without. Their plan made little sense to me. And if you deal him, deal him when his value is good and not off an ACL injury - and get some longterm quality asset for him.

I haven't been following, who is the #1 pick in next year's draft? They need someone who can change their franchise. They need some luck in the draft, something they have not had in the lottery.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Why in the (bleep) anyone here wanted him as a coach was beyond me and there were A LOT of people. Dude's "success" was inheriting a pre-built perennial playoff team (sometimes deep runs) with a system intact. You could see this coming with braille (see a certain former awful Lakers coach).

He had cool sound bites though.


Which one are you talking about? Walton, Scott, Brown, or D'Antoni?

Walton: 43-4 record with GSW
Brown: Finals appearance with LeBron and best record in the league in 08-09
Scott: Two NBA Finals appearances with Jason Kidd
D'Antoni: Multiple deep playoff runs with Nash, Marion and Stoudemire.


Walton specifically.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.


What was the rationale behind trading Porzingis for that little?

The first time I ever heard of Fizdale was when he got a technical foul as an Assistant Coach for Spoelstra on the HEAT. It was the first time I had ever seen an assistant coach get a technical foul, and I couldn't stop laughing as the camera zoomed in on his appalled expression.

They traded him for that little because they felt they could sign Durant and Kyrie by off loading Hardaway's bad contract with KP. Dallas was willing to take on Hardaway's bad contract. The Knicks brain trust felt they would sign the 2 stars and have a better future than with keeping Porzingis, who is unable to carry a franchise as the #1 guy due to his health.

I understand wanting stars, but to me it never made any sense to me the way they dealt KP. I recall saying it on this board right away, what the heck are they doing? You have a better chance at a star with KP and a star doing well with KP. Look at Luka. Kyrie or whomever would do better with a KP than without. Their plan made little sense to me. And if you deal him, deal him when his value is good and not off an ACL injury - and get some longterm quality asset for him.

I haven't been following, who is the #1 pick in next year's draft? They need someone who can change their franchise. They need some luck in the draft, something they have not had in the lottery.


You're discounting the fact that KP demanded a trade.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/22/kristaps-porzingis-demanded-trade-knicks-president-claim-europe-return

That more than anything led them to this reboot.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Knicks are just a toxic environment. Why would any coach or player want to go there? Especially with the current ownership.


Their young player, Ntilikina, has had 3 head coaches. It’s difficult to tell if he can be a good player when everything changes every season.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Why in the (bleep) anyone here wanted him as a coach was beyond me and there were A LOT of people. Dude's "success" was inheriting a pre-built perennial playoff team (sometimes deep runs) with a system intact. You could see this coming with braille (see a certain former awful Lakers coach).

He had cool sound bites though.


Which one are you talking about? Walton, Scott, Brown, or D'Antoni?

Walton: 43-4 record with GSW
Brown: Finals appearance with LeBron and best record in the league in 08-09
Scott: Two NBA Finals appearances with Jason Kidd
D'Antoni: Multiple deep playoff runs with Nash, Marion and Stoudemire.


Scott, he took over a team of vets who won despite of him.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:02 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.


What was the rationale behind trading Porzingis for that little?

The first time I ever heard of Fizdale was when he got a technical foul as an Assistant Coach for Spoelstra on the HEAT. It was the first time I had ever seen an assistant coach get a technical foul, and I couldn't stop laughing as the camera zoomed in on his appalled expression.

They traded him for that little because they felt they could sign Durant and Kyrie by off loading Hardaway's bad contract with KP. Dallas was willing to take on Hardaway's bad contract. The Knicks brain trust felt they would sign the 2 stars and have a better future than with keeping Porzingis, who is unable to carry a franchise as the #1 guy due to his health.

I understand wanting stars, but to me it never made any sense to me the way they dealt KP. I recall saying it on this board right away, what the heck are they doing? You have a better chance at a star with KP and a star doing well with KP. Look at Luka. Kyrie or whomever would do better with a KP than without. Their plan made little sense to me. And if you deal him, deal him when his value is good and not off an ACL injury - and get some longterm quality asset for him.

I haven't been following, who is the #1 pick in next year's draft? They need someone who can change their franchise. They need some luck in the draft, something they have not had in the lottery.


You're discounting the fact that KP demanded a trade.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/22/kristaps-porzingis-demanded-trade-knicks-president-claim-europe-return

That more than anything led them to this reboot.

Quote:

Porzingis and his brother, Janis, who serves as his agent, had planned to meet with management to discuss his future in January. Once the Porzingis brothers found out that the Knicks were discussing a trade with the Dallas Mavericks, sources said, they hurried a meeting the next morning and asked to be moved to one of four destinations: the Nets, Clippers, Raptors or Heat.

KP asked for a trade only after he found out they were shipping him to Dallas or trying to trade him to New Orleans.

Here’s a link to an article I read today on the Knicks

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28261417/lost-stars-lack-leadership-fleeting-hope-knicks
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Knicks are just a toxic environment. Why would any coach or player want to go there? Especially with the current ownership.


$$$
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Knicks are funny. They hired him to build a defensive team around a great defensive big like Porzingis, and then they trade Porzingis away for a backup point guard and future late first rounders.

I did not think he did a good job with the Knicks by any means, but the fact is when they interviewed him a lot of it was based on building a team around Porzingis. The things Porzingis can do for a team defensively are similar to a lesser degree than what AD does for us. Elite length and rim protection. A big that can cover ground. You had a defensive guy in Fizdale who came from the Miami - Riley culture to help that guy in that situation to build a defensive team like Riley culture around a big guy that can defend and enjoys to in KP. KP can not carry a team on offense with all his injuries but he can be the guy you build your D around. So not really fair to the guy to then go into a completely different direction. What kind of talent did Fizdale really have once they decided they were going to trade KP for peanuts, and then take aim (and fail) at a Kyrie-KD pairing? Who was their best player during the Fizdale era?

I do not blame Fizdale too much. I would refrain from calling a crap coach because the Knicks are a crap organization. How Steve Mills still has a job is beyond me. He is ridiculously bad his job. I still remember how fans on this board were calling Jeanie, Rob and co. Knicks West. Seriously.


What was the rationale behind trading Porzingis for that little?

The first time I ever heard of Fizdale was when he got a technical foul as an Assistant Coach for Spoelstra on the HEAT. It was the first time I had ever seen an assistant coach get a technical foul, and I couldn't stop laughing as the camera zoomed in on his appalled expression.

They traded him for that little because they felt they could sign Durant and Kyrie by off loading Hardaway's bad contract with KP. Dallas was willing to take on Hardaway's bad contract. The Knicks brain trust felt they would sign the 2 stars and have a better future than with keeping Porzingis, who is unable to carry a franchise as the #1 guy due to his health.

I understand wanting stars, but to me it never made any sense to me the way they dealt KP. I recall saying it on this board right away, what the heck are they doing? You have a better chance at a star with KP and a star doing well with KP. Look at Luka. Kyrie or whomever would do better with a KP than without. Their plan made little sense to me. And if you deal him, deal him when his value is good and not off an ACL injury - and get some longterm quality asset for him.

I haven't been following, who is the #1 pick in next year's draft? They need someone who can change their franchise. They need some luck in the draft, something they have not had in the lottery.


You're discounting the fact that KP demanded a trade.

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/05/22/kristaps-porzingis-demanded-trade-knicks-president-claim-europe-return

That more than anything led them to this reboot.

Quote:

Porzingis and his brother, Janis, who serves as his agent, had planned to meet with management to discuss his future in January. Once the Porzingis brothers found out that the Knicks were discussing a trade with the Dallas Mavericks, sources said, they hurried a meeting the next morning and asked to be moved to one of four destinations: the Nets, Clippers, Raptors or Heat.

KP asked for a trade only after he found out they were shipping him to Dallas or trying to trade him to New Orleans.

Here’s a link to an article I read today on the Knicks

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28261417/lost-stars-lack-leadership-fleeting-hope-knicks


Interesting. I hadn't herd about the initial trade feelers Wolfy.


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