Vogel - Great Job
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LandsbergerRules
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Our offense has the depth of a kiddy pool. And when we play teams with comparable talent to us. It shows.


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Our offense has the depth of a kiddy pool. And when we play teams with comparable talent to us. It shows.


Agreed.

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Doc JC
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject:

Am I the only one that wants to see Caruso start and get 35+ minutes a night? I honestly just want to see what that would look like with the starters.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject:

Doc JC wrote:
Am I the only one that wants to see Caruso start and get 35+ minutes a night? I honestly just want to see what that would look like with the starters.


Let’s not go crazy, but I wouldn’t mind unleashing last year’s Caruso a bit.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject:

Doc JC wrote:
Am I the only one that wants to see Caruso start and get 35+ minutes a night? I honestly just want to see what that would look like with the starters.


Would be amazing but Vogel will never do it due to team politics.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:51 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Doc JC wrote:
Am I the only one that wants to see Caruso start and get 35+ minutes a night? I honestly just want to see what that would look like with the starters.


Let’s not go crazy, but I wouldn’t mind unleashing last year’s Caruso a bit.


Why not? Is Bradely bringing anything that Caruso doesn’t? This would keep Rondo off the floor as well, which is my main aim.

Our backup bench guards would be Bradley and KCP. Our offense may not be great, but our defense will be. This team has got to limit the holes they put themselves in. Bradely also isn’t bringing anything to the starting unit. As a bench guy, he can do more PnR with Dwight and get his mid range game going a little with more shots available.

I want this team to really embrace the defensive side of the ball and see what happens. Rondo is a complete negative on the floor at present.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Our offense has the depth of a kiddy pool. And when we play teams with comparable talent to us. It shows.


Agreed.


I'm not arguing that our creativity on offense leaves much to be desired, but how much of it is because of lack of personnel (namely reliable shooters), as well as Vogel playing certain combos that just should not see the light of day (every time we have two non-shooters at the same time)? The insistence on going big as our style of choice and identity, zigging while the rest of the NBA is zagging, basically got called out last night in a huge way.
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Day
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:13 pm    Post subject:

I like Vogel, I think he's a good coach and am impressed with many of the things he's done.

That said, I'm sick of blaming Rondo. It's Vogel's fault that Rondo is losing us games. He shouldn't be getting minutes, it's not his fault that Vogel keeps playing him.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject:

Vogel is a good coach, and a very good leader. This team is behind him, and plays hard for him.

I just think it still all comes down to LBJ. When LBJ decided to take over and be more aggressive as a penetration threat, using AD as his screen setter, we came back and had a lead against Houston in the 4th. Then he mysteriously began to settle for 3s and also others took a few bad shots.

LBJ has not reached that level of execution that Kobe had in the same role. I am not saying that LBJ is a weaker player or make it into an argument. I am simply saying as great as Lebron is, he is not someone that has won a title being both the #1 option on offense and the #1 playmaking (for teammates) guard. This is a very very difficult role to master and win rings with. Very few guys win rings in the league this way. Our best shot at winning a title is getting some elite all time great D (Which we have the talent for) and then Lebron doing what Lebron should be able to do in theory and that is channel that Kobe mamba mode in the playoffs. You know if mamba were here he would be advising Bron on this. In a respectful manner of course. I also wish Phil Jackson were around the team a bit, too bad Lebron and Phil had that war of words a few years ago. Phil would advise Lebron some really really important things about how to play his role even better.

If we fail this year, we have no other option than to try and trade for a second star guard next to Bron, using Kuzma, draft picks and whatever other non-AD assets the team wants. Lebron has proven if you give him a second star guard and a star big he will deliver a ring. Without that 2nd star guard though, Lebron has not proven he can win a ring. It is a big big playoffs for Lebron, IMO.

Right now what we need to hope for is that elite all time level D kicks in at playoffs, which the team has the talent for. Such that it makes the need for elite great O not as high. We can definitely be a good team on offense. We just make some boneheaded mistakes at times and our 3 point shooting is not always there. Kuzma and Rondo are a really big problem together sometimes. But then they go out together and beat OKC in OKC without Lebron-AD. I am going to sit back and wait until the playoffs. I still feel this team has what it takes to win it all, it will not be a given like the Warriors with Steph-KD, but it can definitely happen if Lebron steps up and the D kicks in.
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject:

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like our defense has fallen off a cliff since the start of the season. I also don’t think it is a good idea to wait until the playoffs to try and ‘turn it on’.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:11 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Vogel is a good coach, and a very good leader. This team is behind him, and plays hard for him.

I just think it still all comes down to LBJ. When LBJ decided to take over and be more aggressive as a penetration threat, using AD as his screen setter, we came back and had a lead against Houston in the 4th. Then he mysteriously began to settle for 3s and also others took a few bad shots.

LBJ has not reached that level of execution that Kobe had in the same role. I am not saying that LBJ is a weaker player or make it into an argument. I am simply saying as great as Lebron is, he is not someone that has won a title being both the #1 option on offense and the #1 playmaking (for teammates) guard. This is a very very difficult role to master and win rings with. Very few guys win rings in the league this way. Our best shot at winning a title is getting some elite all time great D (Which we have the talent for) and then Lebron doing what Lebron should be able to do in theory and that is channel that Kobe mamba mode in the playoffs. You know if mamba were here he would be advising Bron on this. In a respectful manner of course. I also wish Phil Jackson were around the team a bit, too bad Lebron and Phil had that war of words a few years ago. Phil would advise Lebron some really really important things about how to play his role even better.

If we fail this year, we have no other option than to try and trade for a second star guard next to Bron, using Kuzma, draft picks and whatever other non-AD assets the team wants. Lebron has proven if you give him a second star guard and a star big he will deliver a ring. Without that 2nd star guard though, Lebron has not proven he can win a ring. It is a big big playoffs for Lebron, IMO.

Right now what we need to hope for is that elite all time level D kicks in at playoffs, which the team has the talent for. Such that it makes the need for elite great O not as high. We can definitely be a good team on offense. We just make some boneheaded mistakes at times and our 3 point shooting is not always there. Kuzma and Rondo are a really big problem together sometimes. But then they go out together and beat OKC in OKC without Lebron-AD. I am going to sit back and wait until the playoffs. I still feel this team has what it takes to win it all, it will not be a given like the Warriors with Steph-KD, but it can definitely happen if Lebron steps up and the D kicks in.


Great post. There isn't one thing I disagree with. I'm a little less confident about the bolded than you are. But I mean, it is possible. Multiple things have to break the right way for us. Playoff seeding is KEY. Staying healthy is important too.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject:

If Vogel wants to play rondo, play him tonight, as long as he want
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Totally didn’t understand why we went small ball. Even Charles Barkley was saying pregame Rockets couldn’t match us. Then we decide to play small ball too? Huh?


I only saw a small part of the game, so my opinion is based on that. If Howard only played 4 minutes then that is what I saw, he was guarding Westbrook and played off of him by several yards afraid of the drive. Westbrook settled for easy pull up jumpers with Howard nowhere close.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like our defense has fallen off a cliff since the start of the season. I also don’t think it is a good idea to wait until the playoffs to try and ‘turn it on’.


It has declined, especially with Lebron. The sooner we recognize that we have a 35 yo Lebron and not a 28 yo Lebron, the better. I’m just fearful that he will activate playoff mode again. That isn’t a knock on Lebron because Father Time cannot be conquered. After the break if other players don’t step up, I am not sure they will turn anything on. The past dozen games or so, we have been an average team.
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Our offense has the depth of a kiddy pool. And when we play teams with comparable talent to us. It shows.


Agreed.


I'm not arguing that our creativity on offense leaves much to be desired, but how much of it is because of lack of personnel (namely reliable shooters), as well as Vogel playing certain combos that just should not see the light of day (every time we have two non-shooters at the same time)? The insistence on going big as our style of choice and identity, zigging while the rest of the NBA is zagging, basically got called out last night in a huge way.


What was eye opening to me was in postgame Vogel was visibly frustrated with how they were running the offense while LBJ thought their offense was just fine.

Honestly Lebron is wrong but so is Vogel who is stubborn about playing misfit lineups full of 2 or 3 non-shooters at one time.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Totally didn’t understand why we went small ball. Even Charles Barkley was saying pregame Rockets couldn’t match us. Then we decide to play small ball too? Huh?


I only saw a small part of the game, so my opinion is based on that. If Howard only played 4 minutes then that is what I saw, he was guarding Westbrook and played off of him by several yards afraid of the drive. Westbrook settled for easy pull up jumpers with Howard nowhere close.


None of our bigs actually did well guarding Russ.

AD wasn’t that great either. He was giving Russ too much space to take jumpers but was also letting him drive in deep for dunks and layups notably in the second half. Kuzma kept getting pushed around by Russ in the paint. McGee just looked like he had no idea when to switch since everyone was rotating off Harden.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Vogel needs to include Daniels and Cook more into the rotations. They are legit shooters, way better than Rondo and Green right now, and the later 2 are getting a lot of minutes without proper production.

This is the problem with Vogel. He keeps giving bad players minutes and key reason we lose these close games.

LBJ and Davis can only carry the team so much, the rest have to produce well while on the floor, especially crunch time
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:42 pm    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
Vogel needs to include Daniels and Cook more into the rotations. They are legit shooters, way better than Rondo and Green right now, and the later 2 are getting a lot of minutes without proper production.

This is the problem with Vogel. He keeps giving bad players minutes and key reason we lose these close games.

LBJ and Davis can only carry the team so much, the rest have to produce well while on the floor, especially crunch time


This is what I have been saying. Daniels and cook can provide much needed spacing. Our defense has regressed, so it is not like we are losing much if we play them more instead of Green, and Rondo.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
Vogel needs to include Daniels and Cook more into the rotations. They are legit shooters, way better than Rondo and Green right now, and the later 2 are getting a lot of minutes without proper production.

This is the problem with Vogel. He keeps giving bad players minutes and key reason we lose these close games.

LBJ and Davis can only carry the team so much, the rest have to produce well while on the floor, especially crunch time



Yup.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:39 pm    Post subject:

Would it be considered evil to wish for Rondo to injure his gluteus maximus like AD which for some reason takes him out for the rest of the season? Seems like the only way to save Vogel from himself
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
Would it be considered evil to wish for Rondo to injure his gluteus maximus like AD which for some reason takes him out for the rest of the season? Seems like the only way to save Vogel from himself
wishing an injury to anyone is evil
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject:

scout0_0 wrote:
3baller wrote:
Would it be considered evil to wish for Rondo to injure his gluteus maximus like AD which for some reason takes him out for the rest of the season? Seems like the only way to save Vogel from himself
wishing an injury to anyone is evil


Gluteus Maximus contusion? Sprained middle finger? Stubbed toe? No?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject:

scout0_0 wrote:
JeezyXVII wrote:
Vogel needs to include Daniels and Cook more into the rotations. They are legit shooters, way better than Rondo and Green right now, and the later 2 are getting a lot of minutes without proper production.

This is the problem with Vogel. He keeps giving bad players minutes and key reason we lose these close games.

LBJ and Davis can only carry the team so much, the rest have to produce well while on the floor, especially crunch time



Yup.


Agreed.

This would be my rotation. No Rondo unless we're playing like crap and need someone to make the game easier (if Rondo even does that anymore?)...in that case, he can slide in for either Caruso or Cook mins.

McGee (12), AD (18), Dwight (18)
AD (16), Kuzma (32)
LeBron (32), Daniels (8), KCP (8)
Green (26), KCP (16), Caruso (4)
Bradley (22), Caruso (14), Cook (10)

If you get Collison, he takes Bradley's mins as starter, Bradley gets 14 off of Caruso and Cook.
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scout0_0
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Finally....... 3 %37 + shooters



Caruso
Daniels
Green
Kuzma
Dwight

and kuzma has 4 assists....


Last edited by scout0_0 on Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject:

+9 in 10 mins
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