Laker Report: What You See is What You Get
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LakerJam
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18408
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:58 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
When West was here, the Buss family didn’t interfere with any deals he may want to make

Ummm NO.

I rarely disagree with you LJ, but that is flat out wrong.

West has threatened to quit NUMEROUS times because of Buss. Buss drove West insane because he would make a decision and then not change his mind at all.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Glen Rice trade happenned because of Buss.

West is a genious. There's noway he would accept a trade that bad unless he was forced to trade Eddie by deadline.

Also, in Memphis JW has complete power. I have a read a few articles from the Memphis papers where they said that West loves the amount of power he has in that franchise (and it's what really enticed him) and that he always lacked that kind of stroke in LA

The difference may be that Mitch will not argue with Buss and is more facilitating while West was more confrontational and would actually argue with the old man.


Wolf, I disagree wholeheartedly. Up until now, Buss had a widely known reputation for staying out of people's way and letting his people do their jobs. He absolutely approved or nixed deals based on MONEY, but he didn't tell Jerry West what to do, he didn't interfere and this was Jerry West's show.

Just because you can't believe West might make a bad trade, doesn't mean that it was Jerry Buss' fault. That's a flawed argument and counter to the reputation of this owner. Doesn't mean he was absentee, but he's never been known to control or interfere.

Contrary to popular opinion, not everything Jerry West did/does was/is brilliant. He's made his fair share of bad decisions, awful drafts, and bone-headed moves, too. When he struck gold, however, he REALLY struck gold so fans pretty much don't even want to acknowledge where he had some failures. If West does something awful, it's another guy's fault - and you're proving that point right now.


Last edited by LakerJam on Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
20,000
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 29999
Location: Likely nowhere near you

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
West didn't get his way in LA. He'd throw temper tantrums until he got his way, if he really thought it'd help. Which is where my concerns with Mitch are. He's too willing to give in to the Buss's. Kupchak says he wants to do one thing, Buss says no, Mitch gives up.

He has to learn to take a stand. Stop being such a pushover.


A lot of conjecture there, no?
_________________
Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
LakerJam
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 02 Aug 2002
Posts: 18408
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
West didn't get his way in LA. He'd throw temper tantrums until he got his way, if he really thought it'd help. Which is where my concerns with Mitch are. He's too willing to give in to the Buss's. Kupchak says he wants to do one thing, Buss says no, Mitch gives up.

He has to learn to take a stand. Stop being such a pushover.


I agree with you completely. The only complication is that Buss is SO adamant about Jimmy Buss and the management respecting Jimmy, that I don't think any GM would win that fight. Seems like Jerry Buss is far more aggressive now on behalf of Jim Buss, than he ever was when it was just him as the top dog with Jerry West beneath him. It's almost like he's being too much a "father" and not enough of an "owner", that he's almost blind about it.

Hey, I could be wrong. Perhaps Jim Buss will be brilliant, but I'm not liking the things we're hearing now, that's for sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bthanos
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Wolf, I think you bring up a solid point regarding the difference between Mitch and JW. After all, JW is the NBA emblum and he was not afraid to speak his mind and disagree with Buss.

However, I kind of agree with Jam, because Jim Buss has only recently put himself into the mix as far a decision making goes. When Jerry West was there, Jim was doing his own thing and did not have much involvement with the team. After he failed at everthing he attempted, he said "F it, im just going to run my pops team now." I dont think Jerry West had to deal with this like Mitch does.

This is a problem.


Last edited by bthanos on Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kups
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1716

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Thanks again eric.

". . . but it's difficult to understand why a small move to add backcourt depth wasn't made. Be it Anderson, Jon Barry or Flip Murray, the Lakers could have given their playoff run a boost."

^ sums up my sentiment.
_________________
#2 Lonzo
#28 Derrick White, Jordan Bell, Deonte Burton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dino
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4118

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject:

emplay - good read, as always...wondering if you have any thoughts on how the lakers plan to acquire kg considering they don't have enough salaries to match up with his, unless you include 1. a LOT of players the wolves might not want; 2. kwame brown's contract (another player they probably don't want)...?

laker jam - scary to think that might be true...i remember reading somewhere that a major reason west left was that he felt under apreciated by buss...another reaon was that buss was interfering (?) with wet's decisions...wasn't jones/campbell to the wizards for richmond something west wanted that was vetoed by buss?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jeremysnow
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 7079

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject:

the two organizations with are by far, best in the management of personnel, players and scouting are two of the best teams, i.e. detroit and san antonio.

joe dumars has been absolutely stellar in his decisions, mirroring the selfless, tough player that he once was (dumars was a finals mvp).

the rj buford/popovich show in san antonio is not to be outdone, being equally, adept. in the early 90s they were simply lucky, with dRob injured & securing the #1 pick, which became TD.

now the SAS organization (beyond the actual team) is not so much lucky as they are good.

sad to say, as much as I like the lakers organization, we've been a weak middle dweller with regards to aforementioned.

just too many cooks trying to make too a few key decisions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
mm708
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject:

What I See Is What I Hate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6121

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject:

jeremysnow wrote:
the two organizations with are by far, best in the management of personnel, players and scouting are two of the best teams, i.e. detroit and san antonio. joe dumars has been absolutely stellar in his decisions, mirroring the selfless, tough player that he once was (dumars was a finals mvp). the rj buford/popovich show in san antonio is not to be outdone, being equally, adept. in the early 90s they were simply lucky, with dRob injured & securing the #1 pick, which became TD. now the SAS organization (beyond the actual team) is not so much lucky as they are good.
Factual statements have been spoken. A few years ago, the Pistons and Spurs were not held in such high regards, as noted by their failure of dethroning the Shaq/Kobe's reign of championships/domination. The Lakers are 1 or 2 players/key acquisition (something more than Artest) away of returning to dominance. I appreciate the Lakers' management's (the best over the course of many years - just count the rings that Buss has) goal of getting rings - not a good showing in the playoffs.

Would Artest and Kobe bring championships (assuming that it would have cost LO), the answer is no.

Would Pierce, Boozer, Watson, BDavis, etc. bring championships - no.

Would KG & Kobe bring championships - a greater possibility if they have someone else being the initiator like a Ron Harper/BShaw/etc., it would have been great if DGeorge could have been that person.

Does anybody know if Aaron McKie will even play this season?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laker4life
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject:

Excellent. I love it. Well said.

You're right. Kupcake had time to improve this team since the Shaq trade and has done absolutely nothing.

In addition, the Devon George move was an indication to me that we were in trouble with Kupcake.

People may think that one mistake cannot be blamed for the decline in this team. However, they just don't realize the Kupcake has made a culmination of mistakes which have led to the demise of this once championship franchise in less than five seasons. The George move just one of many.

Kupcake is sure great in leading a team to the lottery. What a GM. Yippee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laker4life
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
jeremysnow wrote:
the two organizations with are by far, best in the management of personnel, players and scouting are two of the best teams, i.e. detroit and san antonio. joe dumars has been absolutely stellar in his decisions, mirroring the selfless, tough player that he once was (dumars was a finals mvp). the rj buford/popovich show in san antonio is not to be outdone, being equally, adept. in the early 90s they were simply lucky, with dRob injured & securing the #1 pick, which became TD. now the SAS organization (beyond the actual team) is not so much lucky as they are good.
Factual statements have been spoken. A few years ago, the Pistons and Spurs were not held in such high regards, as noted by their failure of dethroning the Shaq/Kobe's reign of championships/domination. The Lakers are 1 or 2 players/key acquisition (something more than Artest) away of returning to dominance. I appreciate the Lakers' management's (the best over the course of many years - just count the rings that Buss has) goal of getting rings - not a good showing in the playoffs.

Would Artest and Kobe bring championships (assuming that it would have cost LO), the answer is no.

Would Pierce, Boozer, Watson, BDavis, etc. bring championships - no.

Would KG & Kobe bring championships - a greater possibility if they have someone else being the initiator like a Ron Harper/BShaw/etc., it would have been great if DGeorge could have been that person.

Does anybody know if Aaron McKie will even play this season?


Artest/Pierce/Boozer or BDavis made not have brought us a championship but they would at least get us into the playoff instead of the lottery.

With some help, after we make the playoffs, anything is possible in this game.

Look at the Pistons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6121

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
jeremysnow wrote:
the two organizations with are by far, best in the management of personnel, players and scouting are two of the best teams, i.e. detroit and san antonio. joe dumars has been absolutely stellar in his decisions, mirroring the selfless, tough player that he once was (dumars was a finals mvp). the rj buford/popovich show in san antonio is not to be outdone, being equally, adept. in the early 90s they were simply lucky, with dRob injured & securing the #1 pick, which became TD. now the SAS organization (beyond the actual team) is not so much lucky as they are good.
Factual statements have been spoken. A few years ago, the Pistons and Spurs were not held in such high regards, as noted by their failure of dethroning the Shaq/Kobe's reign of championships/domination. The Lakers are 1 or 2 players/key acquisition (something more than Artest) away of returning to dominance. I appreciate the Lakers' management's (the best over the course of many years - just count the rings that Buss has) goal of getting rings - not a good showing in the playoffs.

Would Artest and Kobe bring championships (assuming that it would have cost LO), the answer is no. Would Pierce, Boozer, Watson, BDavis, etc. bring championships - no. Would KG & Kobe bring championships - a greater possibility if they have someone else being the initiator like a Ron Harper/BShaw/etc., it would have been great if DGeorge could have been that person.
Does anybody know if Aaron McKie will even play this season?
Artest/Pierce/Boozer or BDavis made not have brought us a championship but they would at least get us into the playoff instead of the lottery. With some help, after we make the playoffs, anything is possible in this game. Look at the Pistons.

I agree with the Lakers' focus of getting rings, not just making the playoffs. Every team say "if we make the playoffs, anything is possible" from teams like the Cavs, Bucks, Griz, etc and don't have a realistic chance of winning RINGS. As previously stated, before the Pistons beat the Lakers - nobody was following their M.O. If Shaq/Kobe could have kept their "mojo" together on the basketball court - we wouldn't be talking about the Pistons, Spurs, Heat, etc. A Shaq/Kobe-led team with other pieces around them such as Luke, DGeorge, etc. would have won at least 2 to 4 more rings. Even the Shaq-led Heat team is not the top choice to even win the Eastern Conference.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
orido86
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject:

tnx eric
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laker4life
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
laker4life wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
jeremysnow wrote:
the two organizations with are by far, best in the management of personnel, players and scouting are two of the best teams, i.e. detroit and san antonio. joe dumars has been absolutely stellar in his decisions, mirroring the selfless, tough player that he once was (dumars was a finals mvp). the rj buford/popovich show in san antonio is not to be outdone, being equally, adept. in the early 90s they were simply lucky, with dRob injured & securing the #1 pick, which became TD. now the SAS organization (beyond the actual team) is not so much lucky as they are good.
Factual statements have been spoken. A few years ago, the Pistons and Spurs were not held in such high regards, as noted by their failure of dethroning the Shaq/Kobe's reign of championships/domination. The Lakers are 1 or 2 players/key acquisition (something more than Artest) away of returning to dominance. I appreciate the Lakers' management's (the best over the course of many years - just count the rings that Buss has) goal of getting rings - not a good showing in the playoffs.

Would Artest and Kobe bring championships (assuming that it would have cost LO), the answer is no. Would Pierce, Boozer, Watson, BDavis, etc. bring championships - no. Would KG & Kobe bring championships - a greater possibility if they have someone else being the initiator like a Ron Harper/BShaw/etc., it would have been great if DGeorge could have been that person.
Does anybody know if Aaron McKie will even play this season?
Artest/Pierce/Boozer or BDavis made not have brought us a championship but they would at least get us into the playoff instead of the lottery. With some help, after we make the playoffs, anything is possible in this game. Look at the Pistons.


I agree with the Lakers' focus of getting rings, not just making the playoffs. Every team say "if we make the playoffs, anything is possible" from teams like the Cavs, Bucks, Griz, etc and don't have a realistic chance of winning RINGS. As previously stated, before the Pistons beat the Lakers - nobody was following their M.O. If Shaq/Kobe could have kept their "mojo" together on the basketball court - we wouldn't be talking about the Pistons, Spurs, Heat, etc. A Shaq/Kobe-led team with other pieces around them such as Luke, DGeorge, etc. would have won at least 2 to 4 more rings. Even the Shaq-led Heat team is not the top choice to even win the Eastern Conference.


Of course I would agree with the idea of focusing on the rings. But you have to make the playoffs first. We are not even a playoff team yet.

Even if we do focus on the "rings", there are no guarantees in basketball.

Lakers can talk all they want about being about the rings but the truth of the matter, it is so difficult to get to the top that some of you are going to be in for a surprise. It is quite possible that we will not see another championship for another twenty years. If Kobe gets hurt or Kupchak fails to bring in someone, we will be stuck at this level.

You're right that the Shaq led team is not the top choice in the East now but you have to realize one thing. When the Lakers won those three championships in a row, they were never the top choice. Experts would choose other teams. (ie. Blazers, Kings and Spurs were alot of the people choices). The bottom line is that the Heat are a lot closer to a championship than us.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB