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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject:

1) LaMelo Ball - Hayes is the safer pick, but I'll go with Ball's upside. It's scary to take a guy first overall who needs to completely rework his shot, but 6'7 PGs with elite vision and advanced instincts...well, has there been a player like that since Shaun Livingston? And despite Ball's lack of accuracy, he has a more diverse offensive game now than Livingston had before he retired.

2) Killian Hayes - advanced shot-maker for his age with a good frame and impressive passing vision. That's a great foundation to build from and his issues as a spot-up shooter look easy to fix. Super left-hand dominant, which was the root cause of most of his tovs, but I'd bet on him working that out over time, as well. The commitment as a defender at such a young age is super impressive - even with some of his athletic limitations, a big guard with off-ball defensive awareness and the desire to fight through every screen is going to be a guy you don't have to hide on that end like you do with DLo. He's not as ground bound as Russell, but I worry about his ability to get to the rim and finish reliably in the NBA.

3) Aleksej Pokusevski - total flier on a guy who probably gets physically stuck between PF and C like Dragan Bender. But 7-footers who are as disruptive as he is on defense with guard skills at age 18 are worth the risk even if his shooting efficiency at a lower level of competition and his thin frame make him a low floor gamble.

4) Onyeka Okongwu - I don't think he ever shoots and his size makes him vulnerable in certain matchups, but unless he's facing off against Joel Embiid in a playoff series, he's a guy who should be able to close big games for you in a PnR heavy scheme. I think with his handle, touch, and nascent passing skills that he'll eventually be effective on the short roll, he'll provide post offense against smaller defenders on switches, and he should be very good on switches while still providing solid, if not elite, rim protection. Without a jumper I think his ceiling is lower than some of the guys below him, but unlike most young guys in this draft, he was really, really good at basketball this season and young bigs who get steals are a good bet to have a high floor.

5) James Wiseman - the college data is meager, if intriguing, while his EYBL performances against good competition were very concerning. He clearly lacks the lateral fluidity to be switchable, which along with his questionable decisionmaking and lack of passing vision limit him from becoming a 35-minute-a-night player let alone a star, but 7'1 guys with 7'6 wingspans who shoot 3s have real value. The biggest issue I think he may have is that he'll be overdrafted and expected to be Anthony Davis when he's more JaVale McGee with a jumper.

5) Patrick Williams - the lateral quickness is an issue, I get it, but a young, athletic two-way big with burgeoning wing skills on offense excites me. I buy the jumper and his dribble drive/passing talent elevates him to this level for me.

6) Anthony Edwards - I see the upside, but he's a dumb, selfish basketball player who doesn't care on defense and my guess is that never fully goes away. The good news for him is that there are some teams at the top of the draft with established stars where he could be placed in a role where he could unlearn bad habits as Jaylen Brown has done in Boston. Or he could get drafted by the Cavs and spend his rookie contract getting into chucking matches with Collin Sexton and KPJ. I feel very confident he'll be a 20ppg scorer in the NBA - I just think the risk of getting tied to him as a fake star when he's probably best cast as a third option are too great the higher he gets picked.

7) Deni Avdija - there are days where I like him more than Patrick Williams, but I think physically he's much more likely to get caught up as a 'tweener forward and his shooting concerns me more. I think he has a solid floor defensively and his handle/passing give him upside so I expect him to be a useful rotation player, but I'm skeptical his jumper is ever reliable enough to be a full-time starter at PF let alone at SF (I think he's clearly a PF in the NBA). But if he does add strength and gets to 36%+ on 3s...hmmm....

8) RJ Hampton - I could see the intersection of a lack of reliable jumper and his unrefined handle limiting his scoring upside such that he tops out at Gerald Henderson, but the raw scoring flashes with top tier athleticism and solid defensive instincts intrigue me. And at least he was bad against grown men.

9) Tyrell Terry - I'm super into his jumper and shot profile along with the off-ball defensive potential. He's a ways away from being a full-time PG, so he'll need to play off a bigger creator (I would love him in Denver, for instance), but I buy his playmaking potential. His ability to add strength will make or break him.

10) Leandro Balmoro - taking a shot on a potential creator, I haven't seen anything other than a few highlight clips. But why not? Haliburton is a career off-ball guy. Cole Anthony screams the older kid who peaked too early. Kira Lewis and Devon Dotson impress as slashers, but seem too limited as passers to be starting PGs (Lewis is also super skinny). I don't buy Tre Jones ever shooting and Grant Riller seems like a nice bench scorer.

Anyway, Haliburton and Vassel seem like fairly safe bets hereafter but with limited upside. I buy Riller and Bane being very useful NBA rotation players, so maybe you draft them in the lottery over younger perceived upside guys. I don't like Obi Toppin much at all, but I think he could be a useful NBA starter next to a great defensive C, which is more than you can say for most guys in this draft. I get some of the Maxey and Okoro intrigue, but why did reputed defenders rack up so few stocks? Saddiq Bey gives off Lance Thomas vibes. My thoughts on Nesmith are above.

Just a blah draft, though I expect guys like Poku, Williams, Terry, Hampton, and Balmoro to get drafted below where I have them, so teams could find real value later in the 1st round.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject:

There's two things about LaMelo that worry me.

1. He doesn't have actual shake.
2. Footwork on any jumpshot.

I'm all for big PGs. Guys like Luka have above average touch and a reliable step back. Melo has nothing reliable.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
There's two things about LaMelo that worry me.

1. He doesn't have actual shake.
2. Footwork on any jumpshot.

I'm all for big PGs. Guys like Luka have above average touch and a reliable step back. Melo has nothing reliable.

What is shake to you? How does LaMelo lack it? Why does a player have to have shake?

The passing is what's reliable. I also like his handle for his age and size. If you prefer Hayes because of his step-back and "shake," that's cool - they're neck and neck prospects to me and Hayes looks less risky of a bet. I don't understand bringing up a generational talent like Luka, though, when this draft is so weak and lacks a true 1st overall caliber talent. I'm skeptical Hayes and Ball ever develop into good primary initiators, but they're the only guys I see in this draft who could attain that level, so at the top they go.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Shake is a way to get a defender off balance to get by him. It's a compensation for lack of amazing first step. Point guards/initiators tend to need them to create advantages.

If a player doesn't have that, they can compensate with shooting gravity. Defenders have to defend tight because said player can hit pull up/contested shots. That kind of shooting gravity can help an initiator create an advantage in PnR.

Passing works. We know that. But passing + degree of shake + a whiff of shot gravity to me, is an NBA player. Haliburton has passing in spades too. Why isn't he a lead initiator? Lack of physicality. Lack of shake. But better spot up at least. Yet, Melo gets the big nod of elite passing.

I bring up Luka, because he doesn't have a lot of shake. But, he is a big PG, and uses shot gravity with step back, along with floater to show off the passing ability. That's a big part of how advantages are created within PnR.

If you're a defender, how do you defend Melo?

Back off. At least Hayes has the footwork to get off a good pull up.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject:

Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject:

Tillman is out which is a bummer.

Still

Nico Mannion
Isaiah Joe
Tre Jones
Jaden McD
Leandro Bolmaro


Killian Tillie
Skylar Mays
Jared Butler
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Shake is a way to get a defender off balance to get by him. It's a compensation for lack of amazing first step. Point guards/initiators tend to need them to create advantages.

If a player doesn't have that, they can compensate with shooting gravity. Defenders have to defend tight because said player can hit pull up/contested shots. That kind of shooting gravity can help an initiator create an advantage in PnR.

Passing works. We know that. But passing + degree of shake + a whiff of shot gravity to me, is an NBA player. Haliburton has passing in spades too. Why isn't he a lead initiator? Lack of physicality. Lack of shake. But better spot up at least. Yet, Melo gets the big nod of elite passing.

I bring up Luka, because he doesn't have a lot of shake. But, he is a big PG, and uses shot gravity with step back, along with floater to show off the passing ability. That's a big part of how advantages are created within PnR.

If you're a defender, how do you defend Melo?

Back off. At least Hayes has the footwork to get off a good pull up.

I fundamentally disagree then. LeMelo has shake. He does have a poor first step. But he has shake and the foundation of a handle to continue to improve on his elusiveness.

But basically this comes down to you don't trust him to shoot. I wouldn't trust him to shoot either. If he doesn't shoot, he's a career backup if not out of the league. But if he shoots, you have - imo - a clear star. And I'll take a chance on reconstructing Melo's jumper over the Wizard of Oz giving Anthony Edwards a heart or a brain.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.

But Jordan Nwora can be had with a second round pick while Okoro (for some reason) is projected as a lottery pick.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.

But Jordan Nwora can be had with a second round pick while Okoro (for some reason) is projected as a lottery pick.


Agree and just mentioning I am a fan of Nwora.

Similar to how you would take a chance with LaMelo developing his shot and becoming a star I like the odds of Okoro developing a league average 3pt shot and his ball skills. Along with his athleticism and physical attributes that for me is a lottery selection.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.

But Jordan Nwora can be had with a second round pick while Okoro (for some reason) is projected as a lottery pick.


Agree and just mentioning I am a fan of Nwora.

Similar to how you would take a chance with LaMelo developing his shot and becoming a star I like the odds of Okoro developing a league average 3pt shot and his ball skills. Along with his athleticism and physical attributes that for me is a lottery selection.

What are your signs for optimism, re: Okoro's jumper?

Ball has volume and variety/difficulty of 3PAs with some passable signs of efficiency on C&S and above the break threes.

Okoro had a low volume of 3PAs even though teams learned early on to back off and dare him to shoot. He does have an impressive number of FTAs - a testament to his physical talents, off-ball movement, and scoring prowess around the basket - but that's somewhat concerning as he shot sub-70% from the FT line on a larger sample size. And he rarely took movement jumpers coming off screens or off the dribble and was less accurate when doing so (as is the case for most players, ofc). I do like his footwork on his step-back 3PAs and his form doesn't seem to be broken.

I like the kid, but there're diminishing returns when drafting a defensive specialist in the lottery who may not shoot and even if he does shoot seems to have a low probability of ever being more than a fourth scoring option, especially one who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. No matter how athletic he is, he can't be a starting PF against half the NBA with that standing reach, and so he needs the jumper and he realistically needs to be more than a standstill shooter. There's enough good 'do-sh!t' stuff to like there to take him and hope he's an outlier in terms of development, but don't get too disappointed when he tops out as a fun, hardworking backup combo-forward making more money than David Nwaba for similar impact.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject:

^That is part of the reason why I don't have a strong feel for Okoro.

How do you play a wing who has proficiency as a playmaker, an iffy jumper, and won't get the PnR reps next level?

If he was facilitating to two franchise players, then, that would make a wealth of sense. I just don't see that in his projected draft range.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.

But Jordan Nwora can be had with a second round pick while Okoro (for some reason) is projected as a lottery pick.


Agree and just mentioning I am a fan of Nwora.

Similar to how you would take a chance with LaMelo developing his shot and becoming a star I like the odds of Okoro developing a league average 3pt shot and his ball skills. Along with his athleticism and physical attributes that for me is a lottery selection.

What are your signs for optimism, re: Okoro's jumper?

Ball has volume and variety/difficulty of 3PAs with some passable signs of efficiency on C&S and above the break threes.

Okoro had a low volume of 3PAs even though teams learned early on to back off and dare him to shoot. He does have an impressive number of FTAs - a testament to his physical talents, off-ball movement, and scoring prowess around the basket - but that's somewhat concerning as he shot sub-70% from the FT line on a larger sample size. And he rarely took movement jumpers coming off screens or off the dribble and was less accurate when doing so (as is the case for most players, ofc). I do like his footwork on his step-back 3PAs and his form doesn't seem to be broken.

I like the kid, but there're diminishing returns when drafting a defensive specialist in the lottery who may not shoot and even if he does shoot seems to have a low probability of ever being more than a fourth scoring option, especially one who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. No matter how athletic he is, he can't be a starting PF against half the NBA with that standing reach, and so he needs the jumper and he realistically needs to be more than a standstill shooter. There's enough good 'do-sh!t' stuff to like there to take him and hope he's an outlier in terms of development, but don't get too disappointed when he tops out as a fun, hardworking backup combo-forward making more money than David Nwaba for similar impact.


I take into consideration he is only 19, his shooting mechanics is not broken and with many current NBA players he will improve given professional development. I am not sure why all the hesitancy his shooting cannot improve.

I am not concerned with his wingspan as it is good enough. I guess I need to ask why Brandon Clarke was such a favorite of yours and considered a lottery talent when his wingspan = Okoro, showed no shooting skills in college while his age was +4 years?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Just feels odd with the NBA draft still 3 months away. Hopefully they will have pro-days so we have access to videos of the players. Nice to see some recent postings and I will try to add periodically. Although listed at approximately the same height/weight here are 2 prospects that are the antithesis of each other.

Isaac Okoro checks off a lot of NBA value boxes for me. Physically ready to compete. Above average athleticism, quickness, vertical and strength. Possesses good body control and length and while muscular he has shown the potential to be a + defender having the ability to mirror side to side. Offensively he has shown ability as a straight line driver and with proper training I project his shooting will improve to NBA average. For me he is solid lottery and projects as a long term SF starter.

Jordan Nwora checks off very few NBA value boxes. At this time his one NBA skill is shooting while being very average to below average physically and athletically. I believe this athleticism and ball skills will improve with professional training but he is a low floor low ceiling type of player. My best projection would be a Dillon Brooks type who is a good NBA talent.

But Jordan Nwora can be had with a second round pick while Okoro (for some reason) is projected as a lottery pick.


Agree and just mentioning I am a fan of Nwora.

Similar to how you would take a chance with LaMelo developing his shot and becoming a star I like the odds of Okoro developing a league average 3pt shot and his ball skills. Along with his athleticism and physical attributes that for me is a lottery selection.

What are your signs for optimism, re: Okoro's jumper?

Ball has volume and variety/difficulty of 3PAs with some passable signs of efficiency on C&S and above the break threes.

Okoro had a low volume of 3PAs even though teams learned early on to back off and dare him to shoot. He does have an impressive number of FTAs - a testament to his physical talents, off-ball movement, and scoring prowess around the basket - but that's somewhat concerning as he shot sub-70% from the FT line on a larger sample size. And he rarely took movement jumpers coming off screens or off the dribble and was less accurate when doing so (as is the case for most players, ofc). I do like his footwork on his step-back 3PAs and his form doesn't seem to be broken.

I like the kid, but there're diminishing returns when drafting a defensive specialist in the lottery who may not shoot and even if he does shoot seems to have a low probability of ever being more than a fourth scoring option, especially one who's 6'5 with a 6'8 wingspan. No matter how athletic he is, he can't be a starting PF against half the NBA with that standing reach, and so he needs the jumper and he realistically needs to be more than a standstill shooter. There's enough good 'do-sh!t' stuff to like there to take him and hope he's an outlier in terms of development, but don't get too disappointed when he tops out as a fun, hardworking backup combo-forward making more money than David Nwaba for similar impact.


I take into consideration he is only 19, his shooting mechanics is not broken and with many current NBA players he will improve given professional development. I am not sure why all the hesitancy his shooting cannot improve.

I am not concerned with his wingspan as it is good enough. I guess I need to ask why Brandon Clarke was such a favorite of yours and considered a lottery talent when his wingspan = Okoro, showed no shooting skills in college while his age was +4 years?

Again, I don't dislike Okoro - I like him much more than Nassir Little as a comparison. Draft him in the 2020 lottery by all means.

I anticipated your question vis-a-vis Clarke, and 1) Clarke can comfortably play 4/small-ball 5 whereas Okoro is a 3/4 who'll be more reliant on perimeter skill than Clarke, and 2) Clarke demonstrated some elite defensive tendencies even as a freshman big whereas I'm skeptical Okoro's stocks production translates to the NBA given that Okoro's defense impact is skewed towards blocks coming from a 6'5 guy that he won't get in the NBA.

If Okoro were 6'8, he'd be a top-5 pick on my board. But he isn't 6'8.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject:

Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject:

Lakers pick:

With Xavier Tillman withdrawing, my choices as the Lakers draft guru by proxy are given likely available options (in order):

Desmond Bane
Devon Dotson
Grant Riller
Killian Tillie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject:

Lastly, Devon Dotson is a much better prospect than Grant Riller even though I love Grant Riller.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:15 pm    Post subject:

I can't see Dotson outside of a 2 playing.1 with a weird gather prior to the iffy jumper.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I can't see Dotson outside of a 2 playing.1 with a weird gather prior to the iffy jumper.

What do you see Riller as outside of a 2 playing 1?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I can't see Dotson outside of a 2 playing.1 with a weird gather prior to the iffy jumper.

What do you see Riller as outside of a 2 playing 1?


Size, better iso handle, better shooting under contest. Just a very clear cut Lou Will prototype.

Can't play Dotson at 2.

Apparently I'm also higher on Nico Mannion than most. Just read that Isaiah Joe may return back to school. Makes sense considering his knee injury last year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:09 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.


I never understood the high praise Clarke received for his defense in college. While his analytics were very good I did not believe it would effectively transition to the NBA.

Besides being explosive vertically I did not see any other special attribute he possessed to be a standout defender at PF/C. Average physically at 6'8", <210 lbs and yes a longer wingspan would surely have minimized some of these shortcomings.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.


I never understood the high praise Clarke received for his defense in college. While his analytics were very good I did not believe it would effectively transition to the NBA.

Besides being explosive vertically I did not see any other special attribute he possessed to be a standout defender at PF/C. Average physically at 6'8", <210 lbs and yes a longer wingspan would surely have minimized some of these shortcomings.


All based on his ability to anticipate, take charges, make correct rotations, and most importantly, verticality at the rim.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.


I never understood the high praise Clarke received for his defense in college. While his analytics were very good I did not believe it would effectively transition to the NBA.

Besides being explosive vertically I did not see any other special attribute he possessed to be a standout defender at PF/C. Average physically at 6'8", <210 lbs and yes a longer wingspan would surely have minimized some of these shortcomings.


All based on his ability to anticipate, take charges, make correct rotations, and most importantly, verticality at the rim.

Quick feet, great body control in air, as well.

Regardless, he's already historically efficient offensively and is second only to Morant as a rookie in his class so far (obviously Zion will surpass him). If even some of his defensive impact picks up - and this is true for JJJ, as well - I expect he'll have star impact on low usage.

Getting Melton and Clarke for so little was smart, but should've been obvious to every other team that passed on them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.


Just to clarify I see Okoro's height listed as 6'6" and in a video by Mike Schmitz listed his wingspan as 6'10". He did a physical comparison with current NBA players while also analyzing his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLpH257yNg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Also, Clarke's elite offensive efficiency has carried over, but the elite defensive efficiency in college so far hasn't carried over to the pros, and I admit my fault in evaluating Clarke if his defense doesn't improve. I'm curiousz though, if his defensive presence remains scant, is it because of his wingspan?

Anyway, just also thinking of Okoro's wingspan.


Just to clarify I see Okoro's height listed as 6'6" and in a video by Mike Schmitz listed his wingspan as 6'10". He did a physical comparison with current NBA players while also analyzing his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLpH257yNg

Huh. Sucks to not have a proper combine.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

Okoro's growing on me.

I'm still skeptical Cole Anthony is a starting caliber PG in the NBA. Maybe like Mo Williams playing off a bigger initiator?
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