When Kobe doesn't have a 2nd star he puts together all-time/historic scoring seasons and breaks all sorts of scoring records. (see 2006 and 2007)
While going lotto or losing in round 1....
And Hakeem lost in the first round 8 times with more talented rosters.
Post these rosters. Let's see which Rocket was better than Lamar Odom from 05-07.
A pre-injury Ralph Sampson who was averaging 21 Pts 17 Rebs in the Playoffs
Oh, in his ROOKIE season?
Yes, you are correct. In Dream's first year in the league he couldn't get past round 1 with Sampson. The next year they only made the Finals, and Sampson got hurt after that. Dream didn't get another star teammate until 1995 (he ringed without one in 1994). But yes, in his very first season the bum couldn't get it done. "Good catch."
How many excuses are you going to make? You asked who was better than Odom right?
He also had Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and got swept out the first round. Then he had Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe lost 1-3 in the first round for a couple years straight.
98 he had Clyde and Barkley lost in the First Round. 99 he had Scottie and Barkley same results.
I gave you credit for Sampson. He’s the one player you listed that was better than Odom. The next season they went to the Finals. Kobe was round 1 or lotto three straight years with Odom, until another star was gifted to him.
Dream was post prime in 98.
The other guys you mentioned weren’t as good as Odom. Not even Maxwell or Thorpe, who he ringed with.
If you want to throw in rookie seasons and post prime years we can do that. It won’t work in your favor though.
Odom wasn't a Star he never made the Allstar Team, but he was a very gifted role player. Sleepy Floyd and Otis Thorpe atleast made an allstar team and even averaged more points than hakeem in the playoffs some years.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Anyone with a lot of time analizing... one thing you can do is see how each player had and has been utilized by each respective coaches during their entire career. Kobe played 80-90% of his bball under phil jakson whose style could never generate lots of assists for the ball handlers ( see fisher, pippen, kobe). Lebron on the other hand, has played under coaches and system that have allowed or made higher assists pwr game possible. Besides, each has been playing a different role most of the time. Bron plays close to the basket defensively most of his career while kobe on the perimeter at thw point of guarding opponents best wings or forwards. So in rebound department it's a sky blue thing that Bron has had more. It is of no wonder. Just like a center who you would expect to have more in rebounding dept. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
When Kobe doesn't have a 2nd star he puts together all-time/historic scoring seasons and breaks all sorts of scoring records. (see 2006 and 2007)
While going lotto or losing in round 1....
And Hakeem lost in the first round 8 times with more talented rosters.
Post these rosters. Let's see which Rocket was better than Lamar Odom from 05-07.
A pre-injury Ralph Sampson who was averaging 21 Pts 17 Rebs in the Playoffs
Oh, in his ROOKIE season?
Yes, you are correct. In Dream's first year in the league he couldn't get past round 1 with Sampson. The next year they only made the Finals, and Sampson got hurt after that. Dream didn't get another star teammate until 1995 (he ringed without one in 1994). But yes, in his very first season the bum couldn't get it done. "Good catch."
How many excuses are you going to make? You asked who was better than Odom right?
He also had Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and got swept out the first round. Then he had Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe lost 1-3 in the first round for a couple years straight.
98 he had Clyde and Barkley lost in the First Round. 99 he had Scottie and Barkley same results.
I gave you credit for Sampson. He’s the one player you listed that was better than Odom. The next season they went to the Finals. Kobe was round 1 or lotto three straight years with Odom, until another star was gifted to him.
Dream was post prime in 98.
The other guys you mentioned weren’t as good as Odom. Not even Maxwell or Thorpe, who he ringed with.
If you want to throw in rookie seasons and post prime years we can do that. It won’t work in your favor though.
Odom wasn't a Star he never made the Allstar Team, but he was a very gifted role player. Sleepy Floyd and Otis Thorpe atleast made an allstar team and even averaged more points than hakeem in the playoffs some years.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
True. Odom has never been an all star. However, he and Gasol had had the best of their career with Kobe n Phil Jackson. If he had played with other players and coaches... I doubt it. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Funny thing about what so called a lakers fan who takes joy in anything that degrades kobe bryant while shouting superlative joy over anything superlative about Bron.
Funny thing about what so called a lakers fan who takes joy in anything that degrades kobe bryant while shouting superlative joy over anything superlative about Bron.
Anyone with a lot of time analizing... one thing you can do is see how each player had and has been utilized by each respective coaches during their entire career. Kobe played 80-90% of his bball under phil jakson whose style could never generate lots of assists for the ball handlers ( see fisher, pippen, kobe). Lebron on the other hand, has played under coaches and system that have allowed or made higher assists pwr game possible. Besides, each has been playing a different role most of the time. Bron plays close to the basket defensively most of his career while kobe on the perimeter at thw point of guarding opponents best wings or forwards. So in rebound department it's a sky blue thing that Bron has had more. It is of no wonder. Just like a center who you would expect to have more in rebounding dept.
Yeah..little things like context might matter, one might think Lol
Just thought I'd throw this in this thread for the heck of it, but I personally believe Kobe's best season was 02-03...just his smoothest season...best physique, his smoothest looking fadeaway, he looked like he had a bit more hop in his step, and hang time in his jumper. His defense was on point, and he had essentially taken on the role as "the man" while playing with Shaq. Seems like the more muscle he built throughout the years, the less athletic he got (to an extent, he wasn't quite the flashy dunker he was post 04 then in his afro days), not including 03-04, where he was simply out of shape...where as it was quite the opposite with LBJ. The more muscle James built, the more of a tank he became.
Here's a highlight video of Kobe game 6 against the Wolves in the 03 playoffs, showcases how great he was at such a young age with 3 titles already on his resume -
Just thought I'd throw this in this thread for the heck of it, but I personally believe Kobe's best season was 02-03...just his smoothest season...best physique, his smoothest looking fadeaway, he looked like he had a bit more hop in his step, and hang time in his jumper. His defense was on point, and he had essentially taken on the role as "the man" while playing with Shaq. Seems like the more muscle he built throughout the years, the less athletic he got (to an extent, he wasn't quite the flashy dunker he was post 04 then in his afro days), not including 03-04, where he was simply out of shape...where as it was quite the opposite with LBJ. The more muscle James built, the more of a tank he became.
Here's a highlight video of Kobe game 6 against the Wolves in the 03 playoffs, showcases how great he was at such a young age with 3 titles already on his resume -
When Kobe doesn't have a 2nd star he puts together all-time/historic scoring seasons and breaks all sorts of scoring records. (see 2006 and 2007)
While going lotto or losing in round 1....
And Hakeem lost in the first round 8 times with more talented rosters.
Post these rosters. Let's see which Rocket was better than Lamar Odom from 05-07.
A pre-injury Ralph Sampson who was averaging 21 Pts 17 Rebs in the Playoffs
Oh, in his ROOKIE season?
Yes, you are correct. In Dream's first year in the league he couldn't get past round 1 with Sampson. The next year they only made the Finals, and Sampson got hurt after that. Dream didn't get another star teammate until 1995 (he ringed without one in 1994). But yes, in his very first season the bum couldn't get it done. "Good catch."
How many excuses are you going to make? You asked who was better than Odom right?
He also had Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and got swept out the first round. Then he had Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe lost 1-3 in the first round for a couple years straight.
98 he had Clyde and Barkley lost in the First Round. 99 he had Scottie and Barkley same results.
I gave you credit for Sampson. He’s the one player you listed that was better than Odom. The next season they went to the Finals. Kobe was round 1 or lotto three straight years with Odom, until another star was gifted to him.
Dream was post prime in 98.
The other guys you mentioned weren’t as good as Odom. Not even Maxwell or Thorpe, who he ringed with.
If you want to throw in rookie seasons and post prime years we can do that. It won’t work in your favor though.
Odom wasn't a Star he never made the Allstar Team, but he was a very gifted role player. Sleepy Floyd and Otis Thorpe atleast made an allstar team and even averaged more points than hakeem in the playoffs some years.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Hakeem had ample help in 1990 to beat....LA in round 1?
if you love pure scorers, then Kobe is your guy. If you love complete all-around players, then LeBron is your guy. This debate will never be over, but as time goes on, Kobe only has the “TWO more rings” argument to fall back on.
Kobe is the greatest pure scorer of all time, or at least the greatest pure scorer I have ever seen, and I saw almost every home game in person he played from 2003 to 2011 when my daughter was born. To me it's an apples an oranges comparison, because LeBron is a very good scorer, a very efficient scorer, but taking over a game with his scoring and going completely bananas is just not his thing. He CAN do it and does do it, but not with enthusiam or skill of prime Kobe. LeBron is most effective combining his scoring with his skill setting guys up.
Sometimes you want the Ribeye other times the New York cut.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Oh, please. The 1990 Rockets were a 41-41 team going up against a 63-win Lakers team.
The Rockets were a great defensive team, mostly because of Hakeem, and a poor offensive team.
You really think the reason the Rockets (who just barely squeezed into playoffs lost to the Lakers (who had the league's best record) is because "Hakeem just couldn't get it done"? Really? C'mon.
All these random darts you're throwing aren't even hitting the board.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Oh, please. The 1990 Rockets were a 41-41 team going up against a 63-win Lakers team.
The Rockets were a great defensive team, mostly because of Hakeem, and a poor offensive team.
You really think the reason the Rockets (who just barely squeezed into playoffs lost to the Lakers (who had the league's best record) is because "Hakeem just couldn't get it done"? Really? C'mon.
All these random darts you're throwing aren't even hitting the board.
I guess you missed the part where Dreamshake said Kobe was losing in the first round with Odom as ‘help’ with no context to that they were playing the Dantoni Suns who also were a 60 win team.
I’m just taking his arguments and spitting it back at him. It’s funny that opponent strength didn’t matter when Kobe was being bashed, but now it’s the primary excuse when I start criticizing his boy.
Last edited by crazylakerfan001 on Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
He also had Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and got swept out the first round.
*screeeeeeech*
Hold on. Did you really just name Joe Barely Cares as an elite teammate? Good heavens. All I can think is that you must not have been around back then and that you must just be pulling names out of the archives. I can understand why you might think that Sleepy Floyd was a good player, because he had a couple good years earlier in his career. But Joe Barely Cares?
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Oh, please. The 1990 Rockets were a 41-41 team going up against a 63-win Lakers team.
The Rockets were a great defensive team, mostly because of Hakeem, and a poor offensive team.
You really think the reason the Rockets (who just barely squeezed into playoffs lost to the Lakers (who had the league's best record) is because "Hakeem just couldn't get it done"? Really? C'mon.
All these random darts you're throwing aren't even hitting the board.
I guess you missed the part where Dreamshake said Kobe was losing in the first round with Odom as ‘help’ with no context to that they were playing the Dantoni Suns who also were a 60 win team.
I’m just taking his arguments and spitting it back at him. It’s funny that opponent strength didn’t matter when Kobe was being bashed, but now it’s the primary excuse when I start criticizing his boy.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Oh, please. The 1990 Rockets were a 41-41 team going up against a 63-win Lakers team.
The Rockets were a great defensive team, mostly because of Hakeem, and a poor offensive team.
You really think the reason the Rockets (who just barely squeezed into playoffs lost to the Lakers (who had the league's best record) is because "Hakeem just couldn't get it done"? Really? C'mon.
All these random darts you're throwing aren't even hitting the board.
I guess you missed the part where Dreamshake said Kobe was losing in the first round with Odom as ‘help’ with no context to that they were playing the Dantoni Suns who also were a 60 win team.
I’m just taking his arguments and spitting it back at him. It’s funny that opponent strength didn’t matter when Kobe was being bashed, but now it’s the primary excuse when I start criticizing his boy.
Hey, if you want to spend your time making stupid arguments in response to stupid arguments, knock yourself out.
When people talk about all around game are we talking about defense as well? Or just rebounds and assists? Because I do think Kobe sustained a much better defensive career than Lebron has. That would be considered all around wouldnt it?
When Kobe doesn't have a 2nd star he puts together all-time/historic scoring seasons and breaks all sorts of scoring records. (see 2006 and 2007)
While going lotto or losing in round 1....
And Hakeem lost in the first round 8 times with more talented rosters.
Post these rosters. Let's see which Rocket was better than Lamar Odom from 05-07.
A pre-injury Ralph Sampson who was averaging 21 Pts 17 Rebs in the Playoffs
Oh, in his ROOKIE season?
Yes, you are correct. In Dream's first year in the league he couldn't get past round 1 with Sampson. The next year they only made the Finals, and Sampson got hurt after that. Dream didn't get another star teammate until 1995 (he ringed without one in 1994). But yes, in his very first season the bum couldn't get it done. "Good catch."
How many excuses are you going to make? You asked who was better than Odom right?
He also had Sleepy Floyd and Joe Barry Carroll and got swept out the first round. Then he had Vernon Maxwell and Otis Thorpe lost 1-3 in the first round for a couple years straight.
98 he had Clyde and Barkley lost in the First Round. 99 he had Scottie and Barkley same results.
I gave you credit for Sampson. He’s the one player you listed that was better than Odom. The next season they went to the Finals. Kobe was round 1 or lotto three straight years with Odom, until another star was gifted to him.
Dream was post prime in 98.
The other guys you mentioned weren’t as good as Odom. Not even Maxwell or Thorpe, who he ringed with.
If you want to throw in rookie seasons and post prime years we can do that. It won’t work in your favor though.
Odom wasn't a Star he never made the Allstar Team, but he was a very gifted role player. Sleepy Floyd and Otis Thorpe atleast made an allstar team and even averaged more points than hakeem in the playoffs some years.
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.
Hakeem had ample help in 1990 to beat....LA in round 1?
Dude just stop....nobody outside Houston believes Hakeem was better than Kobe....not in talent, not in titles, not in anything. I would have loved to see the 2000 version of Shaquille (matured, sick of losing and completely focused) go up against the 1995 version of Hakeem. Pretty sure Dream would have plenty of dunks slammed in his face and in no way does Hakeem outplay that version of Shaq at his apex.
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