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ringfinger
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 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | epak wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | History has proven that both Kobe and Lebron have had some terrible playoff and finals games.
Sorry. They can’t all be Tim Duncan or Hakeem or Larry Legend or some dude named Chauncey. 😂 |
Chauncy: scored 13 points twice in the 05 finals 
Duncan: 14 pts on 6-17 followed by 12 pts on 4-15 shooting in the 07 finals
Hakeem: No stinkers. But get him out of here with his 2 finals rings 
Larry: Back to back 8 point on 3-11 shooting games in '81
Hakeem was a beast. But I'm sure if Jordan didn't retire and he made more finals, he would have had a stinker or 2 or 3 |
What is “terrible”? I mean, 14 on 6-17 seems like an off night but not like particularly bad. |
Sure chalk it up to an off night. Then let him follow it up with a 4-15 12 pointer the next game where he also went 4-10 at the FT line. Does that get it a little towards "a little bad"? |
Maybe? Guess it was more of a philosophical question. Rather than a Duncan specific one.
For example, in 2005, Billups averaged 16.5 ppg. Would 13 pts be .. outlandishly bad for a 16.5 ppg player?
You don’t have to answer that per se, I am just thinking about approx how off the average it has to be. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe could thrive under any team, regardless of roster configuration.
LeBron needs things to fit his system of play more, I think.
I just see Kobe as far more versatile, in the end |
Disagree. He was more effective in a system as he was under Phil. Not sure if he ever got past the second round without Phil’s system.
Under the right conditions, Kobe was incredible. But his teams always failed to succeed without those conditions in place (Phil, Derek, etc) |
Tad more variables at play than that alone, I think |
Yeah, I suppose it’s just as likely he could thrive in any system as he could not thrive in any system. |
More likely that he Could. He’s an all time great, after all. Most Hall of Famers could succeed in most situations |
Hope aside, I don’t see any evidence of this. Plus, I mean lets be fair, Kobester had some real stinkers away from Phil including a paltry 17 win season.
When surrounded by the right players and system, you get the best of Kobe. |
I can't think of any many times when Kobe's teams performed poorly other than when there were injuries involved, or the players around Kobe were bad.
I dont consider that a question of systems or the "right players. It's a question of needing good teammates who stay healthy.
The notion that the Lakers 17 win season was due to them not having the right system or the right players around Kobe is beyond ridiculous. He was 37 years old and his body was riddled with injuries.
Last edited by activeverb on Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe could thrive under any team, regardless of roster configuration.
LeBron needs things to fit his system of play more, I think.
I just see Kobe as far more versatile, in the end |
Disagree. He was more effective in a system as he was under Phil. Not sure if he ever got past the second round without Phil’s system.
Under the right conditions, Kobe was incredible. But his teams always failed to succeed without those conditions in place (Phil, Derek, etc) |
Tad more variables at play than that alone, I think |
Yeah, I suppose it’s just as likely he could thrive in any system as he could not thrive in any system. |
More likely that he Could. He’s an all time great, after all. Most Hall of Famers could succeed in most situations |
Hope aside, I don’t see any evidence of this. Plus, I mean lets be fair, Kobester had some real stinkers away from Phil including a paltry 17 win season.
When surrounded by the right players and system, you get the best of Kobe. |
I can't think of any many times when Kobe's teams performed poorly other than when there were injuries involved, or the players around Kobe were bad.
I dont consider that a question of systems or the "right players. It's a question of needing good teammates who stay healthy. |
Depends on your bar for poorly. We’re dealing with a lot of different perspectives on that from rings or bust on down. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | History has proven that both Kobe and Lebron have had some terrible playoff and finals games.
Sorry. They can’t all be Tim Duncan or Hakeem or Larry Legend or some dude named Chauncey. 😂 |
Yes and no.
Without Kobe, no threepeat.
Without Shaq, no threepeat.
People forget, how many times young Kobe saved the franchise.
I need not dig the records. They are still fresh here.
For example: "Kobe to Shaq!!!!" is IMMORTAL to witnessing fans.
And Shaq running like a kid after the dunk...and the arena erupted at 9 on the reichter scale.
Remember 8,8,0,0?
Ask Iverson.
Or ask Reggie, Mark Jackson... how it was to face a not fully healthy Kobe?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Not weighing in on your whole debate. But this last post doesn't really hold much water. This was the last 7 games before Kobe tore his achilles.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes Win 19 pts, 14 assists, 9 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/2/2013- 47 minutes Win 23 pts, 11 assists, 11 Rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
4/5/2013- 42 minutes Win 24 pts, 9 assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/7/2013- 47 minutes Loss 25 pts, 10 assists, 7 Rebounds,
4/9/2013- 41 minutes Win 30 pts, 6 assists, 6 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block
4/10/2013- 48 minutes Win 47 pts, 5 assists, 8 Rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks
4/12/2013- 45 minutes Win 34 pts, 4 assists, 5 Rebounds
I guess you could say Phil wouldn't have played him all those minutes. To which I agree. But I think you were implying Kobe couldn't have been championship level effective with another coach. And I think the stats or game results don't back that up.
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Not weighing in on your whole debate. But this last post doesn't really hold much water. This was the last 7 games before Kobe tore his achilles.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes Win 19 pts, 14 assists, 9 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/2/2013- 47 minutes Win 23 pts, 11 assists, 11 Rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
4/5/2013- 42 minutes Win 24 pts, 9 assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/7/2013- 47 minutes Loss 25 pts, 10 assists, 7 Rebounds,
4/9/2013- 41 minutes Win 30 pts, 6 assists, 6 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block
4/10/2013- 48 minutes Win 47 pts, 5 assists, 8 Rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks
4/12/2013- 45 minutes Win 34 pts, 4 assists, 5 Rebounds
I guess you could say Phil wouldn't have played him all those minutes. To which I agree. But I think you were implying Kobe couldn't have been championship level effective with another coach. And I think the stats or game results don't back that up. |
For a 35 yr old to still play defense at that level is amazing... MJ on Kobe...
Anyone who fails to see how Kobe carried that old and weary team is blind.
I still want to kill the coach and Howard though... soft...
Ooppsss...
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Kobe can play at any system. He had played a controlled triangle.
He had proven what he was capable of in terms of scoring without another partner ... a scoring beast like MJ.
You gave him good partner(s) he would make them thrive more without having to totally dominate the ball. Odom, Gasol, Artest.
He had faced any defensive scheme on earth and adjusted accordingly. He admitted though he did not prepare the team well to face the defensive juggernauts in 2004. But the loss probably turned him into an unstoppable scoring beast.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Not weighing in on your whole debate. But this last post doesn't really hold much water. This was the last 7 games before Kobe tore his achilles.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes Win 19 pts, 14 assists, 9 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/2/2013- 47 minutes Win 23 pts, 11 assists, 11 Rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
4/5/2013- 42 minutes Win 24 pts, 9 assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/7/2013- 47 minutes Loss 25 pts, 10 assists, 7 Rebounds,
4/9/2013- 41 minutes Win 30 pts, 6 assists, 6 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block
4/10/2013- 48 minutes Win 47 pts, 5 assists, 8 Rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks
4/12/2013- 45 minutes Win 34 pts, 4 assists, 5 Rebounds
I guess you could say Phil wouldn't have played him all those minutes. To which I agree. But I think you were implying Kobe couldn't have been championship level effective with another coach. And I think the stats or game results don't back that up. |
That team wasn’t very good and was a massive failure relative to expectations. We barely even made the playoffs that season.
Under Phil, we too were the 7th seed, led by Bryant with an even worse roster (~2006 years). |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think Lakers got the wrong types of players during the achilles season. In hindsight, Kobe and Gasol should have been surround more mobile players... we needed a pg to lessen the playmaking of Kobe. Remember the CP3 thingy? You dare say Kobe cannot coexist with Wade? Lmao. What was the purpose of a PG like CP3? Crrtainly...so Kobe could use his energy more efficiently of the ball. Youknow those bumpings and body contacts as a playmaker would soon wear anybody down.
We finally got a pg. But old and injured prone "Here's to your MVP". (Look at my Kobe top 5 dunks...p  )
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | I think Lakers got the wrong types of players during the achilles season. In hindsight, Kobe and Gasol should have been surround more mobile players... we needed a pg to lessen the playmaking of Kobe. Remember the CP3 thingy? You dare say Kobe cannot coexist with Wade? Lmao. What was the purpose of a PG like CP3? Crrtainly...so Kobe could use his energy more efficiently of the ball. Youknow those bumpings and body contacts as a playmaker would soon wear anybody down.
We finally got a pg. But old and injured prone "Here's to your MVP". (Look at my Kobe top 5 dunks...p ) |
Didn’t we try the PG thing with Ramon Sessions and Kobe wanted us to slow it down for him?
Look, he’s my favorite player, but he was very much a my way or the highway type of guy. Only Phil could really reign him in. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Not weighing in on your whole debate. But this last post doesn't really hold much water. This was the last 7 games before Kobe tore his achilles.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes Win 19 pts, 14 assists, 9 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/2/2013- 47 minutes Win 23 pts, 11 assists, 11 Rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
4/5/2013- 42 minutes Win 24 pts, 9 assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/7/2013- 47 minutes Loss 25 pts, 10 assists, 7 Rebounds,
4/9/2013- 41 minutes Win 30 pts, 6 assists, 6 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block
4/10/2013- 48 minutes Win 47 pts, 5 assists, 8 Rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks
4/12/2013- 45 minutes Win 34 pts, 4 assists, 5 Rebounds
I guess you could say Phil wouldn't have played him all those minutes. To which I agree. But I think you were implying Kobe couldn't have been championship level effective with another coach. And I think the stats or game results don't back that up. |
That team wasn’t very good and was a massive failure relative to expectations. We barely even made the playoffs that season.
Under Phil, we too were the 7th seed, led by Bryant with an even worse roster (~2006 years). |
Team was fine with Kobe on the court. MDA couldn't find a way to get + minutes when he was off the floor. Despite having Pau and Dwight.
I think we are agreeing.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
Not weighing in on your whole debate. But this last post doesn't really hold much water. This was the last 7 games before Kobe tore his achilles.
3/30/2013 - 47 minutes Win 19 pts, 14 assists, 9 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/2/2013- 47 minutes Win 23 pts, 11 assists, 11 Rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
4/5/2013- 42 minutes Win 24 pts, 9 assists, 5 Rebounds, 2 steals
4/7/2013- 47 minutes Loss 25 pts, 10 assists, 7 Rebounds,
4/9/2013- 41 minutes Win 30 pts, 6 assists, 6 Rebounds, 5 steals, 1 block
4/10/2013- 48 minutes Win 47 pts, 5 assists, 8 Rebounds, 3 steals, 4 blocks
4/12/2013- 45 minutes Win 34 pts, 4 assists, 5 Rebounds
I guess you could say Phil wouldn't have played him all those minutes. To which I agree. But I think you were implying Kobe couldn't have been championship level effective with another coach. And I think the stats or game results don't back that up. |
That team wasn’t very good and was a massive failure relative to expectations. We barely even made the playoffs that season.
Under Phil, we too were the 7th seed, led by Bryant with an even worse roster (~2006 years). |
Team was fine with Kobe on the court. MDA couldn't find a way to get + minutes when he was off the floor. Despite having Pau and Dwight.
I think we might be agreeing. |
Yeah, I wondered why it felt like we were disagreeing. Kobe’s going to put his numbers anywhere under any team. I mean, who is going to stop Kobe from shooting? Haha.
But I never saw Kobe thrive under any coach under than Phil. You might call playing 45 mpg and having to break away from what the coach wanted in order to eek into the playoffs as thriving under MDA but I just see it the opposite way given he didn’t have to do all of that, with less talented teammates, under Phil to achieve the same 7th seed finish.
So that’s what I was getting at earlier. Could he? Ok maybe but I just never saw it. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | ^
That's a say-nothing statement.
Tell me, specifically, what seasons you thought the Lakers failure was due to the Lakers not having the right system or not having the right players around Kobe?(and my "right" players I assume you mean types of players, rather than the talent of the players.)
How many seasons, exactly, do you feel fall into this category? And which seasons were they? |
Phil and the triangle got more out of Kobe than any other coach Kobe has played for.
Is it possible another coach and/or system could have gotten equally as much or more out of Kobe? Maybe. But I don’t see any evidence of it. |
I asked you a specific question about a statement you made. Instead of answering the question, you responded with a sweeping generalization.
That pretty much answers the question, don't you think? |
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clutchkobe
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| i have had the great fortune of having season tickets while kobe played for the los angeles lakers.....Every game i would be so excited because i never knew what kobe would do that night.....It was always amazing.....always... i dont get that same joy watching lebron....Yes lebron is good but (yawn) i dont have the same OMG did you see that.....I dont get that with lebron....i just clap and yell yeah.....Its not the same. Even the old hurt kobe was amazing.....I miss kobe so much.....but glad we have AD and lebron. Not the same though. Not the same. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | That’s interesting Dreamshake that you tend to favor bigs.
When you say favor, what is your criteria? Favor based on what?
I typically go with guards when picking based on who is more skilled.
But if I have to build a team, maybe I go with a big, because they tend to be more rare. |
I just think it takes less support around them to win. What if my team isn’t in a major market like LA? If my big can score in high numbers then I’d rather have him and the extra defensive impact, plus controlling the glass.
The new league is making me reconsider this, although I think the guys I named would still dominate today. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | if Kobe, Dwade, Chris Bosh playing in the east would have 4+ championships |
I don't know how people can make assertions like this.
What is Kobe's fit with these guys?
Do Wade/Bosh deteriorate in play the same way they did by the end of their Heat tenure? Does Bosh retire early and so on. Winning 2 out of 4 rings is still a feat. |
The difference would be Kobe and Miami's deep bench.
Kobe and Wade could easily taking turn as playmaker.
Wade and Bosh certainly were better than Gasol and Odom.
Bosh did not have to be a spot shooter with Wade and Kobe because Kobe could and had proved he could attack the crowded basket with Shaq down low. In fact, Bosh would easily score more easier points with Wade and Kobe.
When you take into account the shooters around the three players, it would be tge opponents' choice to let them attack the basket or get killed by three.
Along with Battier, Kobe, Wade and Bosh could certainly be deadly defensive squad as well. And yes, they got one who would take the last shots if needed. |
Wait....Miami had a deep bench?
I see all this emphasis on scoring and not addressing the defense and rebounding LeBron brought to the table playing PF in Miami. He led them in rebounding the last 3 seasons and each year they won. Swapping out a big and adding another guard isn't going to help you beat Dirk and Duncan when your remaining bigs are Bosh (grabbing like 6 boards a game some seasons) and guys like Anderson or old Haslem. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The only thing that is certain for me is that Kobe would not have shat the bed as badly as LBJ did against Dallas. Other than that I’m not sure if he would do better or worse than LBJ for the 3 finals thereafter. |
How can you be certain of that if you watched Kobe shat the bed vs Detroit? |
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LaLaLakeShow
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Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The only thing that is certain for me is that Kobe would not have shat the bed as badly as LBJ did against Dallas. Other than that I’m not sure if he would do better or worse than LBJ for the 3 finals thereafter. |
How can you be certain of that if you watched Kobe shat the bed vs Detroit? |
You’re comparing Detroit’s defense to the Mavericks’?? |
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george w kush
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Posts: 1171
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | if Kobe, Dwade, Chris Bosh playing in the east would have 4+ championships |
I don't know how people can make assertions like this.
What is Kobe's fit with these guys?
Do Wade/Bosh deteriorate in play the same way they did by the end of their Heat tenure? Does Bosh retire early and so on. Winning 2 out of 4 rings is still a feat. |
The difference would be Kobe and Miami's deep bench.
Kobe and Wade could easily taking turn as playmaker.
Wade and Bosh certainly were better than Gasol and Odom.
Bosh did not have to be a spot shooter with Wade and Kobe because Kobe could and had proved he could attack the crowded basket with Shaq down low. In fact, Bosh would easily score more easier points with Wade and Kobe.
When you take into account the shooters around the three players, it would be tge opponents' choice to let them attack the basket or get killed by three.
Along with Battier, Kobe, Wade and Bosh could certainly be deadly defensive squad as well. And yes, they got one who would take the last shots if needed. |
Wait....Miami had a deep bench?
I see all this emphasis on scoring and not addressing the defense and rebounding LeBron brought to the table playing PF in Miami. He led them in rebounding the last 3 seasons and each year they won. Swapping out a big and adding another guard isn't going to help you beat Dirk and Duncan when your remaining bigs are Bosh (grabbing like 6 boards a game some seasons) and guys like Anderson or old Haslem. |
Don’t forget LeBron’s passing as well. But yet according to some posters, Kobe is all of a sudden going to turn into LeBron by shooting less and passing and rebounding more He shat the bed against Detroit and Boston but we’re supposed to think he’d be at least as good or better then LeBron in a Heat uniform.
I won’t bother posting the Kobe/LeBron playoff and final statistics comparison because I don’t want to beat a dead horse. |
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The only thing that is certain for me is that Kobe would not have shat the bed as badly as LBJ did against Dallas. Other than that I’m not sure if he would do better or worse than LBJ for the 3 finals thereafter. |
How can you be certain of that if you watched Kobe shat the bed vs Detroit? |
You’re comparing Detroit’s defense to the Mavericks’?? |
It sounds like you are using an excuse for Kobe shatting the bed. I'd say both coaches had great schemes to stop LA and Miami, in historic upsets. |
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LaLaLakeShow
Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The only thing that is certain for me is that Kobe would not have shat the bed as badly as LBJ did against Dallas. Other than that I’m not sure if he would do better or worse than LBJ for the 3 finals thereafter. |
How can you be certain of that if you watched Kobe shat the bed vs Detroit? |
You’re comparing Detroit’s defense to the Mavericks’?? |
It sounds like you are using an excuse for Kobe shatting the bed. I'd say both coaches had great schemes to stop LA and Miami, in historic upsets. |
Well, sounds like you got it figured out |
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LaLaLakeShow
Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | if Kobe, Dwade, Chris Bosh playing in the east would have 4+ championships |
I don't know how people can make assertions like this.
What is Kobe's fit with these guys?
Do Wade/Bosh deteriorate in play the same way they did by the end of their Heat tenure? Does Bosh retire early and so on. Winning 2 out of 4 rings is still a feat. |
The difference would be Kobe and Miami's deep bench.
Kobe and Wade could easily taking turn as playmaker.
Wade and Bosh certainly were better than Gasol and Odom.
Bosh did not have to be a spot shooter with Wade and Kobe because Kobe could and had proved he could attack the crowded basket with Shaq down low. In fact, Bosh would easily score more easier points with Wade and Kobe.
When you take into account the shooters around the three players, it would be tge opponents' choice to let them attack the basket or get killed by three.
Along with Battier, Kobe, Wade and Bosh could certainly be deadly defensive squad as well. And yes, they got one who would take the last shots if needed. |
Wait....Miami had a deep bench?
I see all this emphasis on scoring and not addressing the defense and rebounding LeBron brought to the table playing PF in Miami. He led them in rebounding the last 3 seasons and each year they won. Swapping out a big and adding another guard isn't going to help you beat Dirk and Duncan when your remaining bigs are Bosh (grabbing like 6 boards a game some seasons) and guys like Anderson or old Haslem. |
Don’t forget LeBron’s passing as well. But yet according to some posters, Kobe is all of a sudden going to turn into LeBron by shooting less and passing and rebounding more He shat the bed against Detroit and Boston but we’re supposed to think he’d be at least as good or better then LeBron in a Heat uniform.
I won’t bother posting the Kobe/LeBron playoff and final statistics comparison because I don’t want to beat a dead horse. |
How’bout their Finals records? |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | I think Lakers got the wrong types of players during the achilles season. In hindsight, Kobe and Gasol should have been surround more mobile players... we needed a pg to lessen the playmaking of Kobe. Remember the CP3 thingy? You dare say Kobe cannot coexist with Wade? Lmao. What was the purpose of a PG like CP3? Crrtainly...so Kobe could use his energy more efficiently of the ball. Youknow those bumpings and body contacts as a playmaker would soon wear anybody down.
We finally got a pg. But old and injured prone "Here's to your MVP". (Look at my Kobe top 5 dunks...p ) |
Didn’t we try the PG thing with Ramon Sessions and Kobe wanted us to slow it down for him?
Look, he’s my favorite player, but he was very much a my way or the highway type of guy. Only Phil could really reign him in. |
That's true for both Kobe and MJ. It's really hard to harness that sort of player and to maximize the outcomes. It's a lot easier to let them just do their own thing, even if the results suffer a little. You can see that now with Harden and, in recent years, Westbrook. 15 years ago, we saw it with Iverson. Kobe and MJ were better than those guys, for sure, but you have to wonder what PJ and Tex would have done with them. |
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