As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
Come on. That dude got scary injury in 04.
He could not go all out once recovered. A healthy kobe would have been different especially without Triangle.
I maintain that in 05, the lakers played a loose system basically letting Kobe run the best offense game per game. Only in the playoffs against Suns that Phil devised the greatest plans. But we fell short by one freaking rebound.
Ok so what is your point? Mine is that Kobe and the Lakers franchise were at their best when he played under Phil relative to other coaches.
Your contention is that that is untrue?
Michael Jordan was also at his best when he played under Phil.
As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
Come on. That dude got scary injury in 04.
He could not go all out once recovered. A healthy kobe would have been different especially without Triangle.
I maintain that in 05, the lakers played a loose system basically letting Kobe run the best offense game per game. Only in the playoffs against Suns that Phil devised the greatest plans. But we fell short by one freaking rebound.
Ok so what is your point? Mine is that Kobe and the Lakers franchise were at their best when he played under Phil relative to other coaches.
Your contention is that that is untrue?
The part that is untrue is that kobe can only thrive under Triangle.
You put that Kobe in Marion's place that season... what do you think the Suns would be?
I am saying we don’t know if Kobe can thrive outside of the triangle. He/we never really did. He/we were only successful when he played within a system suited to him whether it was tri under Phil or breaking out of MDA’s system to go Kobe ball and get us into the playoffs in 2013.
So the only evidence we have is that he thrived in systems that suited him. Which is not really surprising since that basically applies to anyone.
As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
Come on. That dude got scary injury in 04.
He could not go all out once recovered. A healthy kobe would have been different especially without Triangle.
I maintain that in 05, the lakers played a loose system basically letting Kobe run the best offense game per game. Only in the playoffs against Suns that Phil devised the greatest plans. But we fell short by one freaking rebound.
Ok so what is your point? Mine is that Kobe and the Lakers franchise were at their best when he played under Phil relative to other coaches.
Your contention is that that is untrue?
Michael Jordan was also at his best when he played under Phil.
Your Point?
The point is that Phil knew how to maximize his players better than most others.
Shouldn't be hard for anyone who watched either of those series to conclude that Kobe and LeBron "shat the bed" in the two biggest upsets of this century (and the Heat one wouldn't rank #1).
1. [Deleted. No politics in the Lounge. - CL]
2. USA hockey over USSR hockey
3. Buster Douglas over Iron Mike
4. Red Sox 4-3 comeback over Yankees
5. Cavs 4-3 comeback over (73win, back2back MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY, COY, best SG in league) Warriors
6. Rahman over Lewis/Ruiz over AJ
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Kobe and LeBron shat the bed not top 10
I was referring to NBA basketball.
#5 wasn’t as shocking. LeBron and guys like Delly took them to 6 the year prior.
Yes it was. They were down 1-3 to a 73 win and multi-ring team. Cmon now be honest. Not only that, the Cavs were the first team in NBA history to come back from a 1-3 deficit and win the finals with Lebrob leading all players in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, the only it has ever happened in a playoff series ever. What happened in that series was hugely rare and record breaking on multiple fronts.
I said it wasn’t as shocking. If you had to lay $$ on the line which would you pick:
- LeBron, recognized as the best player in the game at that point, overcoming a 3-1 deficit
- Shaq and Kobe getting mopped by Detroit. Not just losing, but getting mopped.
- DIRK of all people beating the Heatles (he had the Harden choking rep at that point)
Additionally, LeBron put up crazy numbers vs them the prior year with little help and got to 6 games. Vs the same squad. That had only won one title at that point. And we saw them overcome a 3-1 deficit in the prior round.
But you basically implied that both MJ and Kobe cannot be successful under other systems.
No I didn’t. I said I don’t see any evidence that they were able to be just as good outside of it.
“Could be” isn’t evidence.
If it is some year in the 2000s, and you are the GM of the Lakers, and you have Kobe in his prime, and had the coaching choice of Byron Scott, Rudy Tomjanovich, Luke Walton, Mike Brown, Mike D’Antoni, and Phil Jackson ...
.. are you telling me you would be indifferent to which coach you would choose?
Shaq n Kobe getting mopped, true that.
While Kobe was also responsible for the loss, there were many other factors.
Certainly, people tend to ignore the signs of Pistons coming at ya...
Truth to be told, as bad as Kobe that season, somebody pls check out how the total supporting casts outside Shaq and Kobe fared against Pistons. (Hint: Pistons held Kobe to 38% shooting. Now, show me thw supporting casts' performances). Be waiting.... _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
But you basically implied that both MJ and Kobe cannot be successful under other systems.
No I didn’t. I said I don’t see any evidence that they were able to be just as good outside of it.
“Could be” isn’t evidence.
If it is some year in the 2000s, and you are the GM of the Lakers, and you have Kobe in his prime, and had the coaching choice of Byron Scott, Rudy Tomjanovich, Luke Walton, Mike Brown, Mike D’Antoni, and Phil Jackson ...
.. are you telling me you would be indifferent to which coach you would choose?
Well, too bad really. I cannot give you proofs because both Mike n Kobe spent most of the ships with Phil.
But if you need signs, then see MJ and Kobe playing without proper casts. They were outrageous. Imo, you need the right pieces first before you need the right coach. Case in point, Lakers and Spurs taking turn for the ships. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
Imo, you need the right pieces first before you need the right coach.
To win a title, you need everything, all at the same time. This includes a degree of luck, especially with injuries.
Agree. Phil came at the right time though.
He made me watch basketball again first and foremost.
My kinda favorite coach. And then Shaq and Kobe happened.
A match made in heaven while it lasted.
With the current roster, I wonder how Phil and Triangle would have fared.
I am sure both Bron and Davis will thrive. We had seen Pau and Kobe's tandem before. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Imo, you need the right pieces first before you need the right coach.
To win a title, you need everything, all at the same time. This includes a degree of luck, especially with injuries.
Agree. Phil came at the right time though.
He made me watch basketball again first and foremost.
My kinda favorite coach. And then Shaq and Kobe happened.
A match made in heaven while it lasted.
With the current roster, I wonder how Phil and Triangle would have fared.
I am sure both Bron and Davis will thrive. We had seen Pau and Kobe's tandem before.
As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
*81 pts
The thing is Kobe didn't get the credit for carrying those super teammates to 7th seed in playoffs and managed to scare the hell out of the burning Suns. Everyone could smell the whole Suns team's fear till that one rebound and three pointer giving them a lifeline and the confidence back. It was the most painful and Horry-ble shot for that super lakers team. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
As far as Phil specifically, we had basically the same team in 04-05 as we did in 05-06 but we were much better in 2006. 45 wins vs 34, almost beat the Suns, ok we had Kwame but cmon.
Those two teams were pretty different. Both Kobe and Lamar played 80 games each in 05-06, and only 64 and 66 the year before. So Phil had the advantage of 30 extra games from the top two guys.
The rest of the roster was different.
The top minutes players after Kobe and Lebron in 04-05 were Caron Butler, Chucky Atkins, Mihm, and Jumaine Jones
In 05-06 it was Smush Parker, Mihm, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown.
Talking about talent wise they weren’t that far off. If anything, the teammates were better in 04-05 but I was willing to call it a wash.
In the 66 games Kobe played in 04-05, the Lakers record was an abysmal 28-38.
The following season, under Phil, and with hot poo Kwame/Smush/Mihm, we had 45 wins and a playoff berth, and Kobe had his historic 82 pt game, again without a significant if any improvement in roster construction around him.
*81 pts
The thing is Kobe didn't get the credit for carrying those super teammates to 7th seed in playoffs and managed to scare the hell out of the burning Suns. Everyone could smell the whole Suns team's fear till that one rebound and three pointer giving them a lifeline and the confidence back. It was the most painful and Horry-ble shot for that super lakers team.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29279 Location: La La Land
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:53 am Post subject:
I actually liked Chris Mihm.
He was a better Laker than Hibbert and Mozgov IMO. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
I actually liked Chris Mihm.
He was a better Laker than Hibbert and Mozgov IMO.
Don't set the standards too high. Seriously, though, Mihm was about an average backup quality center. If not for the injury, he probably would have played another ten years in the league.
I actually liked Chris Mihm.
He was a better Laker than Hibbert and Mozgov IMO.
Don't set the standards too high. Seriously, though, Mihm was about an average backup quality center. If not for the injury, he probably would have played another ten years in the league.
Who’s the best back up big right now? Dwight, Plumlee or Hayes?
I actually liked Chris Mihm.
He was a better Laker than Hibbert and Mozgov IMO.
Don't set the standards too high. Seriously, though, Mihm was about an average backup quality center. If not for the injury, he probably would have played another ten years in the league.
Who’s the best back up big right now? Dwight, Plumlee or Hayes?
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