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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Ming just won the internet.
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x75274
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
george w kush wrote:
BTW one more interesting statistic:

Kobe ve Lebron all time

Lebron: 16-6
Kobe: 6-16


Check Jordans record vs Hakeem. Does it mean Hakeem was greater?


I generally am of the belief that over any decent length of time (more than half a season) the law of averages proves that Lebron is the better player even though for 1 game or series only, I am inclined to go with Kobe Bean. And I do believe these stats have some meaning. That being said, the year they were supposed to meet in 2008-2009, I am 99% sure the Lakers would have curb stomped Cleveland had they met in the finals. Cleveland would have been very lucky to win 2 games (more likely they win only 1 and just as likely to get swept as winning 2 games). 2010, they had the pieces to challenge us and possibly beat us but with Lebron's mental state and how he collapsed in game 5 vs Boston, I am inclined to give Kobe the edge again had they met. 2011 they really had the pieces and gameplan to beat us but I almost call this a tossup considering how vulnerable Miami was but how badly we looked for the most part against a David West-less New Orleans and how horrific we looked against Dallas. Had we made it that far though, our focus might actually have came back on and we might have beaten Lebron (even though how Dallas guarded Lebron is generally different than how we guarded Bron back then - to little success I might add having Artest guarding Lebron straight up). 2011 would have been a toos-up with a slight favorite to Miami even assuming Lebron (bleep) the bed as badly against the Lakers as he did in reality against the Mavs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
May 03 1990: Los Angeles 109, Houston 88 (Playlist)
  1. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 1/12
  2. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 2/12
  3. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 3/12
  4. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 4/12
  5. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 5/12
  6. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 6/12
  7. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 7/12
  8. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 8/12
  9. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 9/12
  10. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 10/12
  11. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 11/12
  12. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 4 part 12/12
May 01 1990: Houston 114, Los Angeles 108 (Playlist)
  1. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 1/12
  2. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 2/12
  3. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 3/12
  4. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 4/12
  5. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 5/12
  6. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 6/12
  7. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 7/12
  8. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 8/12
  9. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 9/12
  10. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 10/12
  11. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 11/12
  12. 1990 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 12/12
Apr. 29 1990: Los Angeles 104, Houston 100 (Playlist)
  1. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 1/13
  2. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 2/13
  3. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 3/13
  4. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 4/13
  5. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 5/13
  6. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 6/13
  7. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 7/13
  8. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 8/13
  9. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 9/13
  10. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 10/13
  11. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 11/13
  12. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 12/13
  13. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 2 part 13/13
Apr. 27 1990: Los Angeles 101, Houston 89 (Playlist)
  1. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 1/11
  2. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 2/11
  3. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 3/11
  4. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 4/11
  5. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 5/11
  6. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 6/11
  7. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 7/11
  8. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 8/11
  9. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 9/11
  10. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 10/11
  11. 1990 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 11/11


Apr. 30 1991: Los Angeles 94, Houston 90 (Playlist)
  1. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 1/13
  2. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 2/13
  3. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 3/13
  4. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 4/13
  5. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 5/13
  6. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 6/13
  7. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 7/13
  8. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 8/13
  9. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 9/13
  10. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 10/13
  11. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 11/13
  12. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 12/13
  13. 1991 NBA WCQF: Lakers at Rockets, Gm 3 part 13/13
Apr. 27 1991: Los Angeles 109, Houston 98

Apr. 25 1991: Los Angeles 94, Houston 92 (Playlist)
  1. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 1/13
  2. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 2/13
  3. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 3/13
  4. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 4/13
  5. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 5/13
  6. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 6/13
  7. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 7/13
  8. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 8/13
  9. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 9/13
  10. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 10/13
  11. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 11/13
  12. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 12/13
  13. 1991 NBA WCQF: Rockets at Lakers, Gm 1 part 13/13


Great vids, bro. Thanks.
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24Legend007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
george w kush wrote:
BTW one more interesting statistic:

Kobe ve Lebron all time

Lebron: 16-6
Kobe: 6-16


Check Jordans record vs Hakeem. Does it mean Hakeem was greater?


I generally am of the belief that over any decent length of time (more than half a season) the law of averages proves that Lebron is the better player even though for 1 game or series only, I am inclined to go with Kobe Bean. And I do believe these stats have some meaning. That being said, the year they were supposed to meet in 2008-2009, I am 99% sure the Lakers would have curb stomped Cleveland had they met in the finals. Cleveland would have been very lucky to win 2 games (more likely they win only 1 and just as likely to get swept as winning 2 games). 2010, they had the pieces to challenge us and possibly beat us but with Lebron's mental state and how he collapsed in game 5 vs Boston, I am inclined to give Kobe the edge again had they met. 2011 they really had the pieces and gameplan to beat us but I almost call this a tossup considering how vulnerable Miami was but how badly we looked for the most part against a David West-less New Orleans and how horrific we looked against Dallas. Had we made it that far though, our focus might actually have came back on and we might have beaten Lebron (even though how Dallas guarded Lebron is generally different than how we guarded Bron back then - to little success I might add having Artest guarding Lebron straight up). 2011 would have been a toos-up with a slight favorite to Miami even assuming Lebron (bleep) the bed as badly against the Lakers as he did in reality against the Mavs


We lost in 2011 because we didnt make any moves. Kobe was hobbled and beat down from 3 straight trips the finals and he was our defacto pg, sg basically. We should of moved Gasol for some perimeter 3 and D. Hard to do though after his performance in the 2010 finals. But the floor shrank for him with Bynum's emergence. I found myself mad at Gasol frequently but looking back it was not his fault, he was better with Odom because Odom could stretch the floor. Give Gasol the space he needed to work. He was relegated to alot of mid range junk, that he was not that great at making imo.

That team was just not fully thought out imo. They needed change, they went with what was getting the job done, but you have to adapt. Then when the CP3 deal got nixed it was over we went from CP3, Kobe, Dwight to Nash (never played), Kobe, Gasol, Dwight....
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x75274
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
x75274 wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
george w kush wrote:
BTW one more interesting statistic:

Kobe ve Lebron all time

Lebron: 16-6
Kobe: 6-16


Check Jordans record vs Hakeem. Does it mean Hakeem was greater?


I generally am of the belief that over any decent length of time (more than half a season) the law of averages proves that Lebron is the better player even though for 1 game or series only, I am inclined to go with Kobe Bean. And I do believe these stats have some meaning. That being said, the year they were supposed to meet in 2008-2009, I am 99% sure the Lakers would have curb stomped Cleveland had they met in the finals. Cleveland would have been very lucky to win 2 games (more likely they win only 1 and just as likely to get swept as winning 2 games). 2010, they had the pieces to challenge us and possibly beat us but with Lebron's mental state and how he collapsed in game 5 vs Boston, I am inclined to give Kobe the edge again had they met. 2011 they really had the pieces and gameplan to beat us but I almost call this a tossup considering how vulnerable Miami was but how badly we looked for the most part against a David West-less New Orleans and how horrific we looked against Dallas. Had we made it that far though, our focus might actually have came back on and we might have beaten Lebron (even though how Dallas guarded Lebron is generally different than how we guarded Bron back then - to little success I might add having Artest guarding Lebron straight up). 2011 would have been a toos-up with a slight favorite to Miami even assuming Lebron (bleep) the bed as badly against the Lakers as he did in reality against the Mavs


We lost in 2011 because we didnt make any moves. Kobe was hobbled and beat down from 3 straight trips the finals and he was our defacto pg, sg basically. We should of moved Gasol for some perimeter 3 and D. Hard to do though after his performance in the 2010 finals. But the floor shrank for him with Bynum's emergence. I found myself mad at Gasol frequently but looking back it was not his fault, he was better with Odom because Odom could stretch the floor. Give Gasol the space he needed to work. He was relegated to alot of mid range junk, that he was not that great at making imo.

That team was just not fully thought out imo. They needed change, they went with what was getting the job done, but you have to adapt. Then when the CP3 deal got nixed it was over we went from CP3, Kobe, Dwight to Nash (never played), Kobe, Gasol, Dwight....


What is sadly ironic is that at the beginning of 2010-2011, we saw Pau at his absolute best to the point there was legitimate MVP talk. A fully focused Pau in no way gets outplayed by Bosh and stands very close head to head against Dirk. Yes, Dirk is slightly better but a normal Pau would have given as much as he took to Dirk
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Mamba81
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:40 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Ming just won the internet.


lol forreal tho!! had to subscribe to that youtube channel
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L4L
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject:

One of the interesting ways to think about this is in terms of surrounding a player with replacement level talent (read: league average players) and thinking about how big of a difference the core player would make with that group. I think I actually agree that LeBron might need less pieces around him to take a bad or mediocre group to 50 wins. His style of play allows him to dominate the entirety of an offense and control the shot that is taken every single time down the court. The problem is that this doesn’t tend to be a winning style of basketball in the post-season. The whole one-man-band act usually falls short. Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron all had to learn that lesson.

However, I don’t think it necessarily follows that the guy who can make the biggest difference on a bad to average team is also the guy who make the biggest difference in terms of taking a good team to great or a great team to an all-time level team.

When the Warriors added KD, part of the reason it worked so well, in my opinion, is that he’s an elite shooter. He draws incredible gravity even off the ball. He can be great without asking other players to fundamentally change their game. That’s not the case for early-career James. He must dominate the ball to he hyper effective and that often marginalizes his help. It’s almost like a perfect 3&D guy is more useful to LeBron-ball than a guy like Kevin Love because you aren’t going to run anything through him when you have LeBron anyway.

Kobe has shown time and time again that his game doesn’t marginalize a second star... yet I would still completely agree LeBron probably does more to help a bad or average team take the next leap.

That said, I think a two-way center makes more difference than either of them depending on the era if we’re talking about elevating average talent because a two-way center, almost single-handedly, can anchor an elite defense while providing a number one offensive option.

It is really only due to “data all”, in my opinion, that elite two way centers have been dislodged as the most important players in the game due to the simple fact that PPP is so much higher with an offense built around creating open threes and drives to the hoop.

To get back to my point though: I don’t think the guy who is best at taking a team from 30 or 40 wins to 50-60 is necessarily the guy who adds the most to a team’s chances to win a championship.

If you give prime Westbrook a bunch of elite 3&D guys, I think he could provide an Iverson-like result, but you aren’t likely to ever win a championship like that. You generally need multiple stars and having a star whose game is more conducive to playing with other stars is important.

James is on record, I posted the quotes, as saying his jumper was so poor he didn’t even have confidence to take them early in his career in important playoff games. You want a guy that is such a poor shooter that he’s afraid to take them (not “comfortable” in his own words) playing next to Shaq who is clogging the paint? I don’t know if that works the same.

And you could argue James would’ve focused more on shooting earlier in his career if he had a second guy, but that’s not how it played out. This team, with AD, gives LeBron a great chance to prove he can win without marginalizing an elite big man. For me, winning with AD would really boost his legacy as a complete player even if I fully believe he couldn’t have done it earlier in his career.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject:

L4L wrote:
For me, winning with AD would really boost his legacy as a complete player even if I fully believe he couldn’t have done it earlier in his career.


Yeah, the narrative that he treats All-Star bigs like role players would be put to bed forever if he and AD lead us to the chip.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject:

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
actually in the 1990 Playoffs 3 of Hakeems Teammates averaged equal to or more points than he did. The 3 being Thorpe, Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd. Hakeem had ample Help, just couldn't get it done.


Oh, please. The 1990 Rockets were a 41-41 team going up against a 63-win Lakers team.

The Rockets were a great defensive team, mostly because of Hakeem, and a poor offensive team.

You really think the reason the Rockets (who just barely squeezed into playoffs lost to the Lakers (who had the league's best record) is because "Hakeem just couldn't get it done"? Really? C'mon.

All these random darts you're throwing aren't even hitting the board.


I guess you missed the part where Dreamshake said Kobe was losing in the first round with Odom as ‘help’ with no context to that they were playing the Dantoni Suns who also were a 60 win team.

I’m just taking his arguments and spitting it back at him. It’s funny that opponent strength didn’t matter when Kobe was being bashed, but now it’s the primary excuse when I start criticizing his boy.


The 06 Suns did not win 60 games and y’all had a 3-1 lead. Then someone decided to quit in G7. Y’all weren’t favored to start but that series was clearly winnable.

And since your purpose is to rebut my comment, I asked how much star help do you need to get past round 1. Dream actually won a title without another star player, so I’m not sure why you are rebutting with him anyway, aside from the typical “let me throw this Rocket out there to rebut the Rockets fan”.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:16 pm    Post subject:

L4L wrote:
For me, winning with AD would really boost his legacy as a complete player even if I fully believe he couldn’t have done it earlier in his career.

Same here. Winning with AD would be a major boost for me.
But I would give him even more credit doing it now. I don't think he is in his overall prime now. Sure he's a better shooter and smarter than in his past. But there was a time where his overall peak was higher in my opinion with his mix of athleticism, shooting, and BBIQ.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject:

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
The 07 suns did win 60 games though.


They did, and the previous years team did not.

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
You asked to compare rosters to see who’s better than Odom. You agreed about Sampson.


I agree that out of all the players and instances you listed, Sampson was the one player better than Odom. Dream really blew it by not getting past round 1 with Sampson next to him in his rookie season. The next year he went to the Finals.

As far as the rest of your post, you showed me examples of guys that others (ie non Rockets fans) are laughing at you for trying to prop them up. And all of your comments are in rebuttal to me asking how much star help do you need to get past round 1 when Dream is one of the few to win a title without star help. But hey, keep hurling the almighty internet insults in response.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:01 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
The 07 suns did win 60 games though.


They did, and the previous years team did not.

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
You asked to compare rosters to see who’s better than Odom. You agreed about Sampson.


I agree that out of all the players and instances you listed, Sampson was the one player better than Odom. Dream really blew it by not getting past round 1 with Sampson next to him in his rookie season. The next year he went to the Finals.

As far as the rest of your post, you showed me examples of guys that others (ie non Rockets fans) are laughing at you for trying to prop them up. And all of your comments are in rebuttal to me asking how much star help do you need to get past round 1 when Dream is one of the few to win a title without star help. But hey, keep hurling the almighty internet insults in response.


Hakeem won his one title without star help because Jordan was retired playing whiffle ball.

A reality that everyone outside of Houston readily accepts.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am    Post subject:

Quick LAbron - Bryant comparison:

1) LAbron has won 17 games in the first 20 games of this season. It took bryant an entire season to win 17 games in his last season, the worst season in Lakers history (Bryant took the most shots, was worst shooter on the team).

2) LAbron passed Jordan so gracefully and effortlessly, and will pass Bryant in the same way. Bryant struggled to pass Jordan, shooting an abysmal FG%, driving the team into the ground.

When we talk about losses in the Finals, don't forget that Bryant did not win the Finals when he went 17-65 and 27-65, the worst seasons in Lakers history. So technically, Bryant also lost during those years and many others when he failed to make the Finals.

Also, we noticed that there are very very few Bryant jerseys at the Lakers games this season. Most fans are 100% behind LAbron.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:20 am    Post subject:

Metro2Staples wrote:
Quick LAbron - Bryant comparison:

1) LAbron has won 17 games in the first 20 games of this season. It took bryant an entire season to win 17 games in his last season, the worst season in Lakers history (Bryant took the most shots, was worst shooter on the team).

2) LAbron passed Jordan so gracefully and effortlessly, and will pass Bryant in the same way. Bryant struggled to pass Jordan, shooting an abysmal FG%, driving the team into the ground.

When we talk about losses in the Finals, don't forget that Bryant did not win the Finals when he went 17-65 and 27-65, the worst seasons in Lakers history. So technically, Bryant also lost during those years and many others when he failed to make the Finals.

Also, we noticed that there are very very few Bryant jerseys at the Lakers games this season. Most fans are 100% behind LAbron.


1) Comparing 17th season LeBron with 20th season Kobe. No agenda. there...

2) By that logic then LeBron has failed to win the NBA Finals 13 times (and counting) in his career.

That's....usually how it goes. When Kobe was the man there were more Kobe jerseys than Magic or Kareem. When Magic was the man there were more Magic jerseys than West or Wilt. Not sure what you're getting at here, buddy, other than you're desperately grasping at straws to defend a guy who you say is Top 1-3 (and rising) vs a guy who is Top 14 (and failing), according to you. You must not feel very secure about your stance on this argument...

Not surprising you pop into this thread after a tough loss to lick your wounds and try to give yourself a little confidence boost.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am    Post subject:

Correct. And Bryant has failed to win the Finals on 15 occasions, while failing to even make it to the Finals on many more occasions than Bron.

I think it's better to make it to the Finals than finish in last place, but that's just me.

I'm looking forward to seeing LAbron in a Lakers uniform for many years to come, becoming the all time leading scorer in as little as 2.5 years from now.


Batguano wrote:

2) By that logic then LeBron has failed to win the NBA Finals 13 times (and counting) in his career.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
The 07 suns did win 60 games though.


They did, and the previous years team did not.

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
You asked to compare rosters to see who’s better than Odom. You agreed about Sampson.


I agree that out of all the players and instances you listed, Sampson was the one player better than Odom. Dream really blew it by not getting past round 1 with Sampson next to him in his rookie season. The next year he went to the Finals.

As far as the rest of your post, you showed me examples of guys that others (ie non Rockets fans) are laughing at you for trying to prop them up. And all of your comments are in rebuttal to me asking how much star help do you need to get past round 1 when Dream is one of the few to win a title without star help. But hey, keep hurling the almighty internet insults in response.


Hakeem won his one title without star help because Jordan was retired playing whiffle ball.

A reality that everyone outside of Houston readily accepts.


This.

Also Hakeem had Thorpe (Previous Allstar), Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Robery Horry, Sam Cassell (Future Allstar), Mario Ellie. Not exactly bums and grocery baggers.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

And what does this have to do with Kobe & LeBron? Seems like you are a little bit off topic, possibly.



crazylakerfan001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
The 07 suns did win 60 games though.


They did, and the previous years team did not.

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
You asked to compare rosters to see who’s better than Odom. You agreed about Sampson.


I agree that out of all the players and instances you listed, Sampson was the one player better than Odom. Dream really blew it by not getting past round 1 with Sampson next to him in his rookie season. The next year he went to the Finals.

As far as the rest of your post, you showed me examples of guys that others (ie non Rockets fans) are laughing at you for trying to prop them up. And all of your comments are in rebuttal to me asking how much star help do you need to get past round 1 when Dream is one of the few to win a title without star help. But hey, keep hurling the almighty internet insults in response.


Hakeem won his one title without star help because Jordan was retired playing whiffle ball.

A reality that everyone outside of Houston readily accepts.


This.

Also Hakeem had Thorpe (Previous Allstar), Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Robery Horry, Sam Cassell (Future Allstar), Mario Ellie. Not exactly bums and grocery baggers.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
crazylakerfan001 wrote:
The 07 suns did win 60 games though.


They did, and the previous years team did not.

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
You asked to compare rosters to see who’s better than Odom. You agreed about Sampson.


I agree that out of all the players and instances you listed, Sampson was the one player better than Odom. Dream really blew it by not getting past round 1 with Sampson next to him in his rookie season. The next year he went to the Finals.

As far as the rest of your post, you showed me examples of guys that others (ie non Rockets fans) are laughing at you for trying to prop them up. And all of your comments are in rebuttal to me asking how much star help do you need to get past round 1 when Dream is one of the few to win a title without star help. But hey, keep hurling the almighty internet insults in response.


Hakeem won his one title without star help because Jordan was retired playing whiffle ball.

A reality that everyone outside of Houston readily accepts.


This.

Also Hakeem had Thorpe (Previous Allstar), Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Robery Horry, Sam Cassell (Future Allstar), Mario Ellie. Not exactly bums and grocery baggers.



I don't quite get this conversation.

No superstar wins a ring with a bunch of CBA rejects. That said, no one on the GOAT short list won a couple of rings with as weak a supporting cast as Hakeem.

If MJ hadn't retire, you have to guess the Bulls would have made the finals. But you never know. And you have to guess they would have beaten the Rockets. But you never know.

Hakeem's team could only face the team on the court. They didn't exactly blow through the competition, but they were the last ones standing twice.

Don't really understand these exercises of trying to diminish one player's accomplishments to make another player seem better.
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Batguano
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Metro2Staples wrote:
Correct. And Bryant has failed to win the Finals on 15 occasions, while failing to even make it to the Finals on many more occasions than Bron.

I think it's better to make it to the Finals than finish in last place, but that's just me.

I'm looking forward to seeing LAbron in a Lakers uniform for many years to come, becoming the all time leading scorer in as little as 2.5 years from now.


Batguano wrote:

2) By that logic then LeBron has failed to win the NBA Finals 13 times (and counting) in his career.


Yes, cause that has nothing to do with the fact that Kobe played in the Western Conference for his entire career while LeBron played in the Eastern Conference for the majority of his career...

I think it's better to win more finals than to lose them, but that's just me...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject:

You think #LAbron is going to retire after next year? Haha.
You think #AD is walking after this year? Haha.

keep hating bro.

#Lakers

crazylakerfan001 wrote:
Metro2Staples wrote:
I saw your post in LBJ thread, suggesting that AD will walk after this year (not going to happen) and LBJ will go elsewhere after next season (also not going to happen).

Sounds like you dislike LeBron James, a Lakers superstar.


crazylakerfan001 wrote:
Oh Stfu, your whole premise is to troll on this forum. I suggest you go to LebronGround.net. You aren't a real Laker fan.


Reading Comprehension isn't your strong suit.

I simply said if we don't win this year and if AD walks and then Lebron retires the year after we would be without any stars and without picks.

Lebron is merely a mercenary. If he helps us win a championship then he will be loved, if he fails then we would be in big trouble for the future and the Laker Fans who are worshiping him now will turn on him quickly.
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FreakofNature
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject:

How lucky we have been, to have them both, along with all the other legends...
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
Metro2Staples wrote:
Correct. And Bryant has failed to win the Finals on 15 occasions, while failing to even make it to the Finals on many more occasions than Bron.

I think it's better to make it to the Finals than finish in last place, but that's just me.

I'm looking forward to seeing LAbron in a Lakers uniform for many years to come, becoming the all time leading scorer in as little as 2.5 years from now.


Batguano wrote:

2) By that logic then LeBron has failed to win the NBA Finals 13 times (and counting) in his career.


Yes, cause that has nothing to do with the fact that Kobe played in the Western Conference for his entire career while LeBron played in the Eastern Conference for the majority of his career...

I think it's better to win more finals than to lose them, but that's just me...

seriously. it's not just about finals. i personally dont think its fair to just go by rings, even for lbj. because then it gets crazy with the counter examples, and its just plain not true to what is happening in reality.

lebron's ring count is held against him specifically because its the east. it would be less of a knock against him if he had the same record playing in the west. so it matters. if he were 3-5 in the west, that would be way better than 3-5 in the east.

kobe is to be admired for that reason. he did 5-7 in the west, with arguable more difficult competition than anyone else considered goat the past 30 years-ish. even shaq got #4 going east. so that matters. and there is that one famous data that shows kobe's teams in the playoffs beat more difficult teams than just about anyone in modern history. these are real things to consider, not percentages and efficiencies that translate to 1-2 FG attempts per game.

jordan's 6/6 is also not the end all be all of arguments. all these things have to be considered if we are trying to be real and not simply trying to win an argument. when looking at playoff performances, you also have to consider all the years you lose before the finals. jordan maybe could be 6/7 and that would be better than 6/6 because it would mean he won one of those rounds he lost. the numerical display wouldn't be as clean, but 6/6 is NOT better than 6/7 in any sense.

and ultimately, you just have to watch the players a lot. one problem i see here is that im pretty sure most of us have watched MANY more hours of kobe than lbj. in fact, lbj is one of the first players in history to become goat status where people don't really watch him. its all stats and highlights. this is also why i was warning a lot of laker fans about lbj...im like, look, you guys havent really watched this guy and you are expecting a magic/kobe type person. and they see me just hating. and what people dont see thru the highlights and stats are all the bad passes, klumsy dribbling, etc. it looks good when it works, but he doesn't display the type of elite skill you would expect from a guy who is talked about as these goats. this is the big issue with lebron and the reason for the crazy debates. i really think people dont see this. even when they watch...they dont see it for some reason.
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Mamba81
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject:

superboy lowkey right!! kobe was more fundamentally sound than lebron!! the eye test alone always told me kobe was more skilled. especially with the foot work, post game and wide array of shots he could make!!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject:

All posts containing personal insults will be deleted in their entirety. Have a good evening.

Last edited by ChefLinda on Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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LaLaLakeShow
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:33 pm    Post subject:

Mamba81 wrote:
superboy lowkey right!! kobe was more fundamentally sound than lebron!! the eye test alone always told me kobe was more skilled. especially with the foot work, post game and wide array of shots he could make!!


It’s undeniable
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