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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30679
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 Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | There is a reason NOLA didn't want him. |
but they did
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840786-lakers-trade-rumors-pelicans-want-kyle-kuzma-included-in-anthony-davis-package
Tania Ganguli and Brad Turner of the Los Angeles Times reported the Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma as part of any Davis package, while the Lakers are hesitant to move him.
Report: Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma most among all Lakers prospects"The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram or Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.
Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most."
They got lucky that the Lakers picked Kuzma to keep cause he was cheaper than Ingram... cause they got Ingram right before he took off, and the Lakers kept Kuzma after he'd already landed. |
personally I thought Brad Turner was shoveling large quantities of bad information out there about the AD trade. |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Carushow wrote: | | Kuzma was sensational as a rookie. Now he tries too hard to be sth he really isn't, e.g. being the 3rd scoring option. He forces things instead of letting the game come to him and play within the flow of the offense. I'd take Rookie-Kuzma over the current version any day tbh. |
He didnt force much today. Took 8 shots. |
Ya I don’t think people are upset about his offense, it was his putrid D that has people angry. You’re gonna have bad shooting nights but my goodness his defense has been abysmal |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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KCP came back from all the criticism, maybe Kuz will turn it around soon. He had some injuries recently, so let’s cut him some slack.
Turn your ankle like that less than 40 hours ago is tough for anyone. |
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TMG
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 6945
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| What happened? When has Kuz ever been good? Dude has like 3 huge games and people forget he had 79 so-so ones. Trade him if they can maybe we can trick a team into thinking this dude is an all-star in the making. Kuz would be a great tank commander on a team. No defense but puts up points. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Carushow wrote: | | Kuzma was sensational as a rookie. Now he tries too hard to be sth he really isn't, e.g. being the 3rd scoring option. He forces things instead of letting the game come to him and play within the flow of the offense. I'd take Rookie-Kuzma over the current version any day tbh. |
He didnt force much today. Took 8 shots. |
Ya I don’t think people are upset about his offense, it was his putrid D that has people angry. You’re gonna have bad shooting nights but my goodness his defense has been abysmal |
Don’t think his defense has been abysmal. I think a lot of that is coming off reputation. All things considered, he’s been adequate.
Today, yes, bad. But again, as I said earlier, I have a hard time pinning down the games in which he was 100% healthy.
So it’s hard to attribute fairly, his poor play to him being a poor player or just not healthy. |
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Pau Gasol's Beard
Star Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Posts: 1410
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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We basically swapped Lou Williams for Kuzma. Let that sink in for a minute  |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | bandiger wrote: |
Could’ve kept Ball? That hurts. |
his defense would have been nice when combined with Davis's and having an actual point guard out there that could do so. |
He can’t play defense if he cannot stay on the court though. Love Lonzo but my god the kid is made of glass. |
Hell no, I’d keep Kuz over Lonzo for sure. |
Well he got on the court tonight, obviously not 100% and still put up 14/4/7 while shooting 4/8 from three.
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Carushow wrote: | | Kuzma was sensational as a rookie. Now he tries too hard to be sth he really isn't, e.g. being the 3rd scoring option. He forces things instead of letting the game come to him and play within the flow of the offense. I'd take Rookie-Kuzma over the current version any day tbh. |
He didnt force much today. Took 8 shots. |
Ya I don’t think people are upset about his offense, it was his putrid D that has people angry. You’re gonna have bad shooting nights but my goodness his defense has been abysmal |
Don’t think his defense has been abysmal. I think a lot of that is coming off reputation. All things considered, he’s been adequate.
Today, yes, bad. But again, as I said earlier, I have a hard time pinning down the games in which he was 100% healthy.
So it’s hard to attribute fairly, his poor play to him being a poor player or just not healthy. |
He’s trying more but not really improved. Teams pick on him time and time again and it always results in a positive play for them. He is a horrible rebounder for his size, and his def iq has been really bad. Again he’s trying more than he did last year but fisher also tried hard on defense and was still a terrible defender |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Carushow wrote: | | Kuzma was sensational as a rookie. Now he tries too hard to be sth he really isn't, e.g. being the 3rd scoring option. He forces things instead of letting the game come to him and play within the flow of the offense. I'd take Rookie-Kuzma over the current version any day tbh. |
He didnt force much today. Took 8 shots. |
Ya I don’t think people are upset about his offense, it was his putrid D that has people angry. You’re gonna have bad shooting nights but my goodness his defense has been abysmal |
Don’t think his defense has been abysmal. I think a lot of that is coming off reputation. All things considered, he’s been adequate.
Today, yes, bad. But again, as I said earlier, I have a hard time pinning down the games in which he was 100% healthy.
So it’s hard to attribute fairly, his poor play to him being a poor player or just not healthy. |
He’s trying more but not really improved. Teams pick on him time and time again and it always results in a positive play for them. He is a horrible rebounder for his size, and his def iq has been really bad. Again he’s trying more than he did last year but fisher also tried hard on defense and was still a terrible defender |
Well, then we need to play better team defense.
If we’re leaving guys out on an island, that’s a recipe for disaster and perhaps, why our team defense has been off lately. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Can’t believe we picked Kuzma over Ingram. |
We didn’t.
We picked AD over Ingram. |
Why do people still make that fraudulent claim about choosing Kuzma over Ingram? Ingram, Lonzo, and #4 were always going to be involved.
Perhaps Hart could have been kept over Kuzma but BI was NEVER off the table. Griffin was gushing over BI well before he ever took the job. |
I wish that we had kept Hart. Then we might have been able to fill a hole with Rondo’s salary. |
You're a mixed bag in my eyes VLF. Some of your posts drive me crazy but you also said immediately after the trade that we should have kept Hart over Kuz.
You also accurately predicted Kawhi was stalling meetings/his decision because he was buying time for the Clippers to go out and get someone. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I do not remember who, but there was someone who said that David Griffin when he was an NBA analyst he was covering a Laker game last season and was all over Ingram. Meaning once he got the Pelicans job, the odds went up LA would make this trade, because DG valued Ingram even more.
Even so, is this what you all will do to Kuzma all year? Put him in the unfair situation of comparing him as a bench guy who plays a distant 3rd option to Ingram who has a free reign and is New Orleans designated go to guy right now? You can not honestly believe their roles are even close to the same, right?
I am no Kuzma fan, look at the Kuzma thread, I even said when he got hurt, he may not break our rotation if he can't hit his 3s and play D. But he has made a real effort to make his 3s and play D. He may not be elite at either, but it is not his fault that we need a elite 3nD big forward, vs what he does. I hope with time he will develop into what we need him to become, considering the coaching staff is high on him.
Ask me though, and I'd trade him for a 3nD big forward any day of the week. We are in it to win now, and Kuzma is not a franchise level talent worth waiting for. If you can cash in and get a better veteran player now, who gives you more chances at a ring in the 2 year LBJ-AD window, do it. We only have a 2 year window with these guys unless we add a 3rd superstar at some point, so we need to cash in as much as we can. I like Kuzma though, and do not mind if he is our development guy. Literally everyone else is what you see, is what you get. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma is the same guy he's been since he got here. Difference is, he used to get 15-20 shots a game, so even when he only hit 30% of them, he still had double digit scoring and to the undiscerning eye, he looked like he was producing. Now he's only getting 8 to 10 shots a game and 30% on that volume isn't as beneficial to the counting stats.
Problem is, as ever, that when the shot isn't flaling, he isn't impacting the game in any way. People crapped on Lonzo when he wasn't hitting his 3s, but he was at least getting grabbing boards, playing hounding defense, getting steals/deflections and moving the ball. Kuzma doesn't defend, doesn't creat for others, doesn't grab boards, nothing. He's a one-dimensional player...sometimes. All too often he is a non-dimensional player. He's had more hairstyles than double digit scoring games. Becomes increasinlgy laughable our FO "fought" to keep Kuzma out of the AD trade. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Can’t believe we picked Kuzma over Ingram. |
We didn’t.
We picked AD over Ingram. |
Why do people still make that fraudulent claim about choosing Kuzma over Ingram? Ingram, Lonzo, and #4 were always going to be involved.
Perhaps Hart could have been kept over Kuzma but BI was NEVER off the table. Griffin was gushing over BI well before he ever took the job. |
I wish that we had kept Hart. Then we might have been able to fill a hole with Rondo’s salary. |
You're a mixed bag in my eyes VLF. Some of your posts drive me crazy but you also said immediately after the trade that we should have kept Hart over Kuz.
You also accurately predicted Kawhi was stalling meetings/his decision because he was buying time for the Clippers to go out and get someone. |
I also wanted to keep Hart over Kuzma, especially since i think that would've saved us at least one future 1st, which would give us a ton of needed trade flexibility right now. And yes, that would have meant Rondo's roster/salary would've went elsewhere. Just a series of dominos that have hurt the overall quality of the team. |
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NBAFAN24
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 1105
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I told you about him getting big-headed. He thinks he’s on LeBron and AD level in terms of celebrity status, but he hasn’t done (bleep) yet. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | KCP came back from all the criticism, maybe Kuz will turn it around soon. He had some injuries recently, so let’s cut him some slack.
Turn your ankle like that less than 40 hours ago is tough for anyone. |
KCP at least plays defense. He can (and will) have off-scoring nights, but you can at least count on him finding other ways to impact the game. Kuzma has zero other ways of impacting the game if his shot isn't falling.
Some advanced stats from his rookie year, compared to this year:
Rebound rate: 10.8% (rookie year) to 8.5% (this year)
Assist rate: 9.1% to 5.1%
Turnover rate: 11% to 14.5%
Steal rate: 1.0% to 0.3% |
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55
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuz was kept over Hart, not over BI. Stop with the nonsense. |
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Carushow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| He is noticeably being abused by teams on defense and his erratic offensive output doesn't really compensate for that. He looks lost to me on both ends most of the time, contaminating the team effort to a degree whenever he is on the floor. |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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He was getting into a grove then hurt his eye. He has been eratic since. He'll be fine patience.
What is exposed is the lack of other options. Jared Dudley is the only other forward and that is a bit of a reach. Glaring hole when they put this current roster together almost if they already knew they had Iggy locked up. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| He will have a $10.68 million cap hold 19 months from now. On his current track, is he going to be deserving of a contract with a first year salary of $11 million? |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| cthroatgtr wrote: | He was getting into a grove then hurt his eye. He has been eratic since. He'll be fine patience.
What is exposed is the lack of other options. Jared Dudley is the only other forward and that is a bit of a reach. Glaring hole when they put this current roster together almost if they already knew they had Iggy locked up. |
And then he twisted his ankle.
I don’t think he has had a full week of being 100% yet.
Came back from not playing since August on 11/1. Got poked in the eye on the 19th. Wore goggles for a few games. Sprained his ankle on 11/29.
No training camp. No preseason. I rarely relentlessly defend any player and this includes Kuz but there is a context here that should be considered |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | He will have a $10.68 million cap hold 19 months from now. On his current track, is he going to be deserving of a contract with a first year salary of $11 million? |
I'd say right now he is earning exactly his current contract. |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22841
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | There is a reason NOLA didn't want him. |
but they did
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840786-lakers-trade-rumors-pelicans-want-kyle-kuzma-included-in-anthony-davis-package
Tania Ganguli and Brad Turner of the Los Angeles Times reported the Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma as part of any Davis package, while the Lakers are hesitant to move him.
Report: Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma most among all Lakers prospects"The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram or Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.
Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most."
They got lucky that the Lakers picked Kuzma to keep cause he was cheaper than Ingram... cause they got Ingram right before he took off, and the Lakers kept Kuzma after he'd already landed. |
Of course they wanted him. If the Lakers offered to throw him in, they would have taken it.
There was never an Ingram/Kuz choice is the point no matter how hard we stomp our feet.
There’s also the source to consider. |
My only concern was if they were too transparent in preferring Kuz. If that's who you prefer, you keep that a secret and you negotiate as if that's not your top choice to keep. Then maybe you don't have to give an extra future pick or swap. If Griffin read the Lakers like an open booked, he too, can pretend he preferred Kuzma, so now the Lakers have to throw in sweeteners to keep Kuz.
My gut just tells me we got schooled. We spilled all our intentions and tells during the trade deadline of 2019. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Beast!!! wrote: | | Kuz is looking like those high volume scorers on a bad team that cant make it on a good team unfortunately. |
Tony Campbell?
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non-player zealot
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | Kuzma is the same guy he's been since he got here. Difference is, he used to get 15-20 shots a game, so even when he only hit 30% of them, he still had double digit scoring and to the undiscerning eye, he looked like he was producing. Now he's only getting 8 to 10 shots a game and 30% on that volume isn't as beneficial to the counting stats.
Problem is, as ever, that when the shot isn't flaling, he isn't impacting the game in any way. People crapped on Lonzo when he wasn't hitting his 3s, but he was at least getting grabbing boards, playing hounding defense, getting steals/deflections and moving the ball. Kuzma doesn't defend, doesn't creat for others, doesn't grab boards, nothing. He's a one-dimensional player...sometimes. All too often he is a non-dimensional player. He's had more hairstyles than double digit scoring games. Becomes increasinlgy laughable our FO "fought" to keep Kuzma out of the AD trade. |
Haha at hairstyles. He's a goofball.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | There is a reason NOLA didn't want him. |
but they did
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840786-lakers-trade-rumors-pelicans-want-kyle-kuzma-included-in-anthony-davis-package
Tania Ganguli and Brad Turner of the Los Angeles Times reported the Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma as part of any Davis package, while the Lakers are hesitant to move him.
Report: Pelicans want Kyle Kuzma most among all Lakers prospects"The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram or Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.
Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most."
They got lucky that the Lakers picked Kuzma to keep cause he was cheaper than Ingram... cause they got Ingram right before he took off, and the Lakers kept Kuzma after he'd already landed. |
Of course they wanted him. If the Lakers offered to throw him in, they would have taken it.
There was never an Ingram/Kuz choice is the point no matter how hard we stomp our feet.
There’s also the source to consider. |
My only concern was if they were too transparent in preferring Kuz. If that's who you prefer, you keep that a secret and you negotiate as if that's not your top choice to keep. Then maybe you don't have to give an extra future pick or swap. If Griffin read the Lakers like an open booked, he too, can pretend he preferred Kuzma, so now the Lakers have to throw in sweeteners to keep Kuz.
My gut just tells me we got schooled. We spilled all our intentions and tells during the trade deadline of 2019. |
This makes no sense. How did we get schooled?
What’s the piece you would NOT have given up for AD? |
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