Kuzma and Rondo (Defensive Holes)
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leking006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:05 am    Post subject: Kuzma and Rondo (Defensive Holes)

Can the Lakers coaching staff find a way to not let Rondo and Kuzma on the floor at the same time?

When both of them is on the floor the Lakers defense suffered alot.

Besides Rondo's strength is setting up a big man. He seldomly set up Kuz for an open 3.

Just let Rondo play together with a big man while insert Kuzma when Lebron is on the court.

If they will keep this kind of rotation, it might cost them a series. Just like during Lebron's 2017 finals, where Lue put Deron Williams and Kyrie at the same time. Both a defensive hole, that's why they have a hard time stopping KD. Lue insisted on using it the rest of.the series without adjustments. Hoping it will not happened here again.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject:

It’s weird because Rondo used to be a lockdown defender.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject:

Rondo is old. He is what he is, which is why he shouldn’t really get more than one shift.

Kuzma has no excuse at 24 years old.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Rondo is old. He is what he is, which is why he shouldn’t really get more than one shift.

Kuzma has no excuse at 24 years old.


I'd like to see Kuzma turn into something like a Lamar Odom, without the drugs and the kardashians. Kuz could improve his defense by working on his positioning and bending his knees more. He stands too erect and his foot positioning doesn't allow for him to readjust quick enough when his opponent cuts or initiates a drive. What then happens is that either his opponent blows past him, or he pushes his body into the player, and he gets the foul called on him. Kuz's issues on defense can be corrected, I believe. He has the quickness and length.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Rondo is old. He is what he is, which is why he shouldn’t really get more than one shift.

Kuzma has no excuse at 24 years old.


I'd like to see Kuzma turn into something like a Lamar Odom, without the drugs and the kardashians. Kuz could improve his defense by working on his positioning and bending his knees more. He stands too erect and his foot positioning doesn't allow for him to readjust quick enough when his opponent cuts or initiates a drive. What then happens is that either his opponent blows past him, or he pushes his body into the player, and he gets the foul called on him. Kuz's issues on defense can be corrected, I believe. He has the quickness and length.


It would be nice but Kuz is a stiff compared to Odom. Completely different body types. Odom was longer and could give you 2 or 3 consecutive jumps for a rebound. His radius was huge, which made him an underrated defender able to guard 3 positions.

Kuz only impacts the space he's standing in, has a small radius and doesn't give you multiple efforts. One swipe at the ball and that's about it. He just doesn't have the physical tools or the motor that Lamar had. That can't be fixed unfortunately. We just need Kuz to be the best Kuz he can be. He still has a long way to go.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject:

Quote:
When rondo was on the court yesterday the Lakers were a NetRTG of -43.9 in 18 minutes.


Quote:
For comparisons sake, when AC played they were a +13


Quote:
AD and Alex Caruso were a +16.3 in the 19 minutes they played together.


https://twitter.com/mergechristian/status/1201559631060815877?s=21


Edit:

Quote:
When Lebron and Rondo were on the court together they were a -52 in 12 minutes on the court together.


Sensing a common denominator with these ridiculous net negative ratings in compressed minutes?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
troy wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Rondo is old. He is what he is, which is why he shouldn’t really get more than one shift.

Kuzma has no excuse at 24 years old.


I'd like to see Kuzma turn into something like a Lamar Odom, without the drugs and the kardashians. Kuz could improve his defense by working on his positioning and bending his knees more. He stands too erect and his foot positioning doesn't allow for him to readjust quick enough when his opponent cuts or initiates a drive. What then happens is that either his opponent blows past him, or he pushes his body into the player, and he gets the foul called on him. Kuz's issues on defense can be corrected, I believe. He has the quickness and length.


It would be nice but Kuz is a stiff compared to Odom. Completely different body types. Odom was longer and could give you 2 or 3 consecutive jumps for a rebound. His radius was huge, which made him an underrated defender able to guard 3 positions.

Kuz only impacts the space he's standing in, has a small radius and doesn't give you multiple efforts. One swipe at the ball and that's about it. He just doesn't have the physical tools or the motor that Lamar had. That can't be fixed unfortunately. We just need Kuz to be the best Kuz he can be. He still has a long way to go.


The problem is that the best Kuz can be seems limited in scope. We need that Odom sort of player on our team, and we especially need that 3rd option. After Lebron and AD, who do we really have that score on our team? On the Clippers, they have 5 players that can score big.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
When rondo was on the court yesterday the Lakers were a NetRTG of -43.9 in 18 minutes.


Quote:
For comparisons sake, when AC played they were a +13


Quote:
AD and Alex Caruso were a +16.3 in the 19 minutes they played together.


https://twitter.com/mergechristian/status/1201559631060815877?s=21


Edit:

Quote:
When Lebron and Rondo were on the court together they were a -52 in 12 minutes on the court together.


Sensing a common denominator with these ridiculous net negative ratings in compressed minutes?


Rondo has great moments offensively where he takes the ball out of LeBron's hands and makes life really easy for AD and Bron. Problem is on the other end, the man cant play D.

Cant wait to get Bradley back but those guard mins really should go like this:

Green (26), KCP (22)
Bradley (24), Caruso (16), Rondo (8)

Let Rondo come in with AD/Bron and just run the offensive aggressively for his short stretches.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
It’s weird because Rondo used to be a lockdown defender.



That was a long time ago. His defense started deteriorating at least five years ago, when he was still in his late 20s. Back in 2015, Rondo admittedf "I haven't played defense in a couple of years. I've been able to hide it a lot with Avery Bradley on the ball. He's helped me out, the young guy."

Lots of theories for his decline. Some say it was taking a larger role in the offense, some say it was just laziness, some say his ACL injury.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject:

Rondo is just horrible

it's kind of depressing tbh
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:03 pm    Post subject:

This thread is so sad yet so true.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

Rondo is old and done.

Kuzma is a lost cause on defense. If you watch him closely on that end, he is one of the worst defenders in the league.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject:

I’m telling you. Rondo should be at most a two shift (12-14mpg) player. In his first 6 minute shift If he doesn’t have it you don’t play him on the 2nd shift. It’s come to that.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject:

Nobody should compare Kuz to Odom to start. People I think forget how great he was during those title runs, there were nights where he looked like the best big not only on his own team but in the entire NBA. He def. wasn't always consistent but still drastically better then Kuz and could impact the game in many ways whether it was shooting, rebounding, passing and just overall great defense. If Kuz isn't sinking shots he's a huge negative on the floor almost all the time.

Rondo at least brings some nice occasional steals and good passing when the shot isn't falling even though I agree 100% he should be playing very limited minutes and i'd love to keep him on the bench as a player/coach but until we get another player that can playmake he is going to continue to probably get decent minutes sadly.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma and Odom couldn’t be any different.

Odom couldn’t shoot from the perimeter, prone to charges, disappeared for stretches of a game, and many of his rebounds were his own missed layups. Mychal Thompson syndrome. Odom offered no resistance as a post defender either, bums like Melvin Ely feasted.

Kuzma can shoot from the perimeter and has the foot speed to stay in front of guard penetration on defense. It’s really just his footwork that’s the issue. He never gets in a defensive stance. He’s always on his heels. Jason Kidd needs to work with him!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

this is so frustrating to see because its something any educated observer seen coming miles away... Rondo is a HUGE net negative player at this point in his career. He was one of the worst players in the league last year and now has a year more wear and tear on him so ofcourse he's going to look even worse.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject:

sieves, I tell you! SIEVES!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
It’s weird because Rondo used to be a lockdown defender.



That was a long time ago. His defense started deteriorating at least five years ago, when he was still in his late 20s. Back in 2015, Rondo admittedf "I haven't played defense in a couple of years. I've been able to hide it a lot with Avery Bradley on the ball. He's helped me out, the young guy."

Lots of theories for his decline. Some say it was taking a larger role in the offense, some say it was just laziness, some say his ACL injury.


Plus one can take more risks with a frontcourt of KG and Perkins on patrol should you miss a switch or not fight through a screen.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Kuzma and Odom couldn’t be any different.

Odom couldn’t shoot from the perimeter, prone to charges, disappeared for stretches of a game, and many of his rebounds were his own missed layups. Mychal Thompson syndrome. Odom offered no resistance as a post defender either, bums like Melvin Ely feasted.

Kuzma can shoot from the perimeter and has the foot speed to stay in front of guard penetration on defense. It’s really just his footwork that’s the issue. He never gets in a defensive stance. He’s always on his heels. Jason Kidd needs to work with him!


kuz and odom are not alike, yes, but we still need an odom-like player to advance to ring contention, and we don't have one. Kuz would be the closest we have, but he's not developing a skill set simliar to what odum had.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
When rondo was on the court yesterday the Lakers were a NetRTG of -43.9 in 18 minutes.


Quote:
For comparisons sake, when AC played they were a +13


Quote:
AD and Alex Caruso were a +16.3 in the 19 minutes they played together.


https://twitter.com/mergechristian/status/1201559631060815877?s=21


Edit:

Quote:
When Lebron and Rondo were on the court together they were a -52 in 12 minutes on the court together.


Sensing a common denominator with these ridiculous net negative ratings in compressed minutes?


Don't the Lakers have an analytics staff that shows figures like these to the coaches?


Last edited by lakersfan32 on Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma was bad yesterday, but he’s had games this season where he’s looked solid on defense. Just need to hope we get more of those games than what happened yesterday.
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leking006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject:

Did the Lakers' defensive rating started to go down when Kuzma and Rondo returned from injury? I hope there's a data on this.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
Did the Lakers' defensive rating started to go down when Kuzma and Rondo returned from injury? I hope there's a data on this.


You don’t need data to know that answer.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:50 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
It’s weird because Rondo used to be a lockdown defender.



That was a long time ago. His defense started deteriorating at least five years ago, when he was still in his late 20s. Back in 2015, Rondo admittedf "I haven't played defense in a couple of years. I've been able to hide it a lot with Avery Bradley on the ball. He's helped me out, the young guy."

Lots of theories for his decline. Some say it was taking a larger role in the offense, some say it was just laziness, some say his ACL injury.


The ACL would be most of the reason imo. Expect the same thing to happen with Klay
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Rondo has the 4th worst defensive rating for pgs (I set it for 190 minutes minimum) on 538's RAPTOR.

He is IT level bad, but w/o the scoring....

LEGIT CANCER

He should play ZERO minutes the rest of the year

(bleep) the "playmaking" he brings.

For now, rather have Cook's spacing or Caruso's defense and heart.

Backup pg is maybe the team's biggest need it seems like. Tied with a defensive 3/4
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