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JamaalWilkes
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 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:10 am Post subject: Where does Kuzma fit in on this team? |
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| He seems o have a hard to getting in the flow of offense. In the past, he felt free to be aggressive and even take over some games. Now, it seems he's in such a deferential role that he's not getting opportunities to do what makes him special. |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Different coaches, styles, and most of all, the arrival of AD makes changing style essential with Lebron at the PG position to milk the best of AD.
Is he the only one struggling? Caruso, Rondo and Dwight have been the more valuable bench players. Caruso, being the only non veteran, seems to be able to play and adapt at any style of coaching.
I believe he is subject to trade if he cannot adjust quickly.
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| I don’t see a big issue. He’s fitting in as a decent role player. He’s been a guy who can chip in low double digit scoring fairly regularly, with the occasional hot streak every few games where he has a big quarter/half/game that gives us a needed boost. It’s not what he was hyping himself up to be, and it’s not what we were hoping, but he’s been working at it and has contributed in several wins with key shots. He’s overall been a fairly decent defender as well. If he wants to be the third guy, he needs to prove he deserves that role, but even if he doesn’t if he can be a threat from range and make the occasional dive to give Lebron a target while also not being a huge negative on defense, I’ll take that for his contract. And if he does figure it out, that’s a huge bonus for us. |
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Buck32
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Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 7328
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:04 am Post subject: |
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Last year:
- He had more freedom offensively because LBJ was uninterested and BI and LB when healthy had to take care of ball distribution.
- He had the green light from Luke.
This season:
- AD and LBJ are the offense.
- Missed time due to injuries.
- I think the criticism about him being a bad defender and one dimensional player got to him and he's trying to show he can play "the right way". Which in turn leads to him over-thinking on the offense.
It's still early and they still have win a ring toegether, but AD+LBJ are approaching Shaq-Kobe status in terms of dominance and working as a duo. I don't remember any young player breaking out during the Shaq/Kobe days, not Devean George, not Brian Cook, not Medevendenko. It was always Shaq and/or Kobe, plus role players who were expected to defend and hit open shots. I think Kuz is having a difficult time adjusting to such a role, certainly after being one of the team's top scorers his first 2 years.
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Buck32 wrote: | Last year:
- He had more freedom offensively because LBJ was uninterested and BI and LB when healthy had to take care of ball distribution.
- He had the green light from Luke.
This season:
- AD and LBJ are the offense.
- Missed time due to injuries.
- I think the criticism about him being a bad defender and one dimensional player got to him and he's trying to show he can play "the right way". Which in turn leads to him over-thinking on the offense.
It's still early and they still have win a ring toegether, but AD+LBJ are approaching Shaq-Kobe status in terms of dominance and working as a duo. I don't remember any young player breaking out during the Shaq/Kobe days, not Devean George, not Brian Cook, not Medevendenko. It was always Shaq and/or Kobe, plus role players who were expected to defend and hit open shots. I think Kuz is having a difficult time adjusting to such a role, certainly after being one of the team's top scorers his first 2 years. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11841
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:30 am Post subject: |
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On the bench
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:03 am Post subject: |
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One thing I have noticed is that he is starting to hit the pull up jumper at the mid-range off a Dwight Howard/big man screen, quite consistently. Think he made it twice in a row last game, and then yesterday again. That and the corner 3 are his weapons in the offense.
Look he's not great at his role right now, but he is a lot better than some realize. The way people talk sometimes about him, you would think he is Quinn Cook or Troy Daniels. He is a talented player and he's a bonus. We don't even need him to be a star, but he has the potential to be a star role player for us off the bench if he finds a few spots in the offense.
All I want from Kuzma this season is to hit and take those corner 3s, and take a few good shots in the offense. Defensively to give a good effort. Keep improving on D. We're fortunate enough that we don't need him to score 15 points a night as much as we need him to defend and hit the corner 3s. |
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Killakobe81
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Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1604
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | I don’t see a big issue. He’s fitting in as a decent role player. He’s been a guy who can chip in low double digit scoring fairly regularly, with the occasional hot streak every few games where he has a big quarter/half/game that gives us a needed boost. It’s not what he was hyping himself up to be, and it’s not what we were hoping, but he’s been working at it and has contributed in several wins with key shots. He’s overall been a fairly decent defender as well. If he wants to be the third guy, he needs to prove he deserves that role, but even if he doesn’t if he can be a threat from range and make the occasional dive to give Lebron a target while also not being a huge negative on defense, I’ll take that for his contract. And if he does figure it out, that’s a huge bonus for us. |
This. I don't get the impatience with Kuzma. Two weeks ago, you guys wanted KCP banished from the league. Despite forcing a few shots and the dumb traveling violation every other game Kyle has been fine. We only have played a little over 20 games and Kuzma hasn't been healthy for at least 10 of those. This reminds me of the Rockets/Pistons trade of Horry for Elliott... Don't remember that? well the trade was voided because Sean failed his physical. No way Rox win two chips without big Shot Rob. Now, Kuzma will never be the defender prime Horry was but he has higher offensive upside and is a better ball handler... If we are winning why can't we give the kid more time to figure it out?
Last edited by Killakobe81 on Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Killakobe81 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I don’t see a big issue. He’s fitting in as a decent role player. He’s been a guy who can chip in low double digit scoring fairly regularly, with the occasional hot streak every few games where he has a big quarter/half/game that gives us a needed boost. It’s not what he was hyping himself up to be, and it’s not what we were hoping, but he’s been working at it and has contributed in several wins with key shots. He’s overall been a fairly decent defender as well. If he wants to be the third guy, he needs to prove he deserves that role, but even if he doesn’t if he can be a threat from range and make the occasional dive to give Lebron a target while also not being a huge negative on defense, I’ll take that for his contract. And if he does figure it out, that’s a huge bonus for us. |
This. I don't get the impatience with Kuzma. Two weeks ago, you guys wanted KCP banished from the league. Despite forcing a few shots and the dumb traveling violation every other game Kyle has been fine. We only have played a little over 20 games and Kuzma hasn't been healthy for at least 10 of those. This reminds me of the Rockets/Pistons trade of Horry for Elliott... Don't remember that well the trade wax voided because Sean failed his physical. No way Rox win two chips without big Shot Rob. Now, Kuzma will never be the defender prime Horry was but he has higher offensive upside and is a better ball handler... If we are winning why can't we give the kid more time to figure it out? |
Also This. I will add, then when we load manage Lebron or AD, who will start?? Dudley?? |
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Sojo
Star Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 2075
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | One thing I have noticed is that he is starting to hit the pull up jumper at the mid-range off a Dwight Howard/big man screen, quite consistently. Think he made it twice in a row last game, and then yesterday again. That and the corner 3 are his weapons in the offense.
Look he's not great at his role right now, but he is a lot better than some realize. The way people talk sometimes about him, you would think he is Quinn Cook or Troy Daniels. He is a talented player and he's a bonus. We don't even need him to be a star, but he has the potential to be a star role player for us off the bench if he finds a few spots in the offense.
All I want from Kuzma this season is to hit and take those corner 3s, and take a few good shots in the offense. Defensively to give a good effort. Keep improving on D. We're fortunate enough that we don't need him to score 15 points a night as much as we need him to defend and hit the corner 3s. |
People are still acting like he's the same defender from a year ago. So far, as long as he doesn't have a significantly bigger guy to defend, his defense has actually been really good. One mistake last night and everything else was well contended (even if they guy made the tough shot). People "feel" this game way too much and need to notice the improvements.
His offense needs to come though. If the big two aren't out on the court he needs to either take it upon himself (or have Vogel dictate it) that he's the second option and get cooking. Best way for him to approach. With the big two be the 3 in the corner or clean up man. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:55 am Post subject: |
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2014-18: We need to be patient and let the YUTES play it out and figure it out.
2019: Kuz has 15 games total to figure it out or he's gone.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:59 am Post subject: |
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How he fits in depends on how we as a team want him to fit in.
If you want a third option on offense (and we should imo), you gotta run some plays for them.
If you want a role player, then you don’t and you let them get whatever comes at whatever time.
Me? I think we should run some plays for Kuz that cater to his top strengths (mainly those curl cuts). |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 2014-18: We need to be patient and let the YUTES play it out and figure it out.
2019: Kuz has 15 games total to figure it out or he's gone. |
 guilty
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Carushow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Where does Kuzma fit in on this team? |
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| JamaalWilkes wrote: | | Where does Kuzma fit in on this team? |
No. |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 2014-18: We need to be patient and let the YUTES play it out and figure it out.
2019: Kuz has 15 games total to figure it out or he's gone. |
Yutes were all one and done and are already better than Kuz at younger age. Kuz is probably 3rd most important bench player at this point behind AC and Dwight. THT and Koustas will leap over him by mid next year too |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| PayasoLoco wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 2014-18: We need to be patient and let the YUTES play it out and figure it out.
2019: Kuz has 15 games total to figure it out or he's gone. |
Yutes were all one and done and are already better than Kuz at younger age. Kuz is probably 3rd most important bench player at this point behind AC and Dwight. THT and Koustas will leap over him by mid next year too |
Kuz is 2 years older than Lonzo.
And if he's in a lesser role, what's the rush to ship him out?
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PayasoLoco wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 2014-18: We need to be patient and let the YUTES play it out and figure it out.
2019: Kuz has 15 games total to figure it out or he's gone. |
Yutes were all one and done and are already better than Kuz at younger age. Kuz is probably 3rd most important bench player at this point behind AC and Dwight. THT and Koustas will leap over him by mid next year too |
Kuz is 2 years older than Lonzo.
And if he's in a lesser role, what's the rush to ship him out? |
That way we can spend his $1.9M on another Troy Daniels. |
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markjay
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3924
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Killakobe81 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I don’t see a big issue. He’s fitting in as a decent role player. He’s been a guy who can chip in low double digit scoring fairly regularly, with the occasional hot streak every few games where he has a big quarter/half/game that gives us a needed boost. It’s not what he was hyping himself up to be, and it’s not what we were hoping, but he’s been working at it and has contributed in several wins with key shots. He’s overall been a fairly decent defender as well. If he wants to be the third guy, he needs to prove he deserves that role, but even if he doesn’t if he can be a threat from range and make the occasional dive to give Lebron a target while also not being a huge negative on defense, I’ll take that for his contract. And if he does figure it out, that’s a huge bonus for us. |
This. I don't get the impatience with Kuzma. Two weeks ago, you guys wanted KCP banished from the league. Despite forcing a few shots and the dumb traveling violation every other game Kyle has been fine. We only have played a little over 20 games and Kuzma hasn't been healthy for at least 10 of those. This reminds me of the Rockets/Pistons trade of Horry for Elliott... Don't remember that? well the trade was voided because Sean failed his physical. No way Rox win two chips without big Shot Rob. Now, Kuzma will never be the defender prime Horry was but he has higher offensive upside and is a better ball handler... If we are winning why can't we give the kid more time to figure it out? |
I wish I could +1 this a hundred times. Kuz has dealt with 3 injuries this year so far and appears to have a positive attitude and is working hard for the team. Our team is 21-3 and he has helped with a couple of those victories. As the man says, give him some time! |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| honestly, he just needs to have a good game once in a while and we're fine. same goes for kcp green bradley troy caruso. ad and lbj need to play well every game, ad more so than lbj. the others just need to have a rotation of good games. its been happening for a while now, since rondo came back basically, and it works out just fine. |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29074
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | honestly, he just needs to have a good game once in a while and we're fine. same goes for kcp green bradley troy caruso. ad and lbj need to play well every game, ad more so than lbj. the others just need to have a rotation of good games. its been happening for a while now, since rondo came back basically, and it works out just fine. |
Is it fine with him or does he want Kuzmania to come back? Does he want all those cheers Caruso gets when he enters the game? Remember when Staples was rung with KUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZ when he entered the game? Now you barely notice when he enters. Is he happy with his role or is it stuck in his head that he's supposed to be "that third star."
And if that's what he wants, and that's what his perceived value around the league is (although trending downward), are we getting maximum value out of a guy that should just be a role player, isn't happy with that, and isn't even ideally suited toward it (i.e., he doesn't impact the game in other ways that a role player does if they're not scoring). I know some are happy if he has a 20 point game once every 4-5 games, but how about someone who impacts the game...EVERY game?
This isn't a question of "patience" or needing more than 15 games. His efficiency is fine. It's up from last year. About where it was his rookie year. But he's not gonna start getting 15 shots a game now. Those days are gone. |
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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8351
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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As the season goes on we'll need Kuz to be better and more aggressive on offense. We're going to start playing some good and great defensive teams, and it won't be easy for us to score 120+ like it has been.
One thing he needs to do is run the floor hard and get easy buckets in transition. His first two years he excelled at that and was a strong finisher, throwing down nasty dunks on the break.
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | honestly, he just needs to have a good game once in a while and we're fine. same goes for kcp green bradley troy caruso. ad and lbj need to play well every game, ad more so than lbj. the others just need to have a rotation of good games. its been happening for a while now, since rondo came back basically, and it works out just fine. |
Is it fine with him or does he want Kuzmania to come back? Does he want all those cheers Caruso gets when he enters the game? Remember when Staples was rung with KUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZ when he entered the game? Now you barely notice when he enters. Is he happy with his role or is it stuck in his head that he's supposed to be "that third star."
And if that's what he wants, and that's what his perceived value around the league is (although trending downward), are we getting maximum value out of a guy that should just be a role player, isn't happy with that, and isn't even ideally suited toward it (i.e., he doesn't impact the game in other ways that a role player does if they're not scoring). I know some are happy if he has a 20 point game once every 4-5 games, but how about someone who impacts the game...EVERY game?
This isn't a question of "patience" or needing more than 15 games. His efficiency is fine. It's up from last year. About where it was his rookie year. But he's not gonna start getting 15 shots a game now. Those days are gone. |
kuzmania was sooooooooooo riduclous! he made like a few threes and was hot for a month or two, and our fans were so desperate from years of tanking they were just salivating at this kuzma guy and perhaps he was the steal of the draft. and that was the last time kuz was great. it was literally just the first 2 months of his career. after that it has been super average. he used to have one of the best floaters in the game, ill give you that.
clarkson was always better. |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | honestly, he just needs to have a good game once in a while and we're fine. same goes for kcp green bradley troy caruso. ad and lbj need to play well every game, ad more so than lbj. the others just need to have a rotation of good games. its been happening for a while now, since rondo came back basically, and it works out just fine. |
Is it fine with him or does he want Kuzmania to come back? Does he want all those cheers Caruso gets when he enters the game? Remember when Staples was rung with KUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZ when he entered the game? Now you barely notice when he enters. Is he happy with his role or is it stuck in his head that he's supposed to be "that third star."
And if that's what he wants, and that's what his perceived value around the league is (although trending downward), are we getting maximum value out of a guy that should just be a role player, isn't happy with that, and isn't even ideally suited toward it (i.e., he doesn't impact the game in other ways that a role player does if they're not scoring). I know some are happy if he has a 20 point game once every 4-5 games, but how about someone who impacts the game...EVERY game?
This isn't a question of "patience" or needing more than 15 games. His efficiency is fine. It's up from last year. About where it was his rookie year. But he's not gonna start getting 15 shots a game now. Those days are gone. |
kuzmania was sooooooooooo riduclous! he made like a few threes and was hot for a month or two, and our fans were so desperate from years of tanking they were just salivating at this kuzma guy and perhaps he was the steal of the draft. and that was the last time kuz was great. it was literally just the first 2 months of his career. after that it has been super average. he used to have one of the best floaters in the game, ill give you that.
clarkson was always better. |
Clarkson … 13 million dollars for that production?
No thanks |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39537
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think he is really much of a factor in the grand scheme of things. Guys like Caruso, Howard, Bradley, Rondo, KCP, Mcgee will be far more important over the season and into the playoffs. If he plays better great, if he doesn't no big deal. |
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cthroatgtr
Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| He was playing well until he hurt his eye. Hasn't been the same since. Let's see if that turns around in the next few games. |
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